Bruce Banner Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 .......they're not making either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 .......they're not making either. That's not quite true, both are still being created and destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Taylor Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Oh I don't know, the Dutch have been doing it for years (creating land, that is.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 That's not quite true, both are still being created and destroyed. Well yes, but you know what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Oh I don't know, the Dutch have been doing it for years (creating land, that is.) Good point. Land is much easier to create than oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Taylor Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Not really comparable; £10,000,000 invested in oil will give you a return once, when you sell it. The same investment in land will give your issue an income ad infinitum. That's why some families in the UK have been wealthy for hundreds of years. All due to the way their ancestors invested/stole/were gifted land. Of course, if the land in question has oil underneath it,.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 Not really comparable; £10,000,000 invested in oil will give you a return once, when you sell it. The same investment in land will give your issue an income ad infinitum. That's why some families in the UK have been wealthy for hundreds of years. All due to the way their ancestors invested/stole/were gifted land. Of course, if the land in question has oil underneath it,.... What about £10,000,000 of borrowed money invested in land at the top of the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Of Highbridge Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Building a 50 storey sky scraper will create lots of land, do this in London where land is scarce and it's happy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 They are both dirty and need hovering up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunobald Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Oil may be like land.. sort of. Unlike land though with oil you can substitute alternatives in the majority of applications, be it as a power source or materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Taylor Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 What about £10,000,000 of borrowed money invested in land at the top of the market? There is no such thing with land on the timescales I'm talking about. And certainly not with FRB. But even if we did away with a money system as we know it, there will still be a need for land for food and shelter. I don't see any such longevity for oil. It's not completely bonkers to believe that this current turmoil is the start of a long term decline in demand and production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Clean fresh water and air.....more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorrowToLeech Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Building a 50 storey sky scraper will create lots of land, do this in London where land is scarce and it's happy days. Doesn't create land, just makes better use of it. The same can be said about land reclaimed from the sea, it doesn't increase the surface area of the earth, it just improves it. Land is similar to oil, in that neither could be said to belong to anyone except that the government makes it so. That's why the government sells oil licenses - you want to use a natural resource, then you have to pay for it. They don't sell land licenses because land is magical, or something. Of course, in undemocratic countries such as Saudi Arabia, the government has no legitimate claim to own the oil either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afarmer Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Agricultural land at about £10,000 per acre has been massively inflated because of the low interest rates, high cereal prices a few years ago and of course EU subsidy money. The realistic value now based on what it can produce is more like £3,000 acre. I wonder how long it will take to drop to that level, or if it ever will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 unless you are making ky jelly. more important lubricant than brent crude by some people's measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Good point. Land is much easier to create than oil. Perhaps...there is the old syn fuel and tropsch fisher. Oil at $28 a barrel...definetly not making that any more. But oil or coal derived oil substitutes at $80 a barrel. Centuries of that left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 .......they're not making either. Bruce, are you just trying to wind up those fine folk from MSE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Taylor Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Agricultural land at about £10,000 per acre has been massively inflated because of the low interest rates, high cereal prices a few years ago and of course EU subsidy money. The realistic value now based on what it can produce is more like £3,000 acre. I wonder how long it will take to drop to that level, or if it ever will. Probably not whilst agricultural land enjoys such favourable IHT treatment. Take that away, and the EU area payments and we might start to find what the land is really worth. It might even make more sense to build houses on some of it, especially the marginal stuff on the edge of towns and villages. (I know, I know, far too radical...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryMeanReversion Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Agricultural land at about £10,000 per acre has been massively inflated because of the low interest rates, high cereal prices a few years ago and of course EU subsidy money. The realistic value now based on what it can produce is more like £3,000 acre. I wonder how long it will take to drop to that level, or if it ever will. My neighbour recently turned down a £20K/acre from my other neighbour for a ~20 acre field. The field owner does seed trials, generates ~£30K working income from that field so no point selling it although he is well into his 60's by now. The buyer-to-be runs a smallholding that is profitable but I suspect this is only because he houses his Eastern European workers on site. I don't suppose much other taxes/NI are being paid. (I know the caravans are not registered for council tax). All the other local smallholdings went bust years ago, the numbers dont add up when you have UK workers and taxes to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokercola Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I am making this point as well. I don't think, 18 months ago anyone would have seriously expected a crash in the oil price, it was just one of those things that couldn't happen, people were so used to forever rising prices, think of how much of the Scottish independence debate hinged around the oil revenues. Also I think utility value of a barrel of oil is higher than a terraced cr*p-hole in Bolton! So, I am very cautiously saying 2016 is crash year! oil price smashed, Chinese stock market down, ftse down, no where to go on interest rates and new BTL tax regime. If it doesn't happen this year, well........ Edited January 21, 2016 by pokercola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I am making this point as well. I don't think, 18 months ago anyone would have seriously expected a crash in the oil price, it was just one of those things that couldn't happen, people were so used to forever rising prices, think of how much of the Scottish independence debate hinged around the oil revenues. Also I think utility value of a barrel of oil is higher than a terraced cr*p-hole in Bolton! So, I am very cautiously saying 2016 is crash year! oil price smashed, Chinese stock market down, ftse down, no where to go on interest rates and new BTL tax regime. If it doesn't happen this year, well........ Stocks are crashing! Take your money out and put it in property it's safer! Etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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