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GinAndPlatonic

Degrees ?...what Do They Actually Mean.

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I think it`s all a bit of a dilemma for educators, employers and students as imho there has to be thresholds to pass, but there is so much cheating going on nowadays with falsified degrees and exam passes.

Requirements to get into University appear to have been watered down. I remember fifty years ago upon hearing someone I knew had gotten into Uni, thinking blimey he must have worked hard and actually deserved it. Not any more now though, as Uni places are ten a penny.

Most know that a piece of paper stating pass on it, is only half the story. I wonder why it has taken some employers so long to admit it.

I hope it doesnt start a war though.

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I've you've not got a job connected to your degree within 5 years of graduating then there was no point going.

Before tuition fees, that meant you'd wasted 3 years of your life.

Nowadays it screws you up financially.

I feel uncomfortable talking to my peers who did not get degrees and have pushed their kids into Uni to 'get a good job'.

I say that they will need to move away (from the rural area I come from). Thats a shock to some of the parents and kids.

I also say they need to sure there's access to a job afterwards.

One old school mate is dazed that his daughter is working in a local bar. She could have done that at 18 without 30k+ of debt! He says.

Daughter has a Degree in Social Policy of somethign vague + useless.

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I feel much better now. I always thought I was thik or summat.

Penguin scraps degree requirement

It follows concerns that requiring a degree and recruiting from particular universities was producing too narrow a range of staff.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35343680

It always used to be the case that employing a graduate meant that you were selecting the top 10% (or whatever) of the academic achievers of a given age. It also meant that the individual was likely to have come from a certain economic background, so would fit in with your others of the same background.

Now, in those days it was also possible to be a bright, go-getting sort of person who didn't do a degree. These people also made their way successfully in the world.

But now, 'everyone' does a degree. It isn't a sign of anything. I suppose the actual degree shows you have some skills/experience, but outside of the vocational qualifications, these skills/experience just aren't as important as they're made out to be.

The changes to their recruitment policies probably won't make much difference, as anyone they'd want to employ will have got a degree anyway - not because it is needed, but just because that is what is done.

All that said, I wouldn't be surprised for there to be an interesting cohort of individuals who don't go to college, but rather do interesting stuff - form their own company, that sort of thing. They'd probably love to employ those sort of impressive, go-getting sort of people - but they're exactly the sort of people who don't want to suffer working for an outfit like Penguin...

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I've you've not got a job connected to your degree within 5 years of graduating then there was no point going.

Before tuition fees, that meant you'd wasted 3 years of your life.

Nowadays it screws you up financially.

I feel uncomfortable talking to my peers who did not get degrees and have pushed their kids into Uni to 'get a good job'.

I say that they will need to move away (from the rural area I come from). Thats a shock to some of the parents and kids.

I also say they need to sure there's access to a job afterwards.

One old school mate is dazed that his daughter is working in a local bar. She could have done that at 18 without 30k+ of debt! He says.

Daughter has a Degree in Social Policy of somethign vague + useless.

A wealthy cousin of mine (who had all of the advantages of higher education in the 70s) just gave her 18 yr old son £5k in seed funding and told him to start his own business. He's early 20s now and earning well over £50k...

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A wealthy cousin of mine (who had all of the advantages of higher education in the 70s) just gave her 18 yr old son £5k in seed funding and told him to start his own business. He's early 20s now and earning well over £50k...

Cannabis farm?

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A wealthy cousin of mine (who had all of the advantages of higher education in the 70s) just gave her 18 yr old son £5k in seed funding and told him to start his own business. He's early 20s now and earning well over £50k...

Excellent - what sort of business?

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Excellent - what sort of business?

Speciality retail - no going into more details... But he is excellent - drives a hard bargain from suppliers, etc. Probably in his genes - his grandad (and particularly great grandad) were the same.

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1 in 2 having a degree is pretty pointless. Politicians can talk BS 'aspiration' but for them it keeps then from having the headache of what to do with a million or so unemployed youths.

It's a con. A rug waiting to be pulled from underneath them.

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Speciality retail - no going into more details... But he is excellent - drives a hard bargain from suppliers, etc. Probably in his genes - his grandad (and particularly great grandad) were the same.

Runs a brothel then?

Only joking, fair play to him.

