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Venger

Twenty Years On – The Winners And Losers Of Britain’S Property Boom

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Couldn't find this posted. If it has been, please merge with the thread.

Some should be selling up, and cashing in those fortunes imo. Especially on the BTL/Mew side.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jan/23/britain-property-boom-losers-winners-housing-market-renting

Some have been chasing to get a position, buy hpi just powered away year on year vs ability to save.

This guy seems okay vs all the others. The woman who got repoed early 90s.. such is life. Pay your mortgage or make way for someone who can pay a mortgage on it. None of the victim squad we have today for those who have paid crazy prices.

In 1996 … just a few miles away from Dagmar Noble, Ben Jones was moving into his new home, a two-bedroom Victorian terrace in central Oxford. He bought it for £80,000 with a £4,000 deposit, and has lived there ever since. Aged 50, three years ago he paid off the mortgage. The property is now worth at least £525,000.

I had been renting but decided to buy because I’m a nest builder and wanted my own home. But I wasn’t totally convinced property would be a good investment. Interest rates were high and £76,000 felt like a huge sum to borrow. When I hear how much people borrow now, it blows my mind.

An old house is a continuous project and I reckon I’ve spent about £5,000 a year maintaining and improving it. But I love living here and I just can’t believe how fortunate I’ve been.

But the money I’ve made from my property isn’t real. Everywhere in Oxford is expensive, and Oxford is where I want to live. I bought this house as a home, not as a way of making money. It would have made no difference to me if prices hadn’t gone up in the appalling way that they have.

I have a pension … money I will need to live on in my old age. The money in my pension is tangible – the money in my home is not.

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There will be few winners.....a house costs money whilst living in it, a regular, secure, guaranteed, index linked pension pays you money to live wherever you are living...."you no longer find many of those about" said the wide mouth frog.

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1996 to 2012 to pay off an £76,000 mortgage (£4,000) deposit... now ballooned in value, but at least he is appalled and doesn't have his identity wrapped up in it.

Whereas today we've got HPCers still having breakdowns for those who've signed up for £300,000+ mortgages.. innocence, just wanted a home, hpcers prey on misery etc.

All the others, including that BTLer and MEWer.

Come on winkie.. you don't even need to look at the future for winners. I get that all the time from the house price win side who still claim they've not had it easy, sat on hundreds of thousands of equity, and with empty bedrooms.

There have been winners. Multi-decade winners. All policy in the boom and in the bailout reflation winners. Different dimensions, at these prices, for renter-savers vs HPI forevers.

* edit; spelling from appauled to appalled.

Edited by Venger

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All this simplifying the imbalances down to health/friends, really makes me narky.

If Everybody Else Decides That Houses Are A Great Investment, A Problem Can Easily Develop...

Lets talk about some real best investments like:

Your health,

Your family and friends,

Your peace of mind,

Your business.

Your self generated, pro active, high value low cost education.

Expensive land and bricks are no good to anybody if in poor health, alone, fearful, not self educated and a slave to creditors......DYOR

Shouldn't this wisdom have been shouted out before the hyper-bubble? Not at the treble-peak of it.

'Forget fair non hyperbubble housing.. be grateful for the little things.'

Tucker: What kind of treasures we talking about? Like Indiana Jones Golden Island treasures? Or is it some stupid metaphorical stuff like (mocking exposition tone) "The real treasure was friendship the whole time".

-Red vs Blue

A hpcer once made a great post about it.. can't recall it fully.

Anyway it's total misdirection, vs this housing financialisation/BTL bubble.

If it is all so simples, then nothing to worry about. Go go HPI.

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Winners are people with their health and happiness. The End.

Having a reasonable degree of control over your housing situation is a contributor to both health and happiness. People who bought when it was cheap and paid off the mortgage are mostly in this situation, private renters and people with huge mortgages are mostly not.

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All this simplifying the imbalances down to health/friends, really makes me narky.

A hpcer once made a great post about it.. can't recall it fully.

Anyway it's total misdirection, vs this housing financialisation/BTL bubble.

If it is all so simples, then nothing to worry about. Go go HPI.

Actually it's been done many times over..... the peace-loving-spirituals, vs those who want more than some gruel with housing, and push back against the imbalances.

