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Le Grande Fromage

The Bumper Btl Anecdotal Thread.

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As some of you may know Im a handyman (as well as a LL grrrrrr!) and 90% of my work comes though letting agencies .Im seeing an increasing amount of landlords selling as new rules with water testing,smoke alarms and carbon monoxide alarms are filtering down and costing them,Im doing more and more light refurbs to sell the property rather than paint one room and re let it ,the general feel is its going to get a lot harder to rent properties,the next 18 months will be interesting!

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As some of you may know Im a handyman (as well as a LL grrrrrr!) and 90% of my work comes though letting agencies .Im seeing an increasing amount of landlords selling as new rules with water testing,smoke alarms and carbon monoxide alarms are filtering down and costing them,Im doing more and more light refurbs to sell the property rather than paint one room and re let it ,the general feel is its going to get a lot harder to rent properties,the next 18 months will be interesting!

:D

Regarding the nature and purpose of the work you're being offered by landlords - that's interesting. Given your willingness to share good news I can overlook a little landlordism, provided your leverage is relatively low, ;) .

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None are selling due to the impending tax changes...? They are genuinely folding due to other lighter regulations? Or is a case of getting rid before incurring additional expenditure when the long term future is gone anyway, like eg selling a car if it needs new tyres a couple of months before the MOT expires anyway.

I suppose as someone who would consider buying a distressed BTLer property, for the right price, the presence of equipment for HMO regulatory compliance might make it more hassle and/or costly to revert it to a family residence so I guess that means a lower price.

On balance, I'd advise them all to sell now.

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Do you find owners more likely than landlords to do big work?

I only deal with LL's really,they never do there own work,they rent a place out riddled with grumbles,the place gets rented then a long list rolls in from the tenant with the problems the owners know about,I then pop in and fix them,the worst LL are the ones who live overseas,they think its acceptable to pay me 2-4 months late for work,I now charge them an overseas LL tax (I hike the job 20%) went to a job the other week, tenant with no fridge freezer for a week as the LL was faffing,I turn up,tenant says "he lives in Hong Kong" and it takes days for the agent to get hold of him I hit him for a 20% tax and true to an overseas LL he paid me 2 months late!

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:D

Regarding the nature and purpose of the work you're being offered by landlords - that's interesting. Given your willingness to share good news I can overlook a little landlordism, provided your leverage is relatively low, ;) .

Not over stretched at all, hate debt and the stress it causes, lucky to be 46 and started in 1991!,TBH Landlords I deal with are arrogant over levereraged twats,but I make very good money out of them as they are also lazy!

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None are selling due to the impending tax changes...? They are genuinely folding due to other lighter regulations? Or is a case of getting rid before incurring additional expenditure when the long term future is gone anyway, like eg selling a car if it needs new tyres a couple of months before the MOT expires anyway.

I suppose as someone who would consider buying a distressed BTLer property, for the right price, the presence of equipment for HMO regulatory compliance might make it more hassle and/or costly to revert it to a family residence so I guess that means a lower price.

On balance, I'd advise them all to sell now.

That would be akin to saying I fecked up there...we will blame the Co detectors instead

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We got turfed out of the rental property we were in, a poxy 3 bed nearly-new thing (the most basic of the shoeboxes), so that they could sell. Well, they didn't serve us notice but we left as the viewings were intrusive.

That was in June last year. It's on the market at £165k, but I don't think it's worth more than £150k even at current valuations. I was chatting to the landlady recently, and she revealed they 'needed' £160k to make the sale work. They've been offered £155k and she was apparently insulted by the offer. I didn't mention that she was mad to have turned them down. They've lost nearly £5k in rent already, the estate is getting more tired by the day, prices are not going in the right direction... she needs to wake up.

A friend who lives nearby bought his for £260k in 2008, and reckons he wouldn't get £225k for it now.

Up here in Lancashire, there had been no HPI for nearly a decade.

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Noticed tis one in my local searches. 6 flats in one semi-detached house, partly let out, recent fire alarm system but put on the market a couple of months ago. Looks very tired. Obviously don;t know anything about the situation but I guess this is exactly the sort of Triber/118er type stuff which will be being disposed of. Have to be a lot cheaper than that to make a reversion to a family home a viable project imo, plenty of ready-made competition nearby. I wouldn't take on a tenanted property either.

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Our 100% cash offer to buy our family home (we're in rented) was rejected this morning as it was "substantially below" the offer made by the person buying it to let it out. Apparently he's in a hurry to complete before 1st April. We were the only two buyers interested.

It's annoying but I take solace in the fact they overpaid (probably) by about £15K in order to save about £15K. Twits.

It's yet another story that proves that house prices are inflated by the people-farmers.

:-(

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Our 100% cash offer to buy our family home (we're in rented) was rejected this morning as it was "substantially below" the offer made by the person buying it to let it out. Apparently he's in a hurry to complete before 1st April. We were the only two buyers interested.

It's annoying but I take solace in the fact they overpaid (probably) by about £15K in order to save about £15K. Twits.

It's yet another story that proves that house prices are inflated by the people-farmers.

