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DTMark

False Harrassment Claims

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The long-running saga continues. Not about me, but someone I know.

Separated from previous partner years ago, ongoing contact issues, enforcement against ex-partner, frustration of order and so on.

Ex-partner is now falsely alleging harassment by telephone.

I suspect this could be her potential downfall since this can be proven or disproven.

If properly investigated, it only needs proof that the harasser was nowhere near the mobile cell from which the SMS messages were sent at that time.

So this could carry consequences for the accuser.

However this concerns me:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2010/sep/09/harassment-warning-fair-hearing

Apparently the Police can issue a warning without even investigating the incident.

That isn't the same as a caution nor is it an implication of guilt. It does however show on CRB checks. That is, I suspect, when the ex is looking for with one eye on a future court hearing regarding contact.

Friend has not been arrested but has been asked to present at Police station to "sign a form".

Doesn't have a solicitor at present but sounds like a good time to get one.

My suggestion is to refuse to sign any such form, do not accept any caution, but provide a statement if requested along with mobile phone number so Police may carry out checks.

It's the word "form" that's bugging me. And that they can simply forego an investigation and imperil friend's rights if they choose to do so.

Any advice..

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sounds like signing a form will give a person "form". Form is Police Jargon for former or prior interest

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I'm pondering what happens when regardless, he now wants to press a claim for false allegations of harassment against her. You'd have thought that the Police would have to comply with that and log that complaint as a crime is alleged, and then be forced into investigating the matter "from both sides".

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Time for a solicitor if you ask me ,would not go anywhere near the police without one if i was in the same position plus it`s also making a statement of intent

The best thing i ever done when in a similar position to your mates was buy my kid a phone and have no contact whatsoever with their mother ...but i had the luxury of not having a problem with access

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Voluntarily go to a police station and 'sign a form' ... hahaha f*ck off.

Anyone who goes along with this needs their bump seeing to.

It's probably somehting like a PIN (police information notice) form - which has no legal authority, has no legal standing and you are under no legal obligation to receive one (say, if the pigs come around from a complaint from a neighbour etc).

A police request is just that - a request. You are under no legal obligation to follow it. I politely decline your request.

Yes, it does sound like she's trying to build a harrassment case, throw as much mud as possible so some will stick - then refer back to this 'pattern of behaviour' in later court proceedings, painting him as an abusive person and gaining a tactical advantage in the court arena.

He needs to tread very carefully, stay whiter-than-white. Make sure he does nothing that can be construed as harrassment. I would certainly take some legal advice.

Happy to talk via PM if you need to.

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Thanks for the advice - and, jfk, for your kind offer.

He's in no great hurry and seemingly nor are they.

Will report back.

Keep this thread up to date sir, you know my experiences with my ex and the family court system, so I have a particular interest in false harassment allegations, being subjected to it myself.

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I'm pondering what happens when regardless, he now wants to press a claim for false allegations of harassment against her. You'd have thought that the Police would have to comply with that and log that complaint as a crime is alleged, and then be forced into investigating the matter "from both sides".

Rereading this thread as I was on the ale last night and missed this.

Personally I would leave this angle for now. Your friend is still in the midst of family court proceedings / having contact issues? Concentrate on that for now. The harassment issues are peripheral to the child stuff. If harassment allegations occur, deal with them separately.

Also, interestingly, do you know that under the latest incarnation of the DV laws, all this coercive control etc, keeping you apart from your family (kids ) IMHO falls under this category. So, your friend would be advised to get it recorded by the police as an episode of DV by his ex. Be interesting to see how this plays out. Turn the table

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The court prescribed the contact order.

She frustrated it and then broke it.

It went back to court for enforcement. That was granted. A number of things she had asked for were struck out from the order.

Another thing she asked for was then declined.

However the order prescribes contact for several times in the year - school holidays, Christmas, etc and her game consists of leaving it until the last possible moment to respond so as to make it too late to book accommodation and making stipulations to which she is not entitled. Refusal to meet these stipulations means no contact.

This is frustration of the order and on the borderline of a breach of the order.

So far as she is concerned they are her children and what the court says is just a suggestion. The court saw differently and made this clear at the last enforcement, however her behaviour will not change. She is a fruit cake.

Friend wants more contact. Her objective is generally to find out what he wants and then see how she can deny it.

So it's going to have to go back to court again and this time to go to the extreme - dates, times, places and people all set down for several years enshrined in the order. I understand that a court may write the order like this but only in a last resort - for instance if he can show that without that level of prescriptive detail contact will continue to be frustrated.

The most likely reason for her trying to achieve a negative CRB record for him stems from the last contact in which she sent a relative to carry out handover, who kicked off, got himself banned from the venue, and a visit from the Police, so it's revenge also attempting to point to character issues to use later on when the checks reveal that the only CRB records pertain to the person she sent to do the handover.

