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The Difference Between The Private And Public Sectors


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working in the public sector is bad. it blunts peoples skills and they work in a fashion which would be totally unacceptable in a private company. the public sector is mechanistic and politically correct. It would be very difficult for people to have a career by traditional means as hard work and incentive are not rewarded.

I think we do require thatcher type reform for one simple reason we can't afford what we have. The waste , duplication and lack of productivity needs changing. I think public sector workers are treated like morons , so, they act like morons. Get rid of the silly management and release the potential of the people.

I hate to say it but I agree.most of the public-sector employees I have had to deal with will not over-step the boundaries of their job description.This is inherently bad.....whatever happened to initiative?

....scientists and engineers do not invent new things by sticking to the rules of years gone by,they do it by breaking them and exploring.

the same applies to working practices,times change so must people.

and some of the working practices are moronic.

.....it is totally possible to work 55 hours a week......and work hard......but achieve bugger all.Some people have this down to a fine art(I have met a few of them),.......but when you are paid by the results you achieve and have a deadline,it does concentrate the mind somewhat.

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I hate to say it but I agree.most of the public-sector employees I have had to deal with will not over-step the boundaries of their job description.This is inherently bad.....whatever happened to initiative?

....scientists and engineers do not invent new things by sticking to the rules of years gone by,they do it by breaking them and exploring.

the same applies to working practices,times change so must people.

and some of the working practices are moronic.

.....it is totally possible to work 55 hours a week......and work hard......but achieve bugger all.Some people have this down to a fine art(I have met a few of them),.......but when you are paid by the results you achieve and have a deadline,it does concentrate the mind somewhat.

I am going to have to stop replying to these public sector digs, but this is so not true. Not where I work anyway. I don't know about any other public sector but where I work we do our damndest. Can you please name and shame the actual department / council when you are complaining rather than slagging us all off? It would help!!! (By the way, I love the IR at the moment. They gave me back the fines I'd had to pay but I shouldn't have had to, without even being asked. I just expected them to thieve them and tell me I was liable even though I shouldn't be. Those are the little changes in attitude that make the difference. But I wouldn't expect this kind of change in attitude and practice if the function had been contracted out to a private company that was taking commission on the fines.)

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I am going to have to stop replying to these public sector digs, but this is so not true. Not where I work anyway. I don't know about any other public sector but where I work we do our damndest. Can you please name and shame the actual department / council when you are complaining rather than slagging us all off? It would help!!! (By the way, I love the IR at the moment. They gave me back the fines I'd had to pay but I shouldn't have had to, without even being asked. I just expected them to thieve them and tell me I was liable even though I shouldn't be. Those are the little changes in attitude that make the difference. But I wouldn't expect this kind of change in attitude and practice if the function had been contracted out to a private company that was taking commission on the fines.)

liz,please don't feel I am sniping at the people on the coalface too much,I'm sure there are some extremely hard-working folk in the public sector,just as there are in private.

A lot of the blame lies with the management and the unions......but the point I am making is EVERYBODY thinks they work hard.

some of the folks I have had to work with have spent ages on a very flash presentation,lovingly produced with technicolour graphs and forecasts.....which took them ages.

......but the forcasts count for sod all if the product they are trying to sell takes ages to get through manufacture and into a working system.

personally I don't have much skill when it comes to doing presentations like that.However,most of my job entails repairing the damage these guys have done by over-hyping their products....and now having customers breathing down their neck for deliveries.

I have built up a substantial track record in turning loss-making jobs into profitable ones over the years.That's what I mean by productive.The reputation I have is the most important tool in my box.....if I do a bad job then I don't get more business from them.

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but the point I am making is EVERYBODY thinks they work hard.

