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workingpoor

How Big Companies Will Deal With The Minimum Wage Rises.

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I can't access your link but you then go on to say just 15% of staff received double time. If every grunt on the shop floor was getting it that would make Tescos the most coveted job in retail.

I think there is the situation where staff on newer contracts dont get double time for sunday but staff on older contracts still get double bubble.

Seems plenty of animosity between these 2 groups led to the cuts being pushed through with few willing to take industrial action to protect something they didnt get.

Edited by workingpoor

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Is that ever possible for more than a certain % of the population at any given time?

I'd encourage anyone to correct me if I'm wrong but from where I sit the world is and always has been not about a utopia where every one is equal and does well. It is dog eat dog.

I started off with absolutely nothing. I've also had no bank of mum and dad nor inheritance. I've managed to accrue capital and continue to do so. If I can anybody can. The big problem I think for many though is that it is bl**dy hard work and also takes some serious determination.

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The Tories are only bringing in the "National Living Wage" because they realise how much in-work benefits cost. They want the employers paying more. Of course, if the employers reduce hours or wage rates for their employees, that's not really going to work.

...or offshore it, or automate it, or remove the 'need'.

All of those are what is going to happen.

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It all comes back to Tax Credits again doesn't it and the attempts employers and employees will make to ensure the free money keeps flowing.

You can bet that employers will fight tooth and nail to ensure they pay the least they can (reduce hours) and maximise the amount the tax payer pays. No way will they just take a hit. You can bet they will throw more zero hour workers onto the carrousel. You can bet Tesco have an army of accountants to ensure this will be so. Hey no worries anyway, it's only costing the country £10Bn a month in borrowing.

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Guest eight

I'd encourage anyone to correct me if I'm wrong but from where I sit the world is and always has been not about a utopia where every one is equal and does well. It is dog eat dog.

I started off with absolutely nothing. I've also had no bank of mum and dad nor inheritance. I've managed to accrue capital and continue to do so. If I can anybody can. The big problem I think for many though is that it is bl**dy hard work and also takes some serious determination.

I wasn't having a dig at you. It was a genuine question. Somebody's got to do the donkey work. Perhaps labour should be more highly rewarded than capital?

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I wasn't having a dig at you. It was a genuine question. Somebody's got to do the donkey work. Perhaps labour should be more highly rewarded than capital?

Sorry, if my reply came across that way. That wasn't my intention as I always appreciate your views.

I agree that somebody has to do the donkey work. What I was trying to say is that since the dawn of time there has always been the 'donkeys'. The difference is that once they were slaves and so had no chance in life. At least now if you put your mind to it, rather than just following the herd, you have a chance of digging your way to a better life.

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You can bet that employers will fight tooth and nail to ensure they pay the least they can (reduce hours) and maximise the amount the tax payer pays. No way will they just take a hit. You can bet they will throw more zero hour workers onto the carrousel. You can bet Tesco have an army of accountants to ensure this will be so. Hey no worries anyway, it's only costing the country £10Bn a month in borrowing.

Businesses are a bit like landlords (they can't just up the rent because they're extracting the maximum they can from their renter).

Businesses pay the least they can to stay competitive.

However if every businesses costs go up and they attempt to maintain their margins prices will rise.

What happens next is anyone's guess, either demand will fall, debt will rise or more pay will be demanded to compensate the price rises.

Since debt is cheap and easy to get compared to a pay rise, I will go with more private debt being ultimate the outcome - This may be the intended outcome of such policy in the first place.

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The Tories are only bringing in the "National Living Wage" because they realise how much in-work benefits cost. They want the employers paying more. Of course, if the employers reduce hours or wage rates for their employees, that's not really going to work.

I'm no fan of minimum wages but isn't this the lesser of two evils? Tax credits effectively subsidised and guaranteed a low wage economy. Why invest in improved productivity (either via capital equipment of upskilling a workforce) if the government tops up sub-economic pay? Tax credits are a nitro-boost in the race to the bottom - which is really where you don't want your economy to be positioned.

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Astonishing... ten years ago, £18k was a decent graduate starting salary... now it's going to be minimum wage.

Absolutely. Even longer than that. I remember after finishing university (1994), getting a Research Technician job at Liverpool University, paid from memory 13k, a few years later 1999 I was up to the Research Assistant job ranks, paid £17/18k. I felt rich. Housing was very cheap.

Now ...

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With just 2 months to go until the first of 4 consecutive rises in the National Minimum Wage begin,

How are these large companies that rely on low wages going to deal with the wage rises? shed staff or cut overtime & shift rates?

It's going all the way to £9p/hr in 4 consecutive wage rises.

Staff at Tesco will be told next week that pay rates for working Sundays and Bank Holidays, late nights and overtime hours are set to be slashed as the supermarket giant seeks to cut costs, This is Money has learned from a source.

It is believed employees at the retailer used to receiving double time for Sundays and Bank Holidays will be told on Tuesday that they will get just time and a half from July - a pay cut of 25 per cent.

Higher pay rates for overtime will also be revoked, with extra hours paid at the standard rate, according a whistleblower who wishes to remain anonymous.

And a premium for working the hours 10pm-midnight will be scrapped as part of the pay review. This is Money understands it was a deal agreed behind closed doors with the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-3424205/Tesco-slash-pay-staff-working-overtime-late-nights-Bank-Holidays.html

****** em. if they cant afford to pay a living wage and exist them they arnt worthy of being a going concern.

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I simply can't accept that Tesco currently pay double time for Sunday working.

Apparently they don't, its a select group of old employees. They are just adjusting them to them same rate everyone else gets.

