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Speye's Analysis Of (Social) Housing Into 2016

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Not sure I entirely agree with some of the conclusions.

The good times are over for landlords that specialise in benefit family claimants certainly

Rents will have to fall. Why socialists think this is a bad thing is beyond me.

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"The ubiquitous 3 bed and larger social housing properties that make up 36% of all social housing stock is financially toxic and cannot be afforded by the tenant who is not working – those unemployed, sick and disabled."


Or could be homes for 3X more people using HMO. if it's good enough for the private sector then why not social housing?

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"The ubiquitous 3 bed and larger social housing properties that make up 36% of all social housing stock is financially toxic and cannot be afforded by the tenant who is not working – those unemployed, sick and disabled."

Or could be homes for 3X more people using HMO. if it's good enough for the private sector then why not social housing?

Just looking at houses in Cornwall and the people who are renting these places can't afford to buy them even if the price was reduced by 50% They will go from getting £400.00 LHA to negative £600 when they buy... £1,000 difference!

They may be work shy scroungers, but they ain't stupid.

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"The ubiquitous 3 bed and larger social housing properties that make up 36% of all social housing stock is financially toxic and cannot be afforded by the tenant who is not working – those unemployed, sick and disabled."

Or could be homes for 3X more people using HMO. if it's good enough for the private sector then why not social housing?

Why just 3X. Why not 10x slum tenements with outside toilets?

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He's not a happy bunny !:

The immediate term policies of something as stable as where 36% of the UK population live, and only focusing on the 64% who are now home owners is simply madness and very much to the deteriment of the country at large. Even if all the current Government bungs of RTB and HomeBuy etc., are taken up to reach the top of the housing ladder we will never go above 66% or 67% home ownership levels ever again which still leaves 33% – 34% well and truly ******ed by this Government’s housing policy of home ownership or die.

It is actually an interesting analysis - I don't really understand the intricacies of social housing at this level so it's handy to have a precis of how it all works - or doesn't.

At this point in time I can't see anything other than social housing helping us through and out of this mess, so even if you allow for exaggerated claims of hardship, or some easing of pressure on rent through the reductions, it really doesn't sound good.

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I wonder if there will end up being a situation where it becomes more attractive for social housing providers to rent to those in work, earning a higher wage than would normally be associated with social housing (especially with the future introduction of Pay to Stay) and the PRS becomes the tenure of necessity for those on benefits? In a way this makes more sense as security of tenure to those in work is in many ways more important than security of tenure to those who don't work - they don't need to be near to a non-existent workplace and no necessity to be housed in an expensive location to be near to non-existent work.

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I wonder if there will end up being a situation where it becomes more attractive for social housing providers to rent to those in work, earning a higher wage than would normally be associated with social housing (especially with the future introduction of Pay to Stay) and the PRS becomes the tenure of necessity for those on benefits? In a way this makes more sense as security of tenure to those in work is in many ways more important than security of tenure to those who don't work - they don't need to be near to a non-existent workplace and no necessity to be housed in an expensive location to be near to non-existent work.

Wow - that's cynical ! With worrying amounts of logic.

I think a lot of these terms are severely compromised anyway. What exactly is a 'Private' RS sustained by HB ? moderated by social housing ? What is 'Affordable Housing'? Isn't Help to Buy a sort of social housing for the middle and upper incomes ?

The 'market' has failed, all we're doing is compounding it to the extreme by trying to eliminate social housing.

Perhaps it's also just a power struggle, superficially ideological, over land. Until it collapses the majority are just going to keep on losing.

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Wow - that's cynical ! With worrying amounts of logic.

I think a lot of these terms are severely compromised anyway. What exactly is a 'Private' RS sustained by HB ? moderated by social housing ? What is 'Affordable Housing'? Isn't Help to Buy a sort of social housing for the middle and upper incomes ?

The 'market' has failed, all we're doing is compounding it to the extreme by trying to eliminate social housing.

Perhaps it's also just a power struggle, superficially ideological, over land. Until it collapses the majority are just going to keep on losing.

