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juvenal

Keen Bass Fisherman?

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3380828/Brussels-Britain-s-anglers-Happy-New-Year-writes-RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-nicked.html

Not any more you're not!

Even one fish will put you in the dock!

Another EU law just put in force ....

If the facts are as reported, then this is indeed very scandalous.

I do not fish myself, but defend to the death the right of any human to stand on any square-yard of British shoreline and catch whatever he/she will take home and eat - and to do so freely, and without penalty.

If this is true, then we as a society are ten times more fücked than even I thought possible..!

Welcome to 2016...

:(

XYY

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Not exactly under the radar as this has been known for a while now ,they introduced a three fish limit per person for non licensed vessels last year

It`s also a bit on the sensationalist side i does not apply to shore anglers only anglers fishing from unlicensed boats licensed inshore boats (under ten meters ) can still fish for and land bass as per licence entitlements apart from the total ban during the spawning season

I see this as a positive for bass stocks as there was far too many unlicensed boats masquerading as pleasure angling craft but really fishing commercially these are doing far more damage than the large trawlers as they are fishing where most of the fish stocks are unlike the large trawlers which are restricted to a set minimum distance they can trawl from the coast

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It is a lot more nuanced that the Mail Article likes to portray.

That the bass is a stock in serious decline in its EU area is indisputable.

Bass recruitment has collapsed since the mid 2000s-fig 5.3.32.1 cf landings and recruitment.

ICES 2015 report here

The decline is due to a combination of overfishing (largely by French and Spanish trawlers) and warming seas due to climate change. Like many fish species, warming seas are affecting the abundance and distribution of bass as they respond to their thermal preference and changes in their prey. Quota restrictions will not affect changes in local abundance due to the sea warming, unfortunately.

Here are the current restrictions described in full - It is a shame the Mail Article didn't describe them accurately.

The recreational limits are in part to sweeten the pill for the commercial fishermen.

I think that the Mail article is more about using the bass limit for a bit of EU knocking, whatever the merits of that, rather than bass fishing per se, which is a shame as there is an interesting story about bass, as the above ICES report shows.

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If the facts are as reported, then this is indeed very scandalous.

I do not fish myself, but defend to the death the right of any human to stand on any square-yard of British shoreline and catch whatever he/she will take home and eat - and to do so freely, and without penalty.

If this is true, then we as a society are ten times more fücked than even I thought possible..!

Welcome to 2016...

:(

XYY

They'll be banning monkey hanging next...

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It is a lot more nuanced that the Mail Article likes to portray.

The decline is due to a combination of overfishing (largely by French and Spanish trawlers) and warming seas due to climate change. Like many fish species, warming seas are affecting the abundance and distribution of bass as they respond to their thermal preference and changes in their prey.

Have sea temperatures really changed noticeably?

Looks fairly consistent to me. Perhaps overfishing in the south just makes it look like they are migrating north to colder waters?

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Have sea temperatures really changed noticeably?

Looks fairly consistent to me. Perhaps overfishing in the south just makes it look like they are migrating north to colder waters?

I really don't want this to be a why's and wherefores climate change thread1, but the N Sea is about 1C warmer and the NE Atlantic about 0.75C warmer (Sea Surface Temperatures) compared to about 50 years ago. Your overfishing argument in the south doesn't hold, if you think about it.

As an anecdote

Tuna in the Hebrides

1Let's just agree that temperatures are rising :)

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Have sea temperatures really changed noticeably?

Looks fairly consistent to me. Perhaps overfishing in the south just makes it look like they are migrating north to colder waters?

Around 0.5 degrees c since 1980 after cooling from around 1945.

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I really don't want this to be a why's and wherefores climate change thread1, but the N Sea is about 1C warmer and the NE Atlantic about 0.75C warmer (Sea Surface Temperatures) compared to about 50 years ago. Your overfishing argument in the south doesn't hold, if you think about it.

As an anecdote

Tuna in the Hebrides

1Let's just agree that temperatures are rising :)

Looks like fish take has doubled the last decade by commercial trawlers, mainly form continental europe with the lowest release rates. Recruitment has fallen the years the sea temperature was actually falling again, looks and smells like commercial overfishing and nothing to do with climate crap.

"Above-average sea temperatures are expected to be favourable for survival of young bass in estuarine nursery areas, which may explain the increased frequency of strong year classes from the mid-1990s to the early 2000s. The increase in sea temperature may also have been responsible for adult sea bass remaining for a longer period of the year in the near-shore areas of the English Channel and Celtic Sea. More recent years have been characterized by colder winters, which may explain the apparent decline in recruitment. "

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Looks like fish take has doubled the last decade by commercial trawlers, mainly form continental europe with the lowest release rates. Recruitment has fallen the years the sea temperature was actually falling again, looks and smells like commercial overfishing and nothing to do with climate crap.

"Above-average sea temperatures are expected to be favourable for survival of young bass in estuarine nursery areas, which may explain the increased frequency of strong year classes from the mid-1990s to the early 2000s. The increase in sea temperature may also have been responsible for adult sea bass remaining for a longer period of the year in the near-shore areas of the English Channel and Celtic Sea. More recent years have been characterized by colder winters, which may explain the apparent decline in recruitment. "

The text in quotes is accurate. Bass will move northwards as SSTs rise, cold winters are disadvantageous to recruitment at its northern distribution. The Northeast of the UK is expected to see increased bass abundance heading towards 2100 if SSTs continue to rise; so you can take that as a good climate change story if you are a bass fishermen in the UK's Northeast, although you won't be catching many cod.