I want friends, health, and a home of my own, at a non-hyper-ponzi price, in a market where BTLing speculators have been crashed out. Don't want rental future for my family forever and S21 at any time.

Just found out from a friend that she and hubby are buying a 650k 6-bed detached Victorian house to do up. Bear with me -- it's a long story and sorry for the strong language but I have been despairing about this all morning and feeling pretty f**d off (and f***d over in general) and I just don't really know what to do with my life any more. You'll understand why I'm feeling so pissed off if you get to the end.

Now this friend graduated same time as me. Got a training job as a solicitor as did her husband-to-be (not city, just bog-standard training contracts earning around 17k starting salary in 1999). I was earning about the same in an entry level consulting/analyst post in the city. (No, bulls, even city jobs didn't pay more than that as starting wages in the late 90s unless the job was really exceptional -- even a friend who went to Goldman Sachs started on 25k at the same time).

Friend got married, bought a 2-bed newbuild flat for around 70k. I went back to university to do a PhD, never dreaming that HPI was about to take off so massively that I'd not be able to buy somewhere afterwards. It didn't even enter my head that by choosing to do postgrad study right then I would effectively be locking myself out of the property market forever. One of my reasons for doing so right then was that I reasoned that once I had a mortgage I would never want to go back and study again for several years, so I might as well do it then. Who would have known at the time?

Friend and her husband bought and sold a few times, trading up massively each time to take advantage of all that free boom house inflation profit. Both are only children and were given *some* cash, not huge amounts though, by their parents. They had 3 children; friend left work. Her hubby's salary increased in the meantime to about 40k and he's just now this year got a job paying c. 60k as a lawyer for a tobacco company, working on making sure the conpany doesn't get sued by the public for giving them lung cancer; but she doesn't work now, so their total household income is 60k. But they've made enough on the houses they've traded up in the meantime (basically every time they bought and sold their property had doubled in price) to be now able to buy this 650k detached house and plan to spend 50k on it. So far so good (for them).

I finished my PhD, did some postdoc work, now work as an academic, earning well over 30k starting salary, as does my husband -- so in income respects even taking inflation into account we're actually better off than my friend and her husband earning 2 x 17k in 1999, and we have around the same household income that they do now. Yet we can't even remotely afford a 2-bed flat wehere we live. Looking ahead, and factoring in saving, starting pensions and so on, we might not be able to afford a 2-bed flat for another 5 years. In the meantime, if we're ever to save enough have the hope of buying somewhere, we can't afford to have a family. If we start a family now, we couldn't afford to keep paying the level of rents here and childcare as well even to (a) rent somewhere big enough for a small family AND pay for childcare on top or (b ) for us to afford on one salary for me to leave work to raise a child and pay the rent as well AND (c ) even if we could manage on one salary then we'd never be able to save any money for a deposit to escape renting. See what I mean? We're kind of trapped. And don't say we should have children anyway. We've done the sums over and over again, and it doesn't work. You just can't do it in this area with childcare costs and/or giving up one salary factored in; it doesn't work. We wouldn't qualify for tax credits either.

But what made me feel so bad today was that I realised that whatever we do, my husband and I are kind of f***d as professionals, aren't we? I mean, there's my friend, at home looking after her 3 children, in her big house, planning to send them all to private schools. As long as her hubby keeps his job, and they can afford to pay the mortgage each month, she's sorted for the rest of her life. Then there's me and my husband, earning the same, can't afford to buy a flat, will NEVER now have the chance to benefit from the HPI boom that got my friend and her hubby a detached Victorian villa. Even if house prices fell 50 percent in the next 10 years we'd never build up the equity they made on the rising market in order to EVER buy a house like theirs. In the meantime while they're paying for private schools for their kiddies, we'll be struggling to afford to have a family. We don't live an extravagant lifestyle, by the way: we don't have a car, we don't buy consumer durables, we don't go on holidays, we save as much as we can, we give to charities and do local voluntary work and local political party campaign work when we have time, we live as economically and as greenly as we can. (Friend and hubby drive 2 massive cars, buy TVs until they're coming out of their ears, holiday in the Carribean twice a year). Yet I was working out today that if houses stay at this price, never mind increase, it'll take us the next 4 years just to save enough for a deposit and moving costs on a 4x joint salary multiple on a 2-bed flat equivalent to the one they bought in 1999 for 70k -- which would cost us now around 270k. Even if prices dropped hugely, we will never end up with the kind of lifestyle and wealth they will have -- ever. We'll never get back that crucial 10 years in which some people made enough money on property to lock themselves into the system to their advantage. Friend and hubby will get to have the lifestyle I dreamed of having when I was a kid (my parents aren't wealthy) -- detached house, children at nice schools, one parent at home, foreign holidays twice a year. Whereas because I wasn't able to buy at the crucial moment, I'm not only going to spend my life always being poor and always catching up, but I'll not even be able to afford the lifestyle my parents had, ffs. I can't afford to buy NOW (so, bulls, don't tell me I should, as we just can't afford to do it here at the moment, and even if we did we'd lock ourselves out of having a child because of the mortgage payment), but even with an HPC, even when I CAN buy I'll never, never be able to afford what my friend has in terms of lifestyle.