I think the main policy is to make all housing, both social and PRS unaffordable and insecure so that most people don't put up a fight (for fear of being evicted), so you have a very docile, fear-ridden group. The Tories are very obviously trying to destroy social housing by selling it off and their logic is instead of making all housing cheaper (which any sensible government would do), they are going to make social housing expensive and insecure with the full support of social housing providers who can then make a profit and turn their model into a very slightly more secure version of the PRS. It's really sad and depressing but nobody in government will ever be affected by this so they really don't care in anything except lining the pockets of themselves and their donors.

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Social Housing in the North East has mostly been passed out to ALMO's who have become HA's.Most of these houses were paid for decades ago.These ALMO's/HAs have increased rents at RPI+ for a long time.Most of the money goes on massive salaries for employees and benefits packages that win awards for "Best Place to Work".Also being involved in things outside of providing houses.

http://www.b.co.uk/Company/Profile/306424/

Now that we have seen the spare room subsidy cut and rents cut in the budget these sorts of excess will be hard to keep up.It should also me noted the budget also included buried in welfare reform single room rates will only be paid for new tenants under 35 in social housing,the same as for the private sector/LHA.Its 100% certain once this beds in this single person rate will be increased from 35 year old to 45,55,retirement age going forward.

The HAs are now trapped at both ends.Younger/single end means single room rate applies and pushes those people away from Social Housing.The spare room subsidy cut means nobody wants 3 bed houses once their children leave home.(and if the single room rate does shoot up to 45,55+ age group in future social housing for single people on benefits will be off limits).

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Social Housing in the North East has mostly been passed out to ALMO's who have become HA's.Most of these houses were paid for decades ago.These ALMO's/HAs have increased rents at RPI+ for a long time.Most of the money goes on massive salaries for employees and benefits packages that win awards for "Best Place to Work".Also being involved in things outside of providing houses.

http://www.b.co.uk/Company/Profile/306424/

Now that we have seen the spare room subsidy cut and rents cut in the budget these sorts of excess will be hard to keep up.It should also me noted the budget also included buried in welfare reform single room rates will only be paid for new tenants under 35 in social housing,the same as for the private sector/LHA.Its 100% certain once this beds in this single person rate will be increased from 35 year old to 45,55,retirement age going forward.

The HAs are now trapped at both ends.Younger/single end means single room rate applies and pushes those people away from Social Housing.The spare room subsidy cut means nobody wants 3 bed houses once their children leave home.(and if the single room rate does shoot up to 45,55+ age group in future social housing for single people on benefits will be off limits).

I would guess that HA's will have to run house-share schemes for their own stock. St Vincent's Housing Association already has a scheme sorting out rooms in PRS house-shares for under 25s.

They would have to have more flexible tenancies, but given the changes to social housing tenure coming in, that wouldn't be a huge leap.

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I wonder if there will end up being a situation where it becomes more attractive for social housing providers to rent to those in work, earning a higher wage than would normally be associated with social housing (especially with the future introduction of Pay to Stay) and the PRS becomes the tenure of necessity for those on benefits? In a way this makes more sense as security of tenure to those in work is in many ways more important than security of tenure to those who don't work - they don't need to be near to a non-existent workplace and no necessity to be housed in an expensive location to be near to non-existent work.

Interestingly having this debate with my housing officer, our ALMO recently redesignated where I live from being for quieter older seniors to well anyone and its caused a lot of problems with anti-social behaviour, drugs, domestic violence, dog shit you name it, and I'm looking to move on and perhaps buy somewhere.

She is delighted the government has clamped down on younger housing benefit entitlement as quite frankly they are a pain to manage, cause endless problems. Sadly the waiting lists seem to be full of them.

Another flat has just become available as the elderly tenant has gone into a home, I look forward to the wafts of skunk weed, barking shitting dogs, and sound of fighting and arguments in a few weeks time.

I'd be delighted if younger working people took up the offer of some quite excellent flats, but not unsurprisingly they are not interested. So they go to pyschopathic drug abusers. Social housing is doomed.

There is the other problem that where there is a surplus of social housing, ain't where the jobs are. Need a lot more of it in London.

Damn shame that those that game the system and quite frankly don't deserve anything can 'win' a flat and a tenancy which many in the PRS would give right arms for.

Edited by RentierParadisio

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I would guess that HA's will have to run house-share schemes for their own stock. St Vincent's Housing Association already has a scheme sorting out rooms in PRS house-shares for under 25s.