Fish take from commercial trawling (top down effects) is a driver of abundance, but climate (bottom up effects) is a driver too. While bass is considered a eurytherm (broad thermal tolerance) it still has a range and the climate of course will also affect its prey, some of which may be stenothermic (narrow thermal tolerance). As the seas warm bass are predicted to move northwards putting further pressure upon the southern distribution of the stock, which also needs to be considered when setting quotas.

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1Let's just agree that temperatures are rising :)

Happy not to dwell on that topic, I'm just surprised such a small change would make a noticeable difference, you'd think normal year on year variations would be as much (or more) on their own.

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Fish may migrate differently depending on temperature. If we have a warmer Gulf Stream they may not go so far South.

Anyway, back to the subject. A bloke with a rod as a hobby should not be obliged to follow the same rules as commercial fishing vessels.

In the same way I should not need planning permission to move my compost bin. :blink:

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Happy not to dwell on that topic, I'm just surprised such a small change would make a noticeable difference, you'd think normal year on year variations would be as much (or more) on their own.

The baseline temperature has increased and is predicted to continue to do so (at varying intensity depending upon various RCPs).

Annual year to year variations are superimposed upon this baseline. Simplisticly, a given cold month or year now is not as cold as it would have been, and a warm month or year is warmer.

As an example, the thermal preference for adult cod is 2-8C, although they can be found in colder and warmer waters. If the water warms you can see how their abundance and range will shift, they will become less abundant at the warmer end of their distribution and more abundant at the colder end of their distribution. Of course, temperature does not just affect the cod, it also affects the whole interconnected food chain, both the prey and the predators of cod (and their prey and predators) and they will also also respond to changes in temperature (this can include abundance, distribution and time of occurrence or seasonality) to also influence cod abundance throughout its range.

That reads effing patronising, but it's not meant to be :)

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On a cold day I can be found in the "spoons" with a hot meal and a pint.

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The baseline temperature has increased and is predicted to continue to do so (at varying intensity depending upon various RCPs).

Annual year to year variations are superimposed upon this baseline. Simplisticly, a given cold month or year now is not as cold as it would have been, and a warm month or year is warmer.

As an example, the thermal preference for adult cod is 2-8C, although they can be found in colder and warmer waters. If the water warms you can see how their abundance and range will shift, they will become less abundant at the warmer end of their distribution and more abundant at the colder end of their distribution. Of course, temperature does not just affect the cod, it also affects the whole interconnected food chain, both the prey and the predators of cod (and their prey and predators) and they will also also respond to changes in temperature (this can include abundance, distribution and time of occurrence or seasonality) to also influence cod abundance throughout its range.

You'd have thought most sea fish like bass and cod would be quite good at adaption to a changing factor like temperature. Given that they spawn so many millions of young and have a short life cycle. Surely the natural variation amongst so many offspring would lead to a good ability to adapt to even a fast-ish changing environment.

Of course I know absolutely nothing about the ways of fish and am only speculating on scant knowledge.

Edit to improve gramma

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Whilst my default view is to resist any new regulation of anything, banning worm drowning would get my support.

Anglers are typically fag smoking dole scroungers. They leave mess,hooks bits of nylon line and other rubbish wherever they go. Ban it along with fox hunting and pheasant shooting.

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Whilst my default view is to resist any new regulation of anything, banning worm drowning would get my support.

Anglers are typically fag smoking dole scroungers. They leave mess,hooks bits of nylon line and other rubbish wherever they go. Ban it along with fox hunting and pheasant shooting.

That's not a reasonable attitude, and you know it. :blink: You should write for the DM.

I'll bet the cod you eat never died. :(:D

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Whilst my default view is to resist any new regulation of anything, banning worm drowning would get my support.

Anglers are typically fag smoking dole scroungers. They leave mess,hooks bits of nylon line and other rubbish wherever they go. Ban it along with fox hunting and pheasant shooting.

Unfortunately, the sea looks huge and once something is underneath the surface it looks as if it's gone. Pretty much everyone litters the sea, which is a great shame, and everything we wash down the sink ends up their too. I always leave a beach with a bag full of rubbish from plastic bottles to shotgun wads, cigarette lighters and bits of discarded fishing line. In fact anything I can squash into a daypack.

Banning coarse angling, a pursuit where you catch a fish and tow it around a lake just to release it, for it to then go through the whole rigmarole again another day, would justify a ban on the same basis as foxhunting was banned in my opinion; perhaps more so due to the repeat trauma. But a different class of people is perceived to take part. (I wouldn't have banned foxhunting) Bloodsports and climate change, what a thread.

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I can see that pelagic species can and will migrate with temperature variation, but shallow water/ shoreline species presumably do not have the same flexibility.

It seems that many species are called 'bass', so are we talking about a shallow-water species here?

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Whilst my default view is to resist any new regulation of anything, banning worm drowning would get my support.

Anglers are typically fag smoking dole scroungers. They leave mess,hooks bits of nylon line and other rubbish wherever they go. Ban it along with fox hunting and pheasant shooting.

A splendid bit of stereotyping. I only discovered my wife was having an affair with an angler because he kept leaving mealworm and maggots in my bed.

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I can see that pelagic species can and will migrate with temperature variation, but shallow water/ shoreline species presumably do not have the same flexibility.

It seems that many species are called 'bass', so are we talking about a shallow-water species here?

The regulations refer to Dicentrachus labrax commonly known as ......

Of them all, my favourite is: Loup de mer

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