<_<

So this is what it feels like to "miss the boat". Just feels really horrible to be honest. I'm sure all the bulls (Casual Observer et al) will just tell me I made all the wrong choices -- and to be sure, maybe I *should* have stayed in the city/trained as a lawyer/whatever just so I could buy buy buy at the right moment. I went back to do a PhD because I loved the subject I wanted to study (economic and social policy) and had some stupid misguided dream of doing some good with it in research and teaching in the education system or the public sector; and maybe that was just a really stupid ideal, to be honest. Maybe I should have just gone for the money and not cared about anything else. I spent all my teenage years and my 20s working incredibly hard at school and university so that I could get to a good university and get good grades and get a decent job that paid a decent amount and -- fond hope! -- do some good for society too. Whereas friend cheated her way through school, got a third at university, failed her law exams three times before she passed, married her husband only to start cheating on him 6 months after the wedding -- 2 of her children aren't his but he doesn't know and she's told me she's staying with him because he's a "cash cow" -- and she doesn't have to work. She now has her family, she has a nice life, where I work 75/80 hours per week on research, administration and teaching because I had some stupid idea about living honourably and frugally and decently and doing some good in the world as a responsible professional person.

What a great big fat sucker I was. I feel really appalling today, because I can't see a future for me and my husband in this overpriced nasty selfish hellhole of a country. I honestly don't see why I should just shrug my shoulders and accept that as someone with four degrees from Oxbridge who speaks three languages and works my a** off and doesn't cheat on my husband just for the fun of it or work for a tobacco company making sure that the company doesn't get sued by people with smoking-related cancer, I should "lower my expectations" of a decent standard of living and accept that I just got screwed by HPI and put up with living in my little 2-bed newbuild flat aged 40 with no children and a mortgage the same size of friend and hubby's in their 6-bed villa. sad.gifsad.gif

What's left for me and my husband here? Sorry for the long long rant but I just feel such despair. Why be a decent person with ideals in this country? I feel like buying the next ticket to Goa and living on the beach for the rest of my life. (Except that Goa property prices are so high that I couldn't even afford to buy a shack on the beach in Goa, ironically enough).

I hear ya. If aged 14 I'd just spacked-out at school, told the teachers to f-off every lesson, got a few half-baked low-grade GCSEs and a retail job I could have got a couple of promotions bought a flat while earning 11k that I couldn't afford now. Heck, by I could be deputy-manager of a Currys living in a half-decent 3 bed semi with a 300PCM mortgage.

Okay, I wouldn't have had some life experience, an education, met my wife or been the well-rounded bitter NuLabour-despising individual I am now but, heck, I'd never have had to put up with several years living in a shared slum on shite money despite having a Masters degree.

Bloody marvelous.

Multi-ID Troll (tenroom)

If you spent your time time rating yourself by your own set of criteria" before then it's fair to say that you've now effectively regressed. I'm not saying you're materialistic - I'm saying that what you perceive to be the hallmarks of success are mere illusions. Your so-called "low" standard of living has the backing of a well-paid job and a loving, respectful husband. You should be ecstatic ! Why you begrudge those who merely bought when prices were low is beyond reasoning.

If your happiness hinges on having more than those whom, by your reckoning, work less and do less for society, then I fear you may be lost.

Zaranna,

This is one great discussion. ;-)

One reaons for your problems is Cambridge. There's hardly a place in the UK with less to offer at that price. Cambridgeshire is flat and boring and in my experience seems to have a greater % of w*nkers than elsewhere, especially the villages (shudder). Very materialistic and keep-up-w-Joneses compared to up north.

