rxe Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I presume it is a successful company Yes, very. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I reckon if you work with your reviewer on a day to day basis, then the force is with you. If it's somebody you last spoke to six months ago, it's a bit random. Also if it's the person that hired you, good. Another random replacement manager, not so good. If it isn't someone who you work with on a day-to-day basis then there's nothing there to review (if that's how often you have anything to do with your manager then he's probably not serving any useful purpose, and certainly isn't in a position to review anything). If it is then a review shouldn't be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Ask for a pay rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Good avice, if you hear anything even slighty negative. Thank you MrPin. Especially anything slightly negative although I meant for the entire review including any good bits Having a record of the good bits could come in useful sometime in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Thank you MrPin. Especially anything slightly negative although I meant for the entire review including any good bits Having a record of the good bits could come in useful sometime in the future. Indeed. Somebody at my previous company got good performance reviews year after year and then got sacked for longstanding "problems" that had never been mentioned in the reviews. And sued for unfair dismissal, using the performance reviews as evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Indeed. Somebody at my previous company got good performance reviews year after year and then got sacked for longstanding "problems" that had never been mentioned in the reviews. And sued for unfair dismissal, using the performance reviews as evidence. Good one if he/she got anything for it! In those situations I just want paying off, so I don't sue, or use a tribunal. It 's called a "compromise agreement". I think it a bribe, and I can be bribed. Actually I think I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Indeed. Somebody at my previous company got good performance reviews year after year and then got sacked for longstanding "problems" that had never been mentioned in the reviews. And sued for unfair dismissal, using the performance reviews as evidence. Amazing. Not sure how you can justify you've had issues for years and we just haven't mentioned it before, if only there was an appropriate time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I work in a company where performance reviews are taken very seriously - lots of thought and consideration about the outcomes, and pretty much zero chance for some rogue manager with a vendetta to distort the results for personal reasons. I've been (and still am) on both sides of this process. It is used to define bonuses, promotion and at the other end, who really needs to go and do something else. Regardless of the result, there are indeed two groups - people who engage with it and try and learn, and people who just tolerate it and don't listen. You can get away with the latter when you are doing really well, but in any other situation you need to listen and understand. For whatever reason, a large group of people in the company is coming to the conclusion that you are not doing well - if you want to stay there, listen to the feedback. People who consistently do badly fall into two groups. There are people who are quite frankly in the wrong job. They are good people, but we are making them do things that they are not good at. They'd be much better off doing something else. And then there are people who just can't cut it. They will produce excuse after excuse (its always someone else's fault) but when you are looking at a complete file over many years, they've either been incredibly unlucky, or they are just not very good. Exactly. Where the hell do the rest of you work? Sounds absolutely brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Exactly. Where the hell do the rest of you work? Sounds absolutely brutal. Mine's very nice actually. The hatchet / hit-list company was my previous one. Basically the new chief exec didn't like the senior team he'd inherited and got rid of one of them one a year for about five years, mostly with pay-offs to stop them suing but not that one for some reason. I was ok as there is a real shortage of my skillset, but I left anyway as I didn't like losing my friends in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RentingForever Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 People who consistently do badly fall into two groups. There are people who are quite frankly in the wrong job. They are good people, but we are making them do things that they are not good at. They'd be much better off doing something else. And then there are people who just can't cut it. They will produce excuse after excuse (its always someone else's fault) but when you are looking at a complete file over many years, they've either been incredibly unlucky, or they are just not very good. And the third group - people who are consistently set unobtainable targets, but management prefer to blame their performance against that target rather than face up to the reality that the target is bullsh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The reality is it's often not about whether an employee is good or bad at the job given to the employee. The level of criticism is often more likely to be related to something like a pay structure or a restructuring (and the legal/payoff etc implications) rather than an individual's actual performance. It might also be something like a poor manager wanting to deter the competition. Etc etc. An example of the latter is Gordon Brown's (apparent) behaviour towards people below him in the ranking - reported to be in order to cull the competition. Written Job Descriptions are also often designed to ensure plenty of openings/opportunities for criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Exactly. Where the hell do the rest of you work? Sounds absolutely brutal. It's not brutal, it's just inept. I was 'Public Sector', University. The academic position I left recently has just been re-advertised and I've been asked by senior management if I'd apply No way would I go back to the middle management I left, and the top won't replace them as it would admit too many failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Indeed. Somebody at my previous company got good performance reviews year after year and then got sacked for longstanding "problems" that had never been mentioned in the reviews. And sued for unfair dismissal, using the performance reviews as evidence. Franz Kafka's Trial again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 And the third group - people who are consistently set unobtainable targets, but management prefer to blame their performance against that target rather than face up to the reality