I take your point oracle but most of that kind of create a great slide-show is marketing rubbish that I have seen loads of in the private sector and little of in the public sector. Its just that the private sector doesn't need to be accountable and the public sector does. Most of the worst practices of the public sector are actually the aping of private sector higher management, creating your own importance by bigging up simple things, and management demanding private sector salaries when fantastic people will do it for less but don't get the chance, kind of b*llsh*t in my observation. Its all learned from the worst of private sector post structural age professionalisation tricks (there is still no way some of the big audit companies that are paid shedloads by the public sector would ever employ a redbrick graduate - the fact is, the Oximorons I have seen at work don't pay attention to detail and lack quality even as they audit me!!! I mean, critisise me all you want, but do it with fact not contrivances. But they do great slide shows).

The problems with the public sector now have everything to do with Thatcher and nothing to do with the Unions.

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Not accountable! - I work for a Local Authority and we are directly accountable to the public and elected members - however at Government Agency Level and County Council level there is no accountability at all - try and get those buggers on the phone!

The trouble is that those who slag us off actually have little idea about the structure of the public sector and the vast differences between the various organisations.

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Its just that the private sector doesn't need to be accountable and the public sector does.

If a private company stops being accountable to its customers or shareholders then it goes bankrupt Elizabeth. The problem is self-correcting, the whole basis of competition is providing alternatives and letting people choose the best.

A public organisation will try its hardest but deep down they know there is no competitive pressure on them, they will still have a job come what may.

You asked for an example, so lets look at the CSA, they have consistently failed in their duties since their inception, last year the running of the organisation cost more than it actually collected and distributed out. In essence they're a net drain or an obstacle in the way, they could abolish the organisation tomorrow and actually give out 50% more money to parents without any more cost to the public purse. This is the public sector at its worst and most damaging, they place more emphasis on bureaucratic inertia and maintaining their own pointless existence above the welfare of children.

They know their jobs will never be at risk no matter how big the failure, even total inability to carry out their core function, this is the example it sets to the entire public sector, in fact it demonstrates that the greater the failure and sheer incompetence the more resources you will get thrown at you. If a department manages to be useful they face punitive consequences with their future budget being cut to pay for their hapless collegaues.

If the entire country was run like this we'd be bankrupt, if a private company acts like this then we can choose to ignore it and do business elsewhere, eventually they will disappear, the same corrective mechanism doesn't exist in the public sector, we have no choice, we cannot go elsewhere or choose not to pay for it.

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..but the point I am making is EVERYBODY thinks they work hard.

Not me.

At the moment I am being paid just shy in two days what it took me to earn in five in my last job. I watch tv, study and drink cans of coke. Occassionally I do something productive. :P

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If the entire country was run like this we'd be bankrupt, if a private company acts like this then we can choose to ignore it and do business elsewhere, eventually they will disappear, the same corrective mechanism doesn't exist in the public sector, we have no choice, we cannot go elsewhere or choose not to pay for it.

spot on.....personally I think a little competition for these services would be healthy.

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If the entire country was run like this we'd be bankrupt, if a private company acts like this then we can choose to ignore it and do business elsewhere, eventually they will disappear, the same corrective mechanism doesn't exist in the public sector, we have no choice, we cannot go elsewhere or choose not to pay for it.

spot on.....personally I think a little competition for these services would be healthy.

There are private schools and private hospitals for those that are better than everyone else

and deserve special treatment.

The concept of competition in the private sector is somewhat a myth as there is a great deal of

cooperation going on covertly. As in the case of housing with mortgage lenders, surveyors, developers, estate agents and the media.

Housing is a great example of a market run for private gain, building poor quality apartments that no one wants instead of quality family homes, speculative greed pushing prices out of range for ordinary people,

people getting rich not for doing something useful but for ripping off the unwary, the mess the housing market is in right now is down to the quest for profits rather than social need.

The implications for the economy and society is dire if or when the housing market bubble pops,

recession, families and communities torn apart.

What for? to satisfy the greed of some people who wouldnt even have the intelligence or social concience

to realise the damage they have caused.

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There are private schools and private hospitals for those that are better than everyone else

and deserve special treatment.