I'll suggest to him to decline the Police request and to question to what extent the harassment allegations have been investigated already, provide his mobile number if they don't already have it, agree that if she is being harassed then clearly it's important that the matter is investigated although it has nothing to do with him and indeed an investigation shall prove so, and to request that they keep him updated.

It does appear that without his cooperation or agreement the Police can indeed issue a particular type of notice to avoid them the bother of investigating the matter which then does show on CRB checks even though it does not imply ant wrongdoing. She may well have got advice that this outcome is likely which is why she has taken this approach believing there can be no repercussions.

However as I see it, to make such an allegation ought to require the Police to investigate - since it's reporting a crime - and so therefore, this also ought to work in reverse. If she has alleged SMS messages have come from him, from his number, then that is a simple matter to prove or disprove. If investigated and disproven then I'm not sure how that can be defended - "Oh, I made a mistake".. I think not.

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Any advice..

The only advice in this thread should be see a solicitor*, you said he doesn't have one.

I think I gave this advice the last time you mentioned it. The main reason being that without one the other party will try all sorts on because they know they can get away with it.

* I'm not saying people shouldn't reply and give opinions and support.

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The court prescribed the contact order.

She frustrated it and then broke it.

It went back to court for enforcement. That was granted. A number of things she had asked for were struck out from the order.

Another thing she asked for was then declined.

However the order prescribes contact for several times in the year - school holidays, Christmas, etc and her game consists of leaving it until the last possible moment to respond so as to make it too late to book accommodation and making stipulations to which she is not entitled. Refusal to meet these stipulations means no contact.

This is frustration of the order and on the borderline of a breach of the order.

So far as she is concerned they are her children and what the court says is just a suggestion. The court saw differently and made this clear at the last enforcement, however her behaviour will not change. She is a fruit cake.

Friend wants more contact. Her objective is generally to find out what he wants and then see how she can deny it.

So it's going to have to go back to court again and this time to go to the extreme - dates, times, places and people all set down for several years enshrined in the order. I understand that a court may write the order like this but only in a last resort - for instance if he can show that without that level of prescriptive detail contact will continue to be frustrated.

The most likely reason for her trying to achieve a negative CRB record for him stems from the last contact in which she sent a relative to carry out handover, who kicked off, got himself banned from the venue, and a visit from the Police, so it's revenge also attempting to point to character issues to use later on when the checks reveal that the only CRB records pertain to the person she sent to do the handover.

I'll suggest to him to decline the Police request and to question to what extent the harassment allegations have been investigated already, provide his mobile number if they don't already have it, agree that if she is being harassed then clearly it's important that the matter is investigated although it has nothing to do with him and indeed an investigation shall prove so, and to request that they keep him updated.

It does appear that without his cooperation or agreement the Police can indeed issue a particular type of notice to avoid them the bother of investigating the matter which then does show on CRB checks even though it does not imply ant wrongdoing. She may well have got advice that this outcome is likely which is why she has taken this approach believing there can be no repercussions.

However as I see it, to make such an allegation ought to require the Police to investigate - since it's reporting a crime - and so therefore, this also ought to work in reverse. If she has alleged SMS messages have come from him, from his number, then that is a simple matter to prove or disprove. If investigated and disproven then I'm not sure how that can be defended - "Oh, I made a mistake".. I think not.

Sorry to hear that. Sounds awful. Having been through the family court system (twice) your friend more than has my understanding. More than happy to communicate via PM if you want to chat offline too (as we have done in the past).

The whole area of PINs is fraught with a legal mess. They have no legal standing, there is no requirement for any type of 'investigation' by the police. The PINs are worthless. However, they can show up on CRBs. Stupid isn't it.

This link on crimbebodge is interesting about PINs, have a read of it;

http://crimebodge.com/harassment-warnings-how-to-challenge-them/

Certainly if I was on the receiving end of such a piece of toilet paper I would follow the above advice.

I would tend to leave the Police issue alone - if the police are interested they will contact him. In the meantime he should take some advice from a solicitor specialising in criminal law, especially against police actions. They will tear them a new one. Only when / if the police contact him take it from there.

The contact issue is another thing. Yes she will frustrate and test the boundaries. It may be worthwhile getting the order specified, my court order is specified - it specifies the periods of the holidays and that collections/drop off should be from school.

You can get an order specified in this way if the current situation is not working. Handovers should also preferably be in public places (plenty of CCTV covering them), and your friend should covertly record any interactions / handovers / phone call - for proof against any later allegations.

Further advice is probably better sought from your friends local branch of Families Need Fathers ...