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If house and rent prices were not such a high price big companies would not have to pay so much.......swings and roundabouts. ;)

Therein lies the problem, they could make the minimum pay rates £15 an hour and the increase will only find it's way into higher house prices/rents. People are competitive stupid.

Minimum wages is fine as it stands. What we need and keep asking for is access to lower housing costs.

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There is the other question how will local councils and the government cope? Lots of low paid jobs in those areas.

The care sector is going to struggle by all counts, the majority of carers only get the minimum wage & margins are tight as it is.

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Imagine you are a 16 hour shuffler working in a supermarket.

Your well versed in submitting annual claims to HMRC for the Tax Credits.

You have been worried since you heard Osborne announce the rises in the Minimum wage and wondering how it's going to pan out.

Supermarket bosses are also working to see how they can keep the wage subsidy.

Supermarket bosses talk to the Government through the CBI etc

Government is accutely aware that household finances are on a knifedge.

Supermarket wrap up the proposals in a paydeal package and sell it with a "your tax credits will stay the same because your income will ultimately stay the same"

"we'll do you a favour and cut the overtime rates to suit"

Everyone buys it and wonders what will happen in April 2017.

Edited by workingpoor

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Capitalism is a funny old beast- we all love low prices but bitch about low wages and we are all in favor of labor saving technology but bitch about the unemployed- :lol:

The whole thing seems riddled with self contradictions.

The minimum wage is an anomaly in a supposedly free market system- but then look what happened in 2008 when the invisible hand came knocking at the doors of the super rich- they ditched capitalism in favor of state bailout socialism with barely a backward glance. So it seems neither the poor or the rich really want to live in a free market society, everyone wants exceptions to be made.

And lets not overlook those 'investors' whose claims to be operating in a Darwinian style winner take all system are made to look just a little silly by the limited liability laws that protect them from the full consequences of their potential liabilities.

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Capitalism is a funny old beast- we all love low prices but bitch about low wages and we are all in favor of labor saving technology but bitch about the unemployed- :lol:

You're missing the third piece of the puzzle: prices, wages and... profits.

The labour share of income in the developed world has been falling for 40 years. That's why the low prices and low wages aren't cancelling each other out. People are right to be "b1tching" about the situation.

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There is a theory that Premium overtime and shift rates will be cut.

These can be £1.50 / £2 p/hr etc

If they are not cut then the situation will arise with NMW increases, where low paid menial work could in fact end up paying £10-£11 p/hr with premiums!

Obviously this would upset alot of people who do skilled work for around this amount and the government couldn't really afford to have these "hard working taxpayers" enraged or worse quitting and doing a less stressful job,

because it's unlikey they are going to get payrise's to keep ahead.

£11 p/hr is about the average wage in the UK.

I will keep an eye out for more companies trimming shift & overtime rates now that it's wage negotiating season.

Edited by workingpoor

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It may get inflation going again, which may be a key rational behind the policy. For prices but also wages. If I am a team lead, I don't want to be earning the same as those who work for me. If I am the manager etc. Inflation goes up, growth goes up, debt is Worth less, interest rates can start to rise etc etc.

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Best staff comment on Verylittlehelps.

2020... £9 an hour cleaning a council run sh**house or earning £9 an hour working for a bunch of retail sh**houses?

No - brainer

That's always been the case. Only the hourly pay has changed.

I'd go for the council-run thing - if its till run by the council.

More likely to be run by a contractor, do no difference either way.

And the moral?

Get skilled up and get a better job.

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I'm no fan of minimum wages but isn't this the lesser of two evils? Tax credits effectively subsidised and guaranteed a low wage economy. Why invest in improved productivity (either via capital equipment of upskilling a workforce) if the government tops up sub-economic pay? Tax credits are a nitro-boost in the race to the bottom - which is really where you don't want your economy to be positioned.

Thats he insanity of the one eyed goons tax credits.

Rather than the low paid jobs migrating to the cheaper areas oft the EU, TCs allows low-value work to stay i nthe UK and import low productivity workers from Romania. And we have to pay pay them 1k/month to make the whole thing work.

I keep telling people, Brown should be hung upside down from a lamppost.

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Our local nursery/playgroup are desperately money raising to keep running.

The government are saying they've got to offer 30 free hours and put everyone's wages up (which is desperately needed as they earn minimum wage) however the government will only pay a rate for those 30 hours that is well below break even. It isn't even the increase in wages but the national insurance and pension changes too.

I don't think they've thought through quite how precarious the financial position of small organisations that don't seek to make a profit are.

My wife works at one of these. They try to get around the minimum wage laws by getting all the paperwork (lots) and any training (required) done unpaid.

This drops the effective pay well below minimum wage per hour. The nursery assumes this is legal but I've looked into it, read the law and clearly see that it is not.

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Astonishing... ten years ago, £18k was a decent graduate starting salary... now it's going to be minimum wage.

BoE want at least 4.5x household income. So even a couple both just on minimum wage can offer £162k (2 x £18k x 4.5) for presumably a low end property as it's a low end wage.

Does that wage increase feed through to price rises for food, eating out, etc as firms put their prices up to cover the increased wage costs? If so, the middle get further squeezed if they don't get a comparable wage rise. Savers see the real value of a cash lump eroded because it's not going to buy as much. If interest rates don't rise comparably the interest income buys less and less.

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These are the inevitable outcomes of any minimum wage regime. You're effectively banning some workers (those who would choose to work for less than NMW) from employment. And, unless demand changes, the labour will bet met in another manner (offshoring or automation).

This shareholder *hopes* for such increases but feels it would be daft to *expect* them!

Where is this army of workers prepared to work for less than NMW? If NMW isn't economically viable without tax credits (or being out of work altogether) I fail to recognise this argument.

Unless it's advocation for back door slavery of course

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  • 220 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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