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Here on HPC there are lots of people who are deeply immersed in the issues surrounding affordability of housing.

For us it is easy to expect that these views are widely held. Disappointingly I find often that they are not. Sure, people feel that something isn't right but do they really care yet.

I'm on the tube and I look around the crowded train and I literally do not expect any of my fellow passengers to be thinking about this. I expect many to be smugly counting up their HPI gains. I expect a few to be worried about paying the rent. But do many people even realise this is an issue and what the feck it means to their lives.

I have been surprised at the number of angry folks commenting on articles we link to and they seem pretty well informed. are these just HPCers?

In day to day life I just don't meet that many people, no, I think I have only ever met one person that even comes close to understanding this stuff and giving a s**t.

What's it like for you? How many people do you know that think in this way? Are we really such a rare breed of outsider?

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What's it like for you? How many people do you know that think in this way? Are we really such a rare breed of outsider?

Yes. A lot of my peers are smart people too (many smarter than me), yet they do not connect the dots– or they have their fingers in their ears. I think most people don't even really look at the total price– as long as they can meet the monthly repayments...

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I've only ever met one other person who understands. He is a gold bug, who talks a lot about the baltic dry index. He was absolutely amazed that I knew what he was talking about and could converse with him on a level footing.

Everybody else thought he was totally nuts mental! :lol:

.... What do they think about me? :unsure:

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We're a small minority.

Most people still talk of "the ladder". Young and old

:wacko:

It's BLOODY scary isn't it!???

I just cannot believe how stupid people are... - these are supposedly "intelligent" people :blink:B)

Edited by eric pebble

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It's BLOODY scary isn't it!???

I just cannot believe how stupid people are... - these are supposedly "intelligent" people :blink:B)

Paraphrasing Martin Amis: Countries go mad all the time. Sit in the corner rocking on their heels, spouting gibberish. Or spend all their days chasing phantoms.

The Germans went mad for a while, as did the Italians. The Russians were certifiable for years.

Now it's our turn.

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Paraphrasing Martin Amis: Countries go mad all the time. Sit in the corner rocking on their heels, spouting gibberish. Or spend all their days chasing phantoms.

Ahh, zugzwang - now I know where you got your username from. Money, am I right?

Edited by canbuywontbuy

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Once you start to question the madness of house prices, you inevitably start to question the madness of a lot of other aspects of modern life & lets face it most people don't want to go down that route as its far easier to go with the flow to work as hard as possible to earn as much as possible to keep up with the Joneses & appear "successful".

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I guess we are a self selecting group which has migrated over time to this forum exactly because of our views. In my wider circle of friends workmates and acquaintances there are very few people who appear to be openly aware of the wider economic situation. When issues come up I pretty much just nod along in agreement.

I don't feel it is my job to try and change peoples world view. I imagine it will be the people that are currently disaffected the most by our version of Capitalism will go through the same journey I have, before they too will gain a better understanding of just why it is that things arent working for them.

Whenever I have pointed out someone something, like for example how fractional reserve banking works the cognitive dissonance was almost overwhelming the poor fellow. In hindsight it is probably better to let people just find out for themselves. Ignorance is bliss, I'm not sure even a limited grasp of the situation like I have is particularly helpful, if anything it makes you feel even more helpless.

+1. The economic literacy on this forum, despite differing viewpoints, is way above the grasp of most people I have come across in my experience. I don't worry for many on here, it seems to be a board of independent thinkers (from all walks of life) who are carving out their own path. I generally have to resist "biting" on certain topics but the temptation to jump in I find is waning with time.

I personally have 1 friend who isn't particularly knowledgeable in financial affairs but takes a genuine interest and wants to learn more. That aside, I have only stumbled across a single work colleague (priced out of the market in the SE) who could engage with the sort of topics we do on here.

And yes, even moderate "enlightenment" in the areas of discussion on this board is not something which fills you with much hope for the future. It does, however, encourage personal responsibility in my view. There is so much information provided by members here free of charge on stocks, gold, interest rates, tax planning etc. - overall I am glad I found this refuge!

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Guest

Here on HPC there are lots of people who are deeply immersed in the issues surrounding affordability of housing.

[...]

Are we really such a rare breed of outsider?

The maddest 20% of people believe all the Bullsh*t about HPI forever

The middle 79% are on autopilot, like zombies ... recycle the same BS but couldn't defend it with any real conviction

The sane 1% - people like us - are aware of the BS and resist it

Bubbles depend on MASS hysteria!

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I know 3 other people (plus my parents) who are what I would consider economically literate, and who wouldn't glaze over on a discussion of banking, prices being set aat margins, interest only timebombs, buy to let parasites and are willing to discuss the ethics of finance.

With everyone else I now tend to leave it. Most have Stockholm syndrome, and I think would rather be told they have a terminal illness than that the price of their house could drop.

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If advertising doesnt work, why do corporations spend BILLIONS on it ?

People are being manipulated at every turn now.

It's legal and they have free choice, to a point.

Look at the BBC license free....FREE CHOICE....to the point when they start not getting "enough".

Look at pensions....FREE CHOICE...till the men in the city dont get "enough".

Look at houses...FREE CHOICE....except, everyone needs a basic shelter...

It's the American dream begin forced on the rightmost state of their empire :lol:

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Ive only recently joined this forum but have learned a lot from reading posts over the last year. Unfortunately it's definitely a minority opinion on here. Had to grit my teeth at work today when the boss decided interests rates had to stay this low or it would become too difficult for him to pay the mortgage on his house in didsbury. It seems the british are happy to treat housing as a speculative asset until they might lose money on it then it suddenly isnt.