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It always used to be the case that employing a graduate meant that you were selecting the top 10% (or whatever) of the academic achievers of a given age. It also meant that the individual was likely to have come from a certain economic background, so would fit in with your others of the same background.

Now, in those days it was also possible to be a bright, go-getting sort of person who didn't do a degree. These people also made their way successfully in the world.

But now, 'everyone' does a degree. It isn't a sign of anything. I suppose the actual degree shows you have some skills/experience, but outside of the vocational qualifications, these skills/experience just aren't as important as they're made out to be.

The changes to their recruitment policies probably won't make much difference, as anyone they'd want to employ will have got a degree anyway - not because it is needed, but just because that is what is done.

All that said, I wouldn't be surprised for there to be an interesting cohort of individuals who don't go to college, but rather do interesting stuff - form their own company, that sort of thing. They'd probably love to employ those sort of impressive, go-getting sort of people - but they're exactly the sort of people who don't want to suffer working for an outfit like Penguin...

There's a book called 'The Bell Curve', well worth reading.

One if its main arguments is that wider access to HE has fundamentally been a bad thing. Back in the 20s if you compared the average IQs of grads and non-grads they were broadly similar, indicating that some very bright people stayed in their communities and did nominally menial tasks. This was a good thing for society as a whole. If you compare the same now you find that the average IQ of grads and non-grads you find that grads are significantly higher. In other words wider access to HE has resulted in ghettoisation as anyone with half a brain buggers off to university and only the complete retards are left behind.

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I haven't got a degree and I'm as smart as ******.

Me neither. I've just started an OU one and was amazed at how easy it all is. The pass mark on my course is only 40%. I easily get upwards of 70, and on one occasion 95!?

Edit to say that my contemporaries all did degrees straight out of school and became teachers. At age 50, not only was I earning about 20% more than them - I'd been doing it for three or four years longer!

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I must have been an incredibly naive 18 year old but when I went to University I never even thought about what job I would do at the end of my course or whether my degree would help me get it. Rather dozily I just selected 3 A level subjects and then went on to study the one in which I was most proficient at University because that was what my school suggested. Today's youngsters may be a lot more sophisticated but I suspect many are just as clueless as I was. Unfortunately the current generations get punished a lot harder financially than I did for simply conforming to the educational path laid out for them by their teachers, parents and mentors

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Presumably penguin have ralised that being educated is not a particularly reliable indicator of being able to pick out the kind of tosh the lumpen proles want to read.

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If you want any form of public sector job a degree will be an essential prerequisite (notoriously box-ticky, mindless type HR processes).

For anything outside of that you can probably get away with ability and experience in most roles.

As far as what a degree means in terms of general ability, just ask a university professor what he'd trust an undergrad student to touch in his lab ;)

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Me neither. I've just started an OU one and was amazed at how easy it all is. The pass mark on my course is only 40%. I easily get upwards of 70, and on one occasion 95!

Edit to say that my contemporaries all did degrees straight out of school and became teachers. At age 50, not only was I earning about 20% more than them - I'd been doing it for three or four years longer!

Really!!!, I'm currently four years into one, and I've found it much harder than my previous higher ed. efforts...40% would equal a third...Its harder to get the higher pass rates, compared to a traditional uni, as they make it harder to achieve the higher grades, as they have to compensate for the lack of screening of the candidates...

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Hats off to all you OU studiers. I know two people who did that. One of the reasons I did a degree, is that were no jobs about, and I thought there might be in 3 years time. I wouldn't have got in debt for it.
I didn't have to back then. :blink: Have employers woken up a bit?

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Degrees have been largely about a previous generation foisting their dreams, regrets and perceived missed opportunities on the next.

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I'm with hotairmail that they're mis-sold these days. For hundreds of years you had to be one of the cleverest ?5% of the population to have a degree. If you recruited a graduate you knew that you were getting one smart cookie. And that, in employment terms, was their value.

That's gone and a degree, rather than being an entry requirement for a good job, has become a base requirement for an ordinary job.

Penguin, rightly, has now said that as a degree is no guarantee of anything bar a basic competency that is anyway evidenced by A levels then they don't require one as they're pointless bits of paper these days.

So that's that. A degree has now finally fallen as far as is possible in a short twenty years. It has gone from a badge of excellence into an unnecessary debt-gathering exercise.

Right, what can the government ruin next?

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