But why should they only be for the rich and Labour MP's/ministers, of course, in terms of education there is selection based on money, relgion, geography but god forbid that a poor kid that is actually quite clever should be given a chance, that would be wrong, it would make people like Mr Prescott feel thick, so they should be condemned to some failing state school whilst little Timmy, who isn't really that bright at all, has a rich daddy who can afford to send him elsewhere. So much for Blair's new meritocracy.

In many Scandinavian countries the state gives parents a grant to spend and there is a wide selection of state, independent, relgious where you can go, where something other than money counts. Compare that to our system where people are sent off to the local crappy comp packed full of unionised teachers who are afraid of being outclassed.

One wonders why the public sector is so afraid of competition, if they're as good as they say they are then they have nothing to worry about.

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What for? to satisfy the greed of some people who wouldnt even have the intelligence or social concience

to realise the damage they have caused.

I don't think you can blame the people who make use of a money making opportunity. It's human nature to want the best for yourself and your family.

However, there has been a sad mis-allocation of capital into nasty 2 bed boxes. Personally I blame monetary policy for giving buyers twice as much money for the same monthly cost. Same number of houses, same number of buyers, twice the cash. No figure. It just injects money into particular parts of the economy creating asset bubbles and devaluing other people's earnings. The recession should have been allowed to happened and weed out the uncompetitive investments/businesses – but this is politics, and even Labour would have difficult spinning a recession as a good thing for the country.

And when you look at the quality of Prescott's planning attempts, the public sector alternative is not much better. (what happened to med/high density terraced housing? every likes it...)

The main thing to remember is this: take someone out of the workforce and pay them to be a "Dormouse Conservation Officer" or some such, two things happen - you lose a worker from the workforce, obviously, but you also lose the contribution of one other person who now needs to work full time to support that Conservation officer. So the economy has effectively lost two workers, and everyone gets poorer as a result.

A don’t see why the public sector cannot be run as aggressively as the private sector. It just take guts and resolve, and not being afraid of looking tough in the face of actions from the unions. Oh, forgot, we’ve got Blair in charge.

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I don't think you can blame the people who make use of a money making opportunity. It's human nature to want the best for yourself and your family.

However, there has been a sad mis-allocation of capital into nasty 2 bed boxes. Personally I blame monetary policy for giving buyers twice as much money for the same monthly cost. Same number of houses, same number of buyers, twice the cash. No figure. It just injects money into particular parts of the economy creating asset bubbles and devaluing other people's earnings. The recession should have been allowed to happened and weed out the uncompetitive investments/businesses – but this is politics, and even Labour would have difficult spinning a recession as a good thing for the country.

And when you look at the quality of Prescott's planning attempts, the public sector alternative is not much better. (what happened to med/high density terraced housing? every likes it...)

The main thing to remember is this: take someone out of the workforce and pay them to be a "Dormouse Conservation Officer" or some such, two things happen - you lose a worker from the workforce, obviously, but you also lose the contribution of one other person who now needs to work full time to support that Conservation officer. So the economy has effectively lost two workers, and everyone gets poorer as a result.

A don’t see why the public sector cannot be run as aggressively as the private sector. It just take guts and resolve, and not being afraid of looking tough in the face of actions from the unions. Oh, forgot, we’ve got Blair in charge.

I work in the public sector and am all for reforms, where I am we are currently going through

job evaluations, restructuring and implementing quality systems, I doubt it is just us, it is happening right

across the public sector. I am also in the union and I know that the union is all for change and improvements

as long as it is not just an excuse to sack people and cut their working conditions.

During the coming recession there will be people driving home to their families to big fancy houses in their porsches from money made out of the housing boom, stopping a traffic lights where guys with a bucket and

a sqeegie will rush up and clean their car windows, and he will think whatever happened to him that he has

sunk so low and will see no correlation to how they made their money and the effect it had on some people.

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I work in the public sector and am all for reforms, where I am we are currently going through

job evaluations, restructuring and implementing quality systems, I doubt it is just us, it is happening right

across the public sector.