They would have to have more flexible tenancies, but given the changes to social housing tenure coming in, that wouldn't be a huge leap.

Yes they might have to do that going forward but its quite hard for HAs to offer shared housing at low rents.They much prefer farming those out to the private sector like you say.

I think the shared room rate LHA in Sunderland for instance is about £48 a week.I dont have their rates for 1 bed flats but id expect at least £70+.

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Yes they might have to do that going forward but its quite hard for HAs to offer shared housing at low rents.They much prefer farming those out to the private sector like you say.

I think the shared room rate LHA in Sunderland for instance is about £48 a week.I dont have their rates for 1 bed flats but id expect at least £70+.

One bed flat / studio here £65 social rent. Market rents not much higher.

More efficient for private landlords to offer shared accommodation, for example the student landlord firms offer expensive shared housing but of a very high standard.

But shared housing is 'hands on.' So not for the professional investor

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http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/researchingsociology/2015/12/31/for-whom-the-bell-tolls-its-us-again-the-working-class/


by Lisa Mckenzie, Research Fellow in the LSE Sociology Department


house-demolition-300x150.jpgPhew… what a relief the House of Lords have recently stepped in and saved us from George Osborne’s attack upon those hard working families that all political parties like to tell us are out there. Not shirkers but the strivers – those who are working hard for their families. If we were to play Party Political Bingo (as I often do) ‘hard working families’ is dobbed, and ‘doing the right thing’ is double dobbed. It was the outcry from MPs on all sides of the House, charities, and then the House of Lords (‘the other place’ which is not usually known for its support of British working class people) that forced the Chancellor of the Exchequer to undertake an incredible U turn and end his plans (for now) to take his austere axe on tax credits for those hard working families. After all, one nation conservatism is at the vanguard of the moral authority, ensuring those hard working families are rewarded for doing the right thing.


Luckily we had the House of Lords to remind them of that, but who now is reminding them that without a safe and secure home, and knowing that you can put down roots for your family, and that your children can stay at the same school for more than a year, life for millions of people will become unbearable? Sadly being unable to make long term plans because of the precariousness of your housing situation, fear of your landlord, and terrified of the men in the yellow hats with the yellow tripod pitching up on your estate is a common experience now. Daring to dream that you can stay in the community where you have family, friends and support is becoming beyond the poorest families’ imagination – the reality of the consequences of the poverty of hope. There is no doubt that housing, and the lack of homes for people who want to live in them is increasingly at the forefront of most peoples in minds in Britain today – whether you are living on a council estate, or in the suburbs.


The cost of having a safe and stable home is becoming untenable, both financially and emotionally. Being homeless makes you ill, as does the fear of homelessness. So as the Chancellor a few weeks ago reprieved the threat to tax credits and we learned that topping up poverty pay would fight another day, what many of us didn’t hear is that social housing is now on death row. The housing situation that we know is already in crisis is about to become much worse. Looking closely at the banally named ‘Housing and Planning Bill’ which should be more appropriately named ‘shock and awe’ is truly terrifying. There is no provision or future plan for any social housing in Britain, unless you call dismantling, undermining, and flogging off all of our social housing. a plan. The Bill advocates selling off all ‘high value property’ that becomes vacant- we can say goodbye to all social housing in London, where a two bedroomed ex-council flat in Kensington recently sold for over a million pounds. There is also a change in regulations regarding ‘high income social tenants’ who may be liable to pay market rent, and the Bill insists that housing providers make provision for people with different incomes to pay different rents, in simple terms this is the means testing of social housing. But most worrying of all is that all of the regulations relating to planning and housing can be defined, determined or overruled by the Secretary of State.


The new Shock and Awe bill for social housing is not only unfair, damaging, and frankly cruel, it also a method of de-democratising our local communities. The final reading for this legislation that truly sounds the alarm of class war is on the 5th January 2016. I doubt we can stop it. Lets look forward to 2016, homelessness, sub-prime mortgages, children constantly moving from home to home, and evictions.


Happy New Year





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Not keen on the class war stuff myself - I'd rather the government distance themselves from their policy course than be entrenched by it. It's neither right or left wing, it may serve a few vested interests but it damages all 'classes' in other words the nation as a whole.

