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fru-gal

Are Shares Now A Better Bet Than Buy-To-Let? How Osborne's Latest Attack On Landlords Has Made Property Far Less Lucrative

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The FTSE is around what it was 10 years ago, so if you didn't invest in good dividend inflation busting shares your money has virtually stood still at best , also the future outlook isn't really rosy Wars Oil Debt etc not forgetting the CBs who are rigging the market on a massive scale .you would be very brave to invest in this market;

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That is the most confusing pseudo financial piece I've ever read!

It translates as "here are a lot of really confusing and probably wrong numbers - but don't worry house prices will go to the moon"

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The FTSE is around what it was 10 years ago, so if you didn't invest in good dividend inflation busting shares your money has virtually stood still at best , also the future outlook isn't really rosy Wars Oil Debt etc not forgetting the CBs who are rigging the market on a massive scale .you would be very brave to invest in this market;

There's no such thing as safety or guarantees in life or investing - just living takes bravery!

Which is the more "honest" and realistic market over 10 years? FTSE - largely flat but chucking out divis. Or housing - to the moon? Both the FTSE and housing values are driven by economic health and growth so in the long run they should converge.

Therefore, I'll stick with shares.

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Weighing it up: Many will be deterred from putting their pensions into buy-to-let properties following the Chancellor's latest assault on landlords, so how does it now compare to buying shares?

2EF8064F00000578-3341827-image-a-38_1449

Edited by rollover

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Both uninvestable for now. Could change in a month. One never knows.

If your investing aim is (over the long term, bounciness accepted) inflation related income - then what other options are there? Property and equities *should* both be the answer (personally I wouldn't touch