So where are the 80,000 or so redundancies famously promised be Gordon Brown? Any news on this?

Reminds me of the double speak that seems to exist at the moment - funniest one I can think of is Transport for London getting rid of the buses with conductors because it's too expensive to employ 2 people on each bus. So that means that fares can go down, no? No, they went up. What's that all about then - surely we shoud reverse this change and save money? :blink:

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So where are the 80,000 or so redundancies famously promised be Gordon Brown? Any news on this?

Reminds me of the double speak that seems to exist at the moment - funniest one I can think of is Transport for London getting rid of the buses with conductors because it's too expensive to employ 2 people on each bus. So that means that fares can go down, no? No, they went up. What's that all about then - surely we shoud reverse this change and save money? :blink:

He obviously had second thoughts, like he did with SIPPS.

I guess the saving on getting rid of the conductors went on paying extra for fuel as the oil prices

went up. Result working people losing jobs while multinationals increased profits, nothing new there then.

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He obviously had second thoughts, like he did with SIPPS.

I guess the saving on getting rid of the conductors went on paying extra for fuel as the oil prices

went up. Result working people losing jobs while multinationals increased profits, nothing new there then.

The multinationals only make a margin based on the market price, most of the money is sent to flawed regimes so they extend patronage to people in order to destroy the self-same buses.

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Take 20 people and divide them into two groups. One group is told they will get the average wage for sticking stamps on letters. The other is told they will be paid per stamped letter......guess which group is more productive...........

It's amazing how many times Americans tell this kind of story when you chat to them in bars or at work. For them contracting the 'State' and reducing taxes is a mantra. I hate to admit they are right, but it is starting to look like the pigs have taken over UK farm.

Another example of the vast differnce between the Public Service and Private Enterprise can be seen whenever you visit the Local Council Offices to transact some business with them.

Invariably they will have car parks set aside for staff with signs warning "Staff Only" "Instant Tow Away" etc etc. Imagine going to Tesco's and finding the car-park Closed to all but the Staff! Sums up the Public Service attitude to customers (i.e. tax payers) nicely IMHO. It is clear that the Public Service exists to serve its staff rather than the paying public. Parasites - the lot of them.

In another little anecdotal story my wife took my daughter to the Council run NHS health centre on Sunday. What a mistake. Seen by moronic staff who could barely speak English, misdiagnosed by the incompetent Doctor and made to wait for several hours (useless staff chatting behind the counter and moving in slow motion whilst customers waited like third world refugees hoping to be granted the gift of seeing a Doctor - what a bunch of w*nkers). This morning she took my Daughter to a private clinic. Was treated politely, was seen immediately and was diagnosed correctly. I cannot understand why anyone would want to support and/or save the NHS - it has failed completely (another great example of well managed services provided by our glorious and benevolent Government all hail!) the sooner it is scrapped the better. Do people realise how much they pay for this worse than third word health care? I'd rather have the money and the choice of where to spend it.

Actually the same goes for Schools. Only the poor or the foolish would send their children to a state school.

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The concept of competition in the private sector is somewhat a myth as there is a great deal of

cooperation going on covertly. As in the case of housing with mortgage lenders, surveyors, developers, estate agents and the media.

OMG you are kidding!!!

they are DESPERATELY trying to steal market share from each other....and anyone that falls behind gets a total kicking,and will have their remains picked over and asset-stripped.

an overall rising market won't show you these traits in full,but a falling market certainly will!!!....this is where it gets nasty.

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Another example of the vast differnce between the Public Service and Private Enterprise can be seen whenever you visit the Local Council Offices to transact some business with them.

Invariably they will have car parks set aside for staff with signs warning "Staff Only" "Instant Tow Away" etc etc. Imagine going to Tesco's and finding the car-park Closed to all but the Staff! Sums up the Public Service attitude to customers (i.e. tax payers) nicely IMHO. It is clear that the Public Service exists to serve its staff rather than the paying public. Parasites - the lot of them.