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Another thing that has occurred to me is that allegations of harrassment can sometimes lead a determined/unhinged/vindictive person to apply to the court for a Non-Molestation Order. Part of this would also be to claim Legal Aid.

So if the ex partner of your friend is going down this route he needs to be aware of this.

Any subsequent application for Legal Aid on the basis of false allegations (which are proven to be baseless/without foundation) should really be reported to the legal aid board / MP etc etc).

Hopefully it won't come to this.

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As it turned out, the Police have given him a Police Information Notice. They lied in answer to a direct question: "Will this show up on CRB checks, for instance by Cafcass?" and said "This won't be going any further". Or in other words, "We're not going to investigate this alleged crime".

The number allegedly sending the SMS messages is not his number.

He did receive a call from the Police more or less trying to get him to admit that "he did it".

So I'm helping him work on a formal complaint to and about the Police.

In the meantime, yes, I suspect she may well go for the "non molestation order" and legal aid. I was trying to establish how this works: does the allegation have to be proven for one to be granted, or is it simply granted because she has asked for it?

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He did receive a call from the Police more or less trying to get him to admit that "he did it".

He can thank the home secretary for that.. police need to get their prosecutions of men up regardless the actual victim :rolleyes:

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As it turned out, the Police have given him a Police Information Notice. They lied in answer to a direct question: "Will this show up on CRB checks, for instance by Cafcass?" and said "This won't be going any further". Or in other words, "We're not going to investigate this alleged crime".

The number allegedly sending the SMS messages is not his number.

He did receive a call from the Police more or less trying to get him to admit that "he did it".

So I'm helping him work on a formal complaint to and about the Police.

In the meantime, yes, I suspect she may well go for the "non molestation order" and legal aid. I was trying to establish how this works: does the allegation have to be proven for one to be granted, or is it simply granted because she has asked for it?

Fairly standard for the pigs not to know f*ck all.

Follow my link on the crimebodge website about challenging PINs. I wouldn't concentrate too much time and effort on a formal complaint, there is a police protocol to follow and they will just say they are doing that. Far better to engage your local MP to bring pressure to bear - and use the crimebodge method. DPA request, get it removed from the police national computer.

I would be concerned for your friend - this is a relatively minor thing, but the ex will make a mountain out of a molehill. Ooooo look , the police investigated! And he got a PIN!!!! blah blah.

Deal with this strategically, like a game of chess. We all know the family court system is a pile of crap and the biased organisations will no doubt treat mum as some sort of uber victim. IF this comes to play, then your friend can ask for the Court to make an order for full disclosure from the police of all FWINS (e.g. everything available) to all parties. Then, the option is available for the your friend to ask the Court if a Finding of Fact hearing is necessary - remember this is all in the context of how this impacts on the child's welfare. Answer - not much (although the ex is making a lot of it).

The process of applying for a NMO - there are a few, the usual method is someone is in immediate fear, they make an application ex parte (without the other party - e.g. by themselves), provide a bit of a sob story to a judge and a NMO is granted. HOWEVER, an ex parte NMO would normally be time-limited and state on the order the matter returned to court (usually 2 weeks) for the matter to be fully heard.

It's usually at that point an ex would apply for legal aid.

This is because of reforms to the legal aid funding - someone has to show they are a victim of DV for instance, what better way than to have a NMO granted! Perversely (although obviously) it's led to a rise in false accusations (my ex tried this route).

If legal aid is granted on the basis of false allegations then swift call to the legal aid board to have it removed , after all, it's an abuse of public money.

Remember the family courts work on the 'balance of probabilities' rather than the criminal burden of proof. e.g. who tells the best sob story.

Happy to help out in any way you need btw.

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As it turned out, the Police have given him a Police Information Notice. They lied in answer to a direct question: "Will this show up on CRB checks, for instance by Cafcass?" and said "This won't be going any further". Or in other words, "We're not going to investigate this alleged crime".

The number allegedly sending the SMS messages is not his number.

He did receive a call from the Police more or less trying to get him to admit that "he did it".

So I'm helping him work on a formal complaint to and about the Police.

In the meantime, yes, I suspect she may well go for the "non molestation order" and legal aid. I was trying to establish how this works: does the allegation have to be proven for one to be granted, or is it simply granted because she has asked for it?

Forgot to ask a couple of other things:

Your mate, he DID NOT sign for this PIN did he? You are under no legal obligation to sign any paperwork from the police and everyone should NEVER do this. See crimebodge about this.

Also, would have been interesting if your mate had recorded the telephone conversation with the police on this. I would always record any conversations with official bodies if I'm in a situation like this. Concrete proof of who said what - could be useful in turning the screws a bit on the police if making a formal complaint to the police about the conduct of one of their 'finest'. :rolleyes:

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