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Unless your boss is on the monetary policy committee I wouldn't worry about it!

Get the young involved (really young, like sixth formers and undergraduates). I think most don't think too much about the cost of housing until quite well into their 20s. It makes sense to house-share when starting work, and many don't think much about buying (settling down etc.) until in a serious relationship (not very many in early 20s, more in late 20s). So I think many in early 20s don't realise the seriousness of the problem.

Teenagers and students are getting angry about the fees and student loans, so with the right approach it ought to be possible to get them as

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It's hugely ironic to me that so many people spend their lives obsessing about money and at the same time have an almost supernatural lack of curiosity about the actual mechanics of money creation itself.

Try telling most people that banks create loans from thin air and they will dismiss you as a crank- because they know with absolute certainty that every bank loan is someone else's savings- this despite the fact that they also know that their savings never for a moment at risk of being lent out to anyone ever.

It's not even that people don't know this stuff- it's that they don't know they don't know this stuff- money to them is as natural a phenomena as rain and like rain it's existence is completely taken for granted. I know this because until I stumbled on this site I was one of those people.

Even the near collapse of the financial system in 2008 barely disturbed their slumber. In a way it's easy to see why the banksters do what they do- the temptation to game the system must be near overwhelming given the utter ignorance of the great unwashed as to how the system works.

Case in point- every month the Governor of the Bank of England declares that his avowed intention is to create 2% inflation- this is his 'target'. So the man running the nations bank is openly stating his intention to devalue everyone' money by 2% a year and yet the assembled gaggle of financial reporters in the room accept this without demur- no one questions it or even ask's why 2%, why not 3 or 5%?

As for the great unwashed those who even know who Mark Carney is are probably looked on by their peers as monetary cranks whose time would be much better spent speculating on the likely winner of Strictly come Dancing.

If a popular revolt against the financial criminal class is required to save us then I regret to say that we are totally f*cked because it will never happen.

Edited by wonderpup

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It's hugely ironic to me that so many people spend their lives obsessing about money and at the same time have an almost supernatural lack of curiosity about the actual mechanics of money creation itself.

..//..

If a popular revolt against the financial criminal class is required to save us then I regret to say that we are totally f*cked because it will never happen.

'king depressing.

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We are in deflation folks, the bankers are not winning. Adverts still run, but they don`t work like they used to, IMO, but the VI`s don`t know what else to do, again IMO. I often have conversations in the real world about things a lot more "far out" than the majority of stuff discussed on here, and many people are open and knowledgeable on the subjects. Plenty of people know that the whole financial system is a scam and is ready to blow, but they have to get on and do the best they can, and sure there are plenty on auto-pilot too, but yes I will admit that discussing it online every day is definitely a minority group.... :lol:

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I work in the public sector. What is absolutely fascinating, is that those who are 45+, who will retire on good pensions and have freehold property bought at a relatively cheap time, are the very people who sound like you guys when it comes to House prices.

They know the game is rigged, it's screwed up but they feel they are viewed as nutters as many of these sane folk attribute the 118-BTL view as being the dominant view and so they feel less free to divulge their opinion on the matter.

To OP- On the tube? oh you'll be surprised how many like myself wince and laugh manically at the metro/evening standard property porn. Hilarious.

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Yes. A lot of my peers are smart people too (many smarter than me), yet they do not connect the dots– or they have their fingers in their ears. I think most people don't even really look at the total price– as long as they can meet the monthly repayments...

Well then who's the bigger idiot..

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It's hugely ironic to me that so many people spend their lives obsessing about money and at the same time have an almost supernatural lack of curiosity about the actual mechanics of money creation itself.

Try telling most people that banks create loans from thin air and they will dismiss you as a crank- because they know with absolute certainty that every bank loan is someone else's savings- this despite the fact that they also know that their savings never for a moment at risk of being lent out to anyone ever.

It's not even that people don't know this stuff- it's that they don't know they don't know this stuff- money to them is as natural a phenomena as rain and like rain it's existence is completely taken for granted. I know this because until I stumbled on this site I was one of those people.

Even the near collapse of the financial system in 2008 barely disturbed their slumber. In a way it's easy to see why the banksters do what they do- the temptation to game the system must be near overwhelming given the utter ignorance of the great unwashed as to how the system works.

Case in point- every month the Governor of the Bank of England declares that his avowed intention is to create 2% inflation- this is his 'target'. So the man running the nations bank is openly stating his intention to devalue everyone' money by 2% a year and yet the assembled gaggle of financial reporters in the room accept this without demur- no one questions it or even ask's why 2%, why not 3 or 5%?

As for the great unwashed those who even know who Mark Carney is are probably looked on by their peers as monetary cranks whose time would be much better spent speculating on the likely winner of Strictly come Dancing.

If a popular revolt against the financial criminal class is required to save us then I regret to say that we are totally f*cked because it will never happen.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning".

Henry Ford

I believe it was around 1912 he said this. 104 years on and nothing has changed. Sadly I agree with you and it is bloody depressing if you dwell on it too long. During my Economics A level (mid 90's) and Business Studies degree (late 90's) the only way in which globalisation was portrayed was as an absolute positive and benefit to all. Never a counter argument or alternative view given. I then worked in manufacturing supply chains on an international level and saw the damage it was doing to the west, which was completely the opposite of what I'd been brainwashed into believing (along with seeing house prices rocketing against wages and wondering how the hell this could be happening). Then I found this site and some semblance of sanity was provided. Now I almost wish I remained ignorant and been one of the sheeple. We are 'taught' in school and university what suits the 1%ers and very few will ever look beyond it.

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