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Diversification In Period/historical Dramas

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I don't watch much telly nowadays, but I have noticed that at every opportunity there seems to be people from various ethnic backgrounds cast in historical dramas which I would think would not be historically accurate.

Surely this is a step to far and just takes history into the realms of a left wing utopian revionist fantasy.

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I don't watch much telly nowadays, but I have noticed that at every opportunity there seems to be people from various ethnic backgrounds cast in historical dramas which I would think would not be historically accurate.

Surely this is a step to far and just takes history into the realms of a left wing utopian revionist fantasy.

BBC?

They are re-making Roots.

Martin Freeman has the Chicken George part.

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Haha!

Facts have nothing to do with anything. Didn't anybody tell you? :P

Did you know (if you follow the BBC) that Russia invented space travel and have won the space race.

You need re-educating, seriously.

I don't know what's more worrying... the fact that you don't know what's going on, or that fact that you do. :ph34r:

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Funnily enough, I've just given up attempting to watch the first episode of Beowulf on the ITV player because they had a female (Indian subcontinent?) blacksmith and black Africans in the crowd scenes. Beggars belief.

Edit to say: I believe remains of black Africans have been found in UK, dating back to mediaeval times in a monastery site in Ipswich... Probably the exception rather than the rule.

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Haha!

Facts have nothing to do with anything. Didn't anybody tell you? :P

I don't know what's more worrying... the fact that you don't know what's going on, or that fact that you do. :ph34r:

For heavens sake, don't let the government know. :P

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Haha!

Facts have nothing to do with anything. Didn't anybody tell you? :P

I don't know what's more worrying... the fact that you don't know what's going on, or that fact that you do. :ph34r:

For heavens sake, don't let the government know. :P

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Funnily enough, I've just given up attempting to watch the first episode of Beowulf on the ITV player because they had a female (Indian subcontinent?) blacksmith and black Africans in the crowd scenes. Beggars belief.

Edit to say: I believe remains of black Africans have been found in UK, dating back to mediaeval times in a monastery site in Ipswich... Probably the exception rather than the rule.

Well, any port town has probably had a number og non-whites trun up over the last few thousand year.

Even just using sail, you could sail out of Whitby and be in north Africa in a couple of weeks.

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I can usually tell if a 'historical' drama is going to be a serious attempt to portray the times.

The first pointer is when the cast are just too clean, I mean back in the day only the rich managed one bath a week. So a peasant looking like he's just come from a 5 star hotel with a perfectly manicured beard (2015 style) and designer 'shabby chic' clothes is not going to convince me.

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Aren't these the equivalent of "blacking up" where white actors play black parts?

In the historical dramas you have crowds that would have been 100% white so any ethnic actors are playing white parts.

Can I sue?

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Well, any port town has probably had a number og non-whites trun up over the last few thousand year.

Even just using sail, you could sail out of Whitby and be in north Africa in a couple of weeks.

A lot of Africans, mainly men, settled in the port towns and cities in the 18th and 19th centuries. Especially after a High Court ruling in the 1830s that a foreign national enslaved abroad became a free man when he stepped ashore in England. If you look at the statues depicting the sailors in Nelsons navy around the base of Nelsons column one is clearly an African.

I once read, I can't vouch for the truth of it, that the geneticists reckon that 10% of apparently white Englishmen have African ancestors.

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I have noticed this, but view it as a general 'seeing-of-things-through-modern-eyes' rather than any hardcore leftie agenda.

They also make plenty of errors with dialogue - using phrases in historical dramas that would not have been coined in that period. "Downton Abbey" is a major repeat-offender in this area.

And of course there are often a few satellite-dishes on view in recently-made 70s dramas - "Life On Mars" for example. Even an otherwise authentic show like "When The Boat Comes In" showed some 60s high-rise flats by accident in one episode.

And I'm sure that at least one person in the real-life "Peaky Blinders" would have had a genuine "Brummy" accent - unlike the TV show...! ;)

As the old-saying goes: Don't put down to malice that which can equally be ascribed to stupidity...

XYY

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I have noticed this, but view it as a general 'seeing-of-things-through-modern-eyes' rather than any hardcore leftie agenda.

They also make plenty of errors with dialogue - using phrases in historical dramas that would not have been coined in that period. "Downton Abbey" is a major repeat-offender in this area.

And of course there are often a few satellite-dishes on view in recently-made 70s dramas - "Life On Mars" for example. Even an otherwise authentic show like "When The Boat Comes In" showed some 60s high-rise flats by accident in one episode.

And I'm sure that at least one person in the real-life "Peaky Blinders" would have had a genuine "Brummy" accent - unlike the TV show...! ;)

As the old-saying goes: Don't put down to malice that which can equally be ascribed to stupidity...

XYY

I do believe it is a deliberate policy to be inclusive and assuage the guilty feelings of the left wing media.