In another little anecdotal story my wife took my daughter to the Council run NHS health centre on Sunday. What a mistake. Seen by moronic staff who could barely speak English, misdiagnosed by the incompetent Doctor and made to wait for several hours (useless staff chatting behind the counter and moving in slow motion whilst customers waited like third world refugees hoping to be granted the gift of seeing a Doctor - what a bunch of w*nkers). This morning she took my Daughter to a private clinic. Was treated politely, was seen immediately and was diagnosed correctly. I cannot understand why anyone would want to support and/or save the NHS - it has failed completely (another great example of well managed services provided by our glorious and benevolent Government all hail!) the sooner it is scrapped the better. Do people realise how much they pay for this worse than third word health care? I'd rather have the money and the choice of where to spend it.

Actually the same goes for Schools. Only the poor or the foolish would send their children to a state school.

Wherever you worked you would expect to have somewhere to park.

If car parks are not big enough for visitors its hardly their fault, if they bought land for visitor parking they would be accused of wasting taxpayers money.

The crises in the NHS is of the governments own making. New Labour never allocated enough resources

to make up for the years of cutting and neglect the NHS had to endure under the tories.

Was the private clinic the same as the one near me, where they use a modern wing of the NHS

hospital built with tax payers money.

Same goes for schools.

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Wherever you worked you would expect to have somewhere to park.

If car parks are not big enough for visitors its hardly their fault, if they bought land for visitor parking they would be accused of wasting taxpayers money.

The crises in the NHS is of the governments own making. New Labour never allocated enough resources

to make up for the years of cutting and neglect the NHS had to endure under the tories.

Was the private clinic the same as the one near me, where they use a modern wing of the NHS

hospital built with tax payers money.

Same goes for schools.

what I DO object to is going into BUPA and finding that the consultant is moonlighting from the NHS.

I DO go private and have had this happen......to be fair I think it is out of order.

NHS empolyees should have "sole employment" clauses in their contracts.

....that way it's either one or the other.....it isn't right that consultants/GP's etc trained WITH OUR MONEY should shirk their responsibility to the taxpayer....if they wish to contract out after 10 years or so that's fair enough...as long as they remove the NHS safety net and have to take risk like the rest of the freelancers I know.

....

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The concept of competition in the private sector is somewhat a myth as there is a great deal of

cooperation going on covertly. As in the case of housing with mortgage lenders, surveyors, developers, estate agents and the media.

OMG you are kidding!!!

they are DESPERATELY trying to steal market share from each other....and anyone that falls behind gets a total kicking,and will have their remains picked over and asset-stripped.

an overall rising market won't show you these traits in full,but a falling market certainly will!!!....this is where it gets nasty.

There is some competition with each other but collusion among differing but dependant services

as when developers get surveyors to overvalue property and lenders turn a blind eye and estate agents

go along with it. This sort of thing makes a mockery of the whole idea of a free market.

Agreed, when the market falls it will be every man for himself, climbing over each other and dressing up as women to get in one of the lifeboats.

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I take your point oracle but most of that kind of create a great slide-show is marketing rubbish that I have seen loads of in the private sector and little of in the public sector. Its just that the private sector doesn't need to be accountable and the public sector does. Most of the worst practices of the public sector are actually the aping of private sector higher management, creating your own importance by bigging up simple things, and management demanding private sector salaries when fantastic people will do it for less but don't get the chance, kind of b*llsh*t in my observation. Its all learned from the worst of private sector post structural age professionalisation tricks (there is still no way some of the big audit companies that are paid shedloads by the public sector would ever employ a redbrick graduate - the fact is, the Oximorons I have seen at work don't pay attention to detail and lack quality even as they audit me!!! I mean, critisise me all you want, but do it with fact not contrivances. But they do great slide shows).

The problems with the public sector now have everything to do with Thatcher and nothing to do with the Unions.