So go get jobs somewhere like Nottingham, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds where academic salaries are the same and you can still get a 2-bed terrace in a half decent area for £120-140k. Have the child. If you have 2, get bunk beds. They won't complain. Save up for a 3-bed semi when the eldest reaches 11, if they're opposite sexes. Work part-time at most. You're lucky! Academia is about as child-friendly as it gets.

I know so many people who are happy without wealth. You can't take it when you go. We live temporarily on this planet. When you're aged 70, will you really give a d*mn what kind of house you have to downsize from?

Let the anger go! You are under no threat of starvation or homelessness. Love and health are what matters.

I can think of people that dossed about at my school who are now millionaires. Well, good luck to them is all I can say. All I hope is they made that fortune honestly and don't misuse it, or if guilty, will set things right somehow.

Think of the good you're doing by doing charity stuff. I agree with other comments people need to address spiritual stuff and think about love more than posessions, even if such posessions are "basic needs".

Careful choice of location enables a couple to live with no car at all. Cars are useful but they're also a pain to own sometimes and you can rent one for a weekend for £60 plus use occasional taxis. You sensibly chose to live somewhere with a train station. You don't absolutely need a car between you. Saves a packet towards housing.

But do consider getting the hell out of Cambridgeshire !!!

BTW I don't know how academics survive in the SE. Makes me wonder if one day all the best unis will be up north!

That's great, really. Well, that's me told. <_<I'll just slave away comforting myself with the fact that I have a spiritual destiny that is beyond the hallmarks of worldly success like houses and children and a comfortable life, that I am not entitled to aspire to <_< Sounds like we're all regressing -- to the kind of society where the plebs lived under a starry-eyed brand of religious thought-control where they were told, and truly believed, that it was their destiny to know their place and not question their betters, no matter how hard they worked or how deserving they were; and must never question the fact that idle people lived nicer lives than them, no matter how undeserving. How great this country was then! Why they begrudged the unearned wealth of their betters was beyond reasoning! <_<

Only, where this used to be based on arbitrary hierarchies of birth, now it's determined by whether one seized the Great Moment and stepped on to the star-blessed Property Boat, after the departing of which all others must revalue the normal yardsticks of worldly success, renouncing all worldly aspirations and abjuring all "expectations", in order to support and sustain the Great Property Owners, whose material success we Must Not Question or aspire to. Otherwise we risk spiritual death, if we (heretics! burn them!) question the Great Property Orthodoxy, and fail to realise our place in the Great Scheme of Being.

Why, we should merely be content to serve the property owners, and should be grateful for our lot! Obviously, for me, the road to enlightenment and peace is that I must realise that the "hallmarks of success are mere illusions." I shall ponder this pseudo-Eastern wisdom from my cramped rented flat; and feel superior in spiritual destiny to my "friend" in her large comfortable house. Never fear, my disheartened HPC friends, we shall receive our reward for our privations after death! Let us comfort ourselves with that knowledge even as we subsidise the lifestyles of those with greater material wealth. We are the Elect.

Is that working better for you.....? blink.gif

If you'd read my posts you'd see that my "friend" doesn't work -- AND she sticks the kids in childcare for half the week, so it's not as if she's a full-time SAHM. She freely admits they made a ton of a=cash on a rising market for doing nothing at all.

Whereas I work all hours, easily 75-80 per week most weeks. I'm taking a day off today to post on HPC and vent some of my frustration. I'll be takign this as a holiday day <_<

Why are you so keen to defend people who basically made money for nothing in a speculative boom market, just because they happened to buy a house at the right time?

thank you zoomraker! <_<

no-one is more aware than I am about finding happiness in small things. As I freely admit, I traded money and wealth to return to life of the mind (har har -- in reality, the life of petty politics and overgrown baby undergraduates, as other academics will confirm). I never expected to get so completely screwed out of the normal things in life -- a family, a house etc. All these exhortations to find pleasure in little things and be grateful for what I have -- well, bring some more coals to Newcastle, why don't you! I don't see why I shouldn't be pissed off. Bulls, shouldn't you be a little worried that the well-meaning suckers in life -- the teachers, nurses, social workers, young people in general -- are starting to stick two fingers up at society? What on earth is going to happen to all those materialist people when the non-materialist do-gooders like me start giving up and saying, you got it, chaps, I give up, selfishness and greed are the way to go? No more free public sector or low-paid vocational work for you. No more scholars, or nurses, or care home staff, or vicars, or charity workers, or police, or foster parents, or cancer researchers -- they'll all be deciding that on this evidence, they're better off trying to screw other people and the system and hang doing anything worthwhile for society when you can lie to buy a nasty flat and paint it magnolia and hey presto you've earned 100k in a year whereas actually work hard and care about things and you're f**ed.