It's enough to say that there is chronic market failure exacerbated by current policy and draining the economy as a whole, probably only addressable through social housing in the short to medium term,and through a complete revision of how the land market operates in the long term.

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Interestingly having this debate with my housing officer, our ALMO recently redesignated where I live from being for quieter older seniors to well anyone and its caused a lot of problems with anti-social behaviour, drugs, domestic violence, dog shit you name it, and I'm looking to move on and perhaps buy somewhere.

She is delighted the government has clamped down on younger housing benefit entitlement as quite frankly they are a pain to manage, cause endless problems. Sadly the waiting lists seem to be full of them.

Another flat has just become available as the elderly tenant has gone into a home, I look forward to the wafts of skunk weed, barking shitting dogs, and sound of fighting and arguments in a few weeks time.

I'd be delighted if younger working people took up the offer of some quite excellent flats, but not unsurprisingly they are not interested. So they go to pyschopathic drug abusers. Social housing is doomed.

There is the other problem that where there is a surplus of social housing, ain't where the jobs are. Need a lot more of it in London.

Damn shame that those that game the system and quite frankly don't deserve anything can 'win' a flat and a tenancy which many in the PRS would give right arms for.

Again, as I mentioned in the 'homeless in London' thread, the last 30 years social policy has given points to people for being dysfunctional. The more fcked up and useless you are the more you 'win' in social benefits.

It should stop. Dead.

You get these estates which are made up of the ice council house tenants from the 60,s who are are little old ladies and basically chavscum. There's nothing in between - little old ladies and 20 year single mums with fetal aclo kids and bazza in + out of prison.

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Not keen on the class war stuff myself - I'd rather the government distance themselves from their policy course than be entrenched by it. It's neither right or left wing, it may serve a few vested interests but it damages all 'classes' in other words the nation as a whole.

It's enough to say that there is chronic market failure exacerbated by current policy and draining the economy as a whole, probably only addressable through social housing in the short to medium term,and through a complete revision of how the land market operates in the long term.

Its not class war.

Its tax payers vs. tax sink holes. Sadly.

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Social Housing in the North East has mostly been passed out to ALMO's who have become HA's.Most of these houses were paid for decades ago.These ALMO's/HAs have increased rents at RPI+ for a long time.Most of the money goes on massive salaries for employees and benefits packages that win awards for "Best Place to Work".Also being involved in things outside of providing houses.

http://www.b.co.uk/Company/Profile/306424/

Now that we have seen the spare room subsidy cut and rents cut in the budget these sorts of excess will be hard to keep up.It should also me noted the budget also included buried in welfare reform single room rates will only be paid for new tenants under 35 in social housing,the same as for the private sector/LHA.Its 100% certain once this beds in this single person rate will be increased from 35 year old to 45,55,retirement age going forward.

The HAs are now trapped at both ends.Younger/single end means single room rate applies and pushes those people away from Social Housing.The spare room subsidy cut means nobody wants 3 bed houses once their children leave home.(and if the single room rate does shoot up to 45,55+ age group in future social housing for single people on benefits will be off limits).

There's nothing to keep LHA honest.

All LHA show the worse aspects of local councils - over staffed, no one kicking ass to get work done, no accountability, organisation prusing there own, narrow political interest.

There needs to be a way fro LHA to lose their contracts and be allowed to go the wall, pensions and all.

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First they came for me......but they couldn't kick me out because I was a carer.

They came for me again and tried to kick me out again.....but couldn't kick me out because I was a carer for someone who`d died !

In future when they come again I`ll be ready with another excuse ! (I`m getting long term benefits)

I`m just not interested in making myself homeless. Members of the middle class should step up to the plate.

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Its not class war.

Its tax payers vs. tax sink holes. Sadly.

Almost the good old days - when politics was about the tax burden and I'd have no idea what 'hpi burden' could possibly mean.

At least it will be the good old days when the politicians catch up.

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Almost the good old days - when politics was about the tax burden and I'd have no idea what 'hpi burden' could possibly mean.

At least it will be the good old days when the politicians catch up.

Not really. You cannot have something that swallows more and more GDP and never fixes the problems.

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