Elizabeth, do you have verbal or written contact with the general public?

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The concept of competition in the private sector is somewhat a myth as there is a great deal of

cooperation going on covertly. As in the case of housing with mortgage lenders, surveyors, developers, estate agents and the media.

OMG you are kidding!!!

they are DESPERATELY trying to steal market share from each other....and anyone that falls behind gets a total kicking,and will have their remains picked over and asset-stripped.

an overall rising market won't show you these traits in full,but a falling market certainly will!!!....this is where it gets nasty.

There is some competition with each other but collusion among differing but dependant services

as when developers get surveyors to overvalue property and lenders turn a blind eye and estate agents

go along with it. This sort of thing makes a mockery of the whole idea of a free market.

Agreed, when the market falls it will be every man for himself, climbing over each other and dressing up as women to get in one of the lifeboats.

the collusion really isn't there.....everybody is happy to take a ride on the gravy train for sure,but the crux of it is that you want to be top dog.

when the market rises all you get is a few feeble challenges and maybe a friendly alliance.

when the market falls it's a fight to the death....even with a supposed friend(of the fairweather type)

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Housing is a great example of a market run for private gain, building poor quality apartments that no one wants instead of quality family homes, speculative greed pushing prices out of range for ordinary people,

people getting rich not for doing something useful but for ripping off the unwary, the mess the housing market is in right now is down to the quest for profits rather than social need.

Housing is an example of the worst of both worlds, the untempered nature of private enterprise and the ineptness and short-termism of state.

The real problem with housing isn't the bricks and mortar that eventually decay but with land, in many areas land price inflation has actually been in excess of HPI, so developers who weren't fortunate enough to have bought pre-boom land have to deal with land acquisition costs that form a greater proportion of their outlay, this is why we've seen the proliferation of flats as developers seek higher returns on precious land. By 'developers' I obviously mean professional builders not a set of wannabes who paint everything beige. We're going to see real problems with some developers who have bought land at daft prices in the expectation of silly house prices, to them it isn't a matter of greed but simply covering their costs, the urban flats are going to be a blood bath, even the building societies know this regardless of their bullishness.

The drive for flats isn't simply a function of the market, that just reflects constraints, the real problem has been government imposed density targets and endless blocks eagerly approved by councils hungry for council tax take without providing the requisite infrastructure to compensate. Developers generally don't like brown field sites, and when it comes to family housing the demand isn't there either, yet this has been pushed as the mainstream as the planning system has created an artificial shortage of an otherwise plentful resource, only 6% of the UK is classified as 'urban' yet if you try and obtain planning permission on greenfield sites you will be accused of "concreting over the countryside", out of interest only 1% of land is used for roads, motorways and trunkroads only form a fraction of that.

Anyway, De Beers would be proud, except in this case the constraints don't involve balancing markets but they are imposed by government, the planning system and hysterical locals.

The illusion of shortage is the germ at the heart of this property bubble, despite the obvious demand destruction it's still used as a justification today when combined with migration figures from Eastern Europe... except somebody forgot to tell the 'experts' that Polish migrants working for £7 an hour cannot afford all those £250k luxury apartments, not until they're turned into social housing, and they will be, en masse.

Edited by BuyingBear
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what I DO object to is going into BUPA and finding that the consultant is moonlighting from the NHS.

I DO go private and have had this happen......to be fair I think it is out of order.

NHS empolyees should have "sole employment" clauses in their contracts.

....that way it's either one or the other.....it isn't right that consultants/GP's etc trained WITH OUR MONEY should shirk their responsibility to the taxpayer....if they wish to contract out after 10 years or so that's fair enough...as long as they remove the NHS safety net and have to take risk like the rest of the freelancers I know.

....

So the private healthcare infrastructure and consultants/GP`s are paid for out of tax payers money.

The taxpayer has to pay additional money to get access to it and the profits go into private hands.

Public costs, private profits happens in lots of other areas as well.

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  • 439 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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