Screw finding happiness in small things. I want to have a nice house and lie around all day watching daytime TV with my babies like my undeserving "friend". Why not?

I have some beautiful yellow daffodils that I tended myself from small bulbs in a window-box outside my office, and often I gaze at them for a while and admire their natural beauty, and think how wonderful the miracles of spring are. They can occupy me for, oh, a full 3 minutes at a time before I return to pondering the injustices of my 75-80 hour working week and my financial inability to attain a decent standard of living. It's nice to appreciate the lovely small things in life, but it's getting boring now. <_<

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Stress is a killer. Being subject to a two month notice period when you have kids is stressful (and it is often very difficult to have a longer AST as per Bruce) and costly. I suspect that the stress levels of people who rent privately are far in excess of people who have a large mortgage as even they have a decent level of security of tenure and certainly far far longer than a private renter.

Sad thing is it would be so easy to fix and wouldn't cost the taxpayer a penny. Mandatory 5 year ASTs with asymmetric notice so tenants can leave early if they want to + improved process for landlords to evict non-paying tenants = everyone's a winner. For once this doesn't have to be about picking winners and losers, it can just be good governance. Instead the Tories are fvcking about with giving FTBs in London 40% taxpayer-funded deposits and Labour remain silent.

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Only, where this used to be based on arbitrary hierarchies of birth, now it's determined by whether one seized the Great Moment and stepped on to the star-blessed Property Boat, after the departing of which all others must revalue the normal yardsticks of worldly success, renouncing all worldly aspirations and abjuring all "expectations", in order to support and sustain the Great Property Owners, whose material success we Must Not Question or aspire to. Otherwise we risk spiritual death, if we (heretics! burn them!) question the Great Property Orthodoxy, and fail to realise our place in the Great Scheme of Being.

Why, we should merely be content to serve the property owners, and should be grateful for our lot! Obviously, for me, the road to enlightenment and peace is that I must realise that the "hallmarks of success are mere illusions." I shall ponder this pseudo-Eastern wisdom from my cramped rented flat; and feel superior in spiritual destiny to my "friend" in her large comfortable house. Never fear, my disheartened HPC friends, we shall receive our reward for our privations after death! Let us comfort ourselves with that knowledge even as we subsidise the lifestyles of those with greater material wealth. We are the Elect.

Is that working better for you.....?

And of course following on from The Breakdown 2008-201 'just wanted a home / media to blame / collective responsibility of society / hpcers prey on misery'... mortgage rescues, 5.5% to 0.5%, Multi hundred billions QE..... London and the South East went from extreme, to extreme extreme prices.

I have some beautiful yellow daffodils that I tended myself from small bulbs in a window-box outside my office, and often I gaze at them for a while and admire their natural beauty, and think how wonderful the miracles of spring are. They can occupy me for, oh, a full 3 minutes at a time before I return to pondering the injustices of my 75-80 hour working week and my financial inability to attain a decent standard of living. It's nice to appreciate the lovely small things in life, but it's getting boring now. <_<

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Yup, entirely agree with the scepticism of Venger above. All this rubbish about being happy in yourself, and poor as ****** to boot, is at best apologism for a thoroughly dire state of affairs. I have found that some utterly uncompromising individuals seem to be uncharacteristically sanguine when confronted with rampant injustices visited upon other people. Messy pragmatism takes over, usually involving carefully avoiding elephants in the immediate proximity.

I am becoming increasingly hacked off with the current situation. Neighbours moved in a couple of weeks back, white goods advertised as included in rental. Washing machine does not work, it turns out, LL is all "ah, well, it was put there by previous tenants and it's not my problem". ******ing complete scum. Professional couple ferrying dirty linen 10 miles to parents house to get it washed a week after they moved in. These "Have a Go" LL dickheads ought to be taken to the cleaners ASAP. Utterly intolerable morons.