that the target is bullsh*t. The problem is that unobtainable unrealistic targets will work to see people don't even try to reach it......what is the point of an unachievable target.....no point......targets need to be set just outside grasp level, then with a bit of vision, determination and effort said target can be not only be reached but exceeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Two things to add about performance review: If you want a pay rise your job is to make your boss/line-manager happy. And they will be happy by having an easy life. So find out what is required of them in the performance review process. There is almost certainly a nice fat performance review process that they have to follow. So note down every aspect, and bring notes explaining how you meet these aspects. Everything from outputs achieved, challenges, performance against targets set in previous meeting, all the way to training undertaken and social integration into the office. They really don't want to make any effort at all with this nuisance-performance-review thing, so make it so that they can simply cut and paste your words into their proforma that they have to supply up the chain. By doing this you'll be nice and average and they'll give you a pay rise if one is available. Consider it as paid work - you might be able to wangle an extra 0.25%, so on average wages that hour of pain writing this nonsense gives you an extra £30 - pathetic return really but okay for an hour's work. Performance reviews don't really get you anything. They won't get you a pay rise over a thin marginal amount, and they won't get you a promotion. They can be fun to try to get training - when I used to work in large companies I used to try to get fun training. I remember being refused off-road driving training and flying lessons (they were sort of relevant - really!), but they did agree to lots of off-site professional development which was very useful when I left and started competing against them. When it comes to professional career development I subscribe to the 2-5-10 rule - in your first 'professional' job (out of school/university) stay a maximum of 2 years. If they don't promote you move. Not as a threat, really get a new job - otherwise you'll stagnate. Similarly for the next job stay a maximum of 5 years - if you've not made serious progression in the job, move. You should be having serious responsibilities by then (project lead, etc) - if not, you'll become the general dogsbody. For the next job stay a maximum of 10 years. Again, if you've not had good promotion during this time (team leader, etc), then move. By the time you reach 40 you're on your own and you have to work out the rest of your career for yourself. This 2-5-10 rule doesn't apply to all job types, but it is useful in some professional job types, and particularly if you're a bit timid re. asking for promotion - if you are, then you need this sort of framework to guide your career. Oh, and don't blame me if you change jobs after 5 years and hate your new job. That is your fault for being rubbish, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 The problem is that unobtainable unrealistic targets will work to see people don't even try to reach it......what is the point of an unachievable target.....no point......targets need to be set just outside grasp level, then with a bit of vision, determination and effort said target can be not only be reached but exceeded. I always set unobtainable targets, except they are not. With a little help, they do very well. Anyway it was me that would get an earful from the Project Director, if it didn't work, so I made sure they got it right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I always set unobtainable targets, except they are not. With a little help, they do very well. Anyway it was me that would get an earful from the Project Director, if it didn't work, so I made sure they got it right! If they are not, then they are obtainable........to achieve anything though, the tools have to be given to create it.......can't make a silk purse from a pigs ear......that is where training is so valuable......you get out of it the investment you put into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 If they are not, then they are obtainable........to achieve anything though, the tools have to be given to create it.......can't make a silk purse from a pigs ear......that is where training is so valuable......you get out of it the investment you put into it. There's......somebody.....on.....another....forum.....that......punctuates......like.......you......winkie......do....you......have.......a.........brother......who....lives......on.......Portland........(Dorset)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 If they are not, then they are obtainable........to achieve anything though, the tools have to be given to create it.......can't make a silk purse from a pigs ear......that is where training is so valuable......you get out of it the investment you put into it. I quite like training people up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 There's......somebody.....on.....another....forum.....that......punctuates......like.......you......winkie......do....you......have.......a.........brother......who....lives......on.......Portland........(Dorset)? Maybe it's a sticky dot key? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Maybe it's a sticky dot key? I always think of short-wave radio (ask your dad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I always think of short-wave radio (ask your dad). My dad won't know the difference. It is I who has the radio certificate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 There's......somebody.....on.....another....forum.....that......punctuates......like.......you......winkie......do....you......have.......a.........brother......who....lives......on.......Portland........(Dorset)? Won't be changing now.....I think it is called umm thinking time....the in thinking word noticed on bbc is 'so'.....so seems to start so many sentences......Portland must give it a try one day.....been to the Isle of White, don't have a brother living there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I quite like training people up! Yes, they always put the new ones that required training with me for some reason.....two jobs for the price of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Won't be changing now.....I think it is called umm thinking time....the in thinking word noticed on bbc is 'so'.....so seems to start so many sentences......Portland must give it a try one day.....been to the Isle of White, don't have a brother living there. There's a decent walk around the isle, it's very bleak with ex-military buildings, quarries and a big prison. At the far end there are some very strong currents going on and a profusion of sheds masquerading as beach huts. Very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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