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I do believe it is a deliberate policy to be inclusive and assuage the guilty feelings of the left wing media.

The 2012 Olympic opening ceremony was particularly noteworthy for putting black people in where there wouldn't have been any if we were being historically accurate.

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They also make plenty of errors with dialogue - using phrases in historical dramas that would not have been coined in that period. "Downton Abbey" is a major repeat-offender in this area.

XYY

Yes, it's one of the reasons I don't watch most of these shows. Careless scripts that have got past writer/ editor/ producer/ actor/ cast without anybody pointing out that Ringo Starr made up that phrase in 1963 or Basil Brush or something like that!

Here's a good one i've cut & pasted from the many on the internet concerning Downton Clangers:

The servants’ use of the word boyfriend has been identified as rather inappropriate by some language-lovers. Apparently, the use of the word ‘boyfriend’ did not appear until 1933, in The Times as the name of a racehorse. It did not appear again until 1955. Highly unlikely servants would have been banding it around, even in a posh joint like Downton.

In the end though, it's about winning the ratings war, so as long as there are some 'hot' leading actors, plus a couple of character actors to get an award, add an old house somewhere within a century or two of required date, you've got a winner with the British ( & American) audience.

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I do believe it is a deliberate policy to be inclusive and assuage the guilty feelings of the left wing media.

You may be right reffy - but since us off-topic guardians of all that is sacred have spotted it, it's effects are now rendered powerless..!

;)

Interestingly enough, I live in one of the most "whitest" parts of England, and didn't even have a conversation with a real live actual black person until I was 22.

TV shows and adverts certainly show more minorities than is my real-life experience, yet a photo from 1960s Hartlepool featuring a group of people about to depart on a bus-trip to Blackpool that recently popped-up on a Facebook page had an afro-caribbean couple in it.

I showed that photo to my dad, as he was from that part of town, and he recognised many people on the picture. When I mentioned the black couple, he said he didn't know them, but did remember a few others living on the estate. He said no-one really give a shit about their colour, but did admit that whatever their names were - let's say the bloke was called Billy - then they would invariably become known as "Black Billy"...!

Any modern TV show or film would struggle to convey these historical nuances, simply because the writers probably weren't there at the time.

I'm sure William Wallace's actual Jock-land was a lot different to Mel Gibson's portrayal of it...

;)

XYY

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I once read, I can't vouch for the truth of it, that the geneticists reckon that 10% of apparently white Englishmen have African ancestors.

That sounds phenomenally low considering the six degrees of separation theory.

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There was a time when TV writers treated their audience with respect. Compare the brilliance of the original Upstairs Downstairs to the dreary dumbed-down claptrap of the remake.

Most of today's TV and film is a vehicle for historical revisionism and social justice. As such it's so utterly boring and predictable it's just not worth watching anymore.

As for theatre, do people really expect material of any value to emerge from government controlled programmes? The state is death to the arts.

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Guest eight

I showed that photo to my dad, as he was from that part of town, and he recognised many people on the picture. When I mentioned the black couple, he said he didn't know them, but did remember a few others living on the estate. He said no-one really give a shit about their colour, but did admit that whatever their names were - let's say the bloke was called Billy - then they would invariably become known as "Black Billy"...!

I've mentioned before on here Arthur "Darkie" Wharton, a Ghanaian who played goalie for Darlington as long ago as 1885. There have been moves afoot recently to turn him into the footballing equivalent of Malcolm X, but I suspect he just liked playing football. And they let him! Even if they did refer to him as "Darkie". Is this behaviour racist, or not?

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I've mentioned before on here Arthur "Darkie" Wharton, a Ghanaian who played goalie for Darlington as long ago as 1885. There have been moves afoot recently to turn him into the footballing equivalent of Malcolm X, but I suspect he just liked playing football. And they let him! Even if they did refer to him as "Darkie". Is this behaviour racist, or not?

Darkie? He got off lightly. The local black guy on our estate was called chalky :)

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I've mentioned before on here Arthur "Darkie" Wharton, a Ghanaian who played goalie for Darlington as long ago as 1885. There have been moves afoot recently to turn him into the footballing equivalent of Malcolm X, but I suspect he just liked playing football. And they let him! Even if they did refer to him as "Darkie". Is this behaviour racist, or not?

I suspect you are right - your (still in the football-league - unlike Darlo!) local rivals Hartlepool United had an Egyptian player around the time of the Great War called Tewfik Abdallah and modern accounts have tried to promote him to sainthood - when in reality he was probably just delighted to get paid for kicking a ball around rather than working 6 days a week in some coal-mine or shipyard for subsistence wages...

It's all Jimmy Hill's fault...

;)

XYY

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I watched one of those programs about the 70s where most of the young people were horrified with the attitudes to race.

If I remember correctly Kenny Lynch was on and he didn't bat an eyelid,he could see the humour in most of the comedy.

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