Edited by The Knimbies who say No

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Venger. Brilliant. +1000

The way aspiration, a basic human need, has been trampled on is simply pure evil. The apologising nonsense reflects the same irrational rubbish they i used to justify bailouts of the feckless. They were just trying to be happy, why shouldn't they get government help, they said...

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Venger. Brilliant. +1000

The way aspiration, a basic human need, has been trampled on is simply pure evil. The apologising nonsense reflects the same irrational rubbish they i used to justify bailouts of the feckless. They were just trying to be happy, why shouldn't they get government help, they said...

Now we have this

CZ004SgWYAEKlPz.jpg

Help to whom ?

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anyone would think the housing market was about housing.

Its not.

Its about banking.

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Help to whom? The entirety of their constitutes of course,, ie the wealthy and luck by whatever means and especially those bought up with the traditional silver spoon. This was set up to push up the value of 'their' investments, no other reason regardless of dressing a pig up as a lady and presenting it in the Dailymail et al as such..

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Good chart.

Newton was destroyed financially by the market. Like Groucho Marx in the 30s.

I'm sure neither were bailed out.

Fast forward to today. e.g Can you imagine Stephen Hawking and John Cleese being destroyed by a HPC ? (I've no idea whether they are into housing , btw...)

Me neither. The squeals from media and govt to bail out the 100's of "national treasures" burned by a HPC will be long and loud.

I'm not confident the govt will be strong enough to resist.... :(

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Yup, entirely agree with the scepticism of Venger above. All this rubbish about being happy in yourself, and poor as ****** to boot, is at best apologism for a thoroughly dire state of affairs. I have found that some utterly uncompromising individuals seem to be uncharacteristically sanguine when confronted with rampant injustices visited upon other people. Messy pragmatism takes over, usually involving carefully avoiding elephants in the immediate proximity.

I am becoming increasingly hacked off with the current situation. Neighbours moved in a couple of weeks back, white goods advertised as included in rental. Washing machine does not work, it turns out, LL is all "ah, well, it was put there by previous tenants and it's not my problem". ******ing complete scum. Professional couple ferrying dirty linen 10 miles to parents house to get it washed a week after they moved in. These "Have a Go" LL dickheads ought to be taken to the cleaners ASAP. Utterly intolerable morons.

In my current rental, the washing machine has green gung over the rubber seal causing the w machine to leak. The fridge (mini) didn't even cool. I complained to the agency who sent their repaid man and sided with us (kudos to him, he put a high tech temperature sensor in the fridge and said his oven was cooler).

The LL had to replace.

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The losers are the savers.....the system hates savers, they bow down to the indebted..........help create wealth and growth GDP by digging a hole of debt for yourself, spend and borrow, work and earn......until no longer able then live from the proceeds or withdrawing more debt from equity of your house, because your savings will have become worthless.....

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Thanks Si1 but it was Zaranna posts which tunes in how I feel about the situation. It was terrible then back in early 2007.... and she had endured Bubble 1.0 to that stage, and all those years of HPI rocketing beyond earnings, for the HPI... doubling and trebling prices in blink of a Gordon eye.

What a further drain it has been to now, years and year later, and higher prices still to new peaks, after the bailout. And attitudes coarser still on the HPI side. And still with the 'spiritual' arguments on HPC.

There will be few winners.....a house costs money whilst living in it, a regular, secure, guaranteed, index linked pension pays you money to live wherever you are living...."you no longer find many of those about" said the wide mouth frog.

Winners are everywhere, as are the losers... spirituals.

Lets talk about some real best investments like:

Your health,

Your family and friends,

Your peace of mind,

Your business.

Your self generated, pro active, high value low cost education.

Expensive land and bricks are no good to anybody if in poor health, alone, fearful, not self educated and a slave to creditors......DYOR

Certainly better for those sat on free-ride ponzi HPI, in houses paid off (or highly equity rich) in the long wave HPI then double super boost HPI, than being a priced-out renter, getting ever older, exhausted from productive work for years and years against raging HPI... and living in excuse world. They own their own homes, wealthy to extremes (they can sell).

"Few winners out there."

What's the other one?