:-(

Very annoying, but may in the fullness of time turn out to be a blessing in disguise. If you have the cash to buy you have the option to hunker down and see how things play out as Osborne's attack on BTL starts to bite. Maybe house prices continue to inflate, maybe they don't. If you'll forgive me for pointing out the obvious, you can't avoid risk, but you can sometimes choose the risks you take. Probably not a good time to be chasing the market up with cold cash when competing against people gambling borrowed money on a supposed one-way bet on UK house prices. That said, moving is very annoying and moving just so that the investment preferences of some BTL herbert can be satisfied is very, very annoying.

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Our 100% cash offer to buy our family home (we're in rented) was rejected this morning as it was "substantially below" the offer made by the person buying it to let it out. Apparently he's in a hurry to complete before 1st April. We were the only two buyers interested.

It's annoying but I take solace in the fact they overpaid (probably) by about £15K in order to save about £15K. Twits.

It's yet another story that proves that house prices are inflated by the people-farmers.

:-(

No need to worry, just bump up your offer and then pull out later when there is not enough time for the BTL to complete in time.

All is fair in love, war and mortgage finance.

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Actually there is a massive potential for totally unacceptable conduct that we should all disapprove of. For example, somebody connected to the renter could, and we should all disapprove of this, pose as another BTLer. They could gazump the current BTLer, string along the owner for a bit and then pull out. The renter would then be back with their same (or lower) offer once the SDLT changes bite. I hope that all current landlords hoping to sell before April are clued up to this possibility, which we should all decry as immoral an unconscionable conduct.

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Thanks for your perspectives.

Of course the vendor will sell to the higher offer. They'd be daft not to. That's not what's irksome. What makes me sad is the careless way the BTLer throws cheap money about. Even some pretence on their part of only just exceeding our offer would have made me feel better.

It crossed my mind to see if we could do what those clever people do on the TV show and "see if we could get it for the asking price" only to pull out at a critical moment before April 1st. Can't quite manage it myself although I think it's an excellent idea.

My heartfelt thanks to the people of this forum. An oasis of sense and a respite from the desert of financially self-interested, immoral, short-sighted ****wits.

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We were forced out from our rental property a short time ago. In our case not a BTL but parents buying a home for their young son and DIL.

Also made offers to buy the property but all were turned down. The LL wanted the full asking price and not prepared to negotiate. I've not seen the Landlegistry as yet to see if he got it in the end.

We met the new owners and they commented "oh we hope you had somewhere to go" as it was a just after Xmas completion. Of course we didn't. The stupidity to think that tenants would be able to organise a home move around the public holidays, find somewhere else to live, removal companies with public holidays. Let alone wrecking our own Xmas plans.

They don't care. The parents paid for it. We think that they paid well over the odds. Took the LL a long time to sell that house.

We have also been outbid by the BTL brigade as well. Seen house, put in offers and then seen the same properties come up for rent after.

Are you going to stay on as tenants or was this another separate property who were hoping to buy?

Edited by Flopsy

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We'll stay as tenants. Slightly troubled that the LL has had three estate agents around the house "for valuation for insurance purposes" and we're feeling unsettled. Also we just want to put pictures up. We'll have to buy. We sold up to rent 5 years ago and the time has come to move on.

Flopsy, that's horrible treatment you've had to put up with. Have you seen the wonderful https://houseprices.io/ which has most December transactions on it?

Isn't it miserable to see "lack of supply" touted as the reason for HPI?

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...and if one more estate agent says "you're a cash buyer - that puts you in a good position". I might barf.

No it doesn't. It means we've set our limit and will not borrow to outbid other people. It's enough money. The world has gone mad. Not me. Although give it a few more weeks of bonkers asking prices and I'll need that ebay straghtjacket.

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Call me a liar but I think if the time came to sell our house and move on, I would definitely consider selling at a lower price to a more genuine buyer (by which I mean a non BTL-er). I did also wonder whether you could add something legally binding to stop the person ever letting it out.

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The place I rent has been sold (STC). This is a 2 bed terrace c. 1980s in East Bristol. We had about 4 viewings come round 4 days ago, and it's SSTC for more than the asking price to someone who wants to live in it.

The landlord started renting it out when he moved away for another job. It was on the market for a few months, but they decided to rent it out. I don't know whether it was to jump on the BTL wagon, or whether they needed to release equity in a hurry via a BTL mortgage. Anyway, my calculations seem to tell me that they've made very little capital gain on the place. Anyone care to check my workings?...

Purchased in 2003 for £117,500, and sold STC for over the asking price of £179,000 (unfortunately, I don't know how much over). I make that a nominal 3.37 % p.a. return based on a sale at the asking price; adjust that for inflation, and he's made 0.28 % p.a. in real terms. If they've offered, say, 10 % more, that's still a return in real terms of not much more than 1 %. Of course, there is then the question of fees. Taking off the agent's 1 % cut (and there's a good chance it may be more), and we're down to 0.92 % p.a. in real terms. Just the solicitor's fee to take from that, and what's left is pure profit.

I get the feeling that he's bolted for the exit after reading of the impending BTL mortgage tax changes and the possibility of a flood of BTLs hitting the market. I'd imagine he's into the 40 % tax bracket from his day job alone, so he would feel the pinch if he's got any finance on the property - and I suspect he has. If he'd gone the whole hog with the finance, I'd imagine his profit from rents after tax would not be much more than a hundred pounds per annum once the new tax regime is fully implemented, and that doesn't allow for anything other than very basic maintenance.

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