"Renters making problem worse and empowering the HPI and landlords... should be fighting the system by sofa-hopping at friends places with your family."

Got no money, and you've got few friends.

The Breakdowners/apologists for all this refuse to see the world. "It's always been hard to buy". - "They just wanted a home." "Think not of yourself, but worry for those who've happily taken £500K mortgages" (and who look down on you as renters) - or olders who keep asking you when you going to buy. (forever hpi) - renter-savers poor people from poor families who don't understand need big debt to make it in the world of property properti property.

The losers are the savers.....the system hates savers, they bow down to the indebted..........help create wealth and growth GDP by digging a hole of debt for yourself, spend and borrow, work and earn......until no longer able then live from the proceeds or withdrawing more debt from equity of your house, because your savings will have become worthless.....

The excuse givers and HPI protectors hate the savers. No I won't bow to the massive equity side rich - who almost ALWAYS point to the few jumbo debtors as needing protecting to in turn protect their own HPI.

HPC to rebalance. Savings to be worth more. The Resistance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQsg6XXGxXQ

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Thanks Si1 but it was Zaranna posts which tunes in how I feel about the situation. It was terrible then back in early 2007.... and she had endured Bubble 1.0 to that stage, and all those years of HPI rocketing beyond earnings, for the HPI... doubling and trebling prices in blink of a Gordon eye.

What a further drain it has been to now, years and year later, and higher prices still to new peaks, after the bailout. And attitudes coarser still on the HPI side. And still with the 'spiritual' arguments on HPC.

Winners are everywhere, as are the losers... spirituals.

Certainly better for those sat on free-ride ponzi HPI, in houses paid off (or highly equity rich) in the long wave HPI then double super boost HPI, than being a priced-out renter, getting ever older, exhausted from productive work for years and years against raging HPI... and living in excuse world. They own their own homes, wealthy to extremes (they can sell).

"Few winners out there."

What's the other one?

"Renters making problem worse and empowering the HPI and landlords... should be fighting the system by sofa-hopping at friends places with your family."

Got no money, and you've got few friends.

The Breakdowners/apologists for all this refuse to see the world. "It's always been hard to buy". - "They just wanted a home." "Think not of yourself, but worry for those who've happily taken £500K mortgages" (and who look down on you as renters) - or olders who keep asking you when you going to buy. (forever hpi) - renter-savers poor people from poor families who don't understand need big debt to make it in the world of property properti property.

The excuse givers and HPI protectors hate the savers. No I won't bow to the massive equity side rich - who almost ALWAYS point to the few jumbo debtors as needing protecting to in turn protect their own HPI.

HPC to rebalance. Savings to be worth more. The Resistance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQsg6XXGxXQ

This madness has taken it's toll on people. I know of 2 who have been pretty sick and the stress of everyday live has become unbearable.

U

EDIT: Make that 4, I know of 2 that have tried to "live the dream" only to find out it was a nightmare.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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Good chart.

Newton was destroyed financially by the market. Like Groucho Marx in the 30s.

I'm sure neither were bailed out.

Fast forward to today. e.g Can you imagine Stephen Hawking and John Cleese being destroyed by a HPC ? (I've no idea whether they are into housing , btw...)

Me neither. The squeals from media and govt to bail out the 100's of "national treasures" burned by a HPC will be long and loud.

I'm not confident the govt will be strong enough to resist.... :(

Think he's had a few expensive separations, but no. Not at all.

The extremes... people brush over them so easily.

Everyone's a winner. Health and friendship.. be happy with your lot.

Tom Conti puts home he bought for £165k on market for £17.5million

1 June 2015

With its sprawling gardens and tranquil setting, his home once provided a rare oasis of calm among London’s busy streets.

But it appears Tom Conti has finally lost patience in his battle to halt the numerous building developments which he claims are blighting his leafy North London suburb.

The actor, who was engaged in a long planning dispute with ex-footballer neighbour Thierry Henry, has now put his Hampstead mansion on the market for £17.5million – 30 years after he bought the five-bedroom property for £165,000.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3103212/Tom-Conti-puts-home-bought-165k-market-17-5million-Actor-admits-defeat-row-soccer-star-neighbour.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tom-conti-gives-up-on-long-running-battle-with-neighbour-thierry-henry-over-building-works-and-puts-10286620.html

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/People/article1615218.ece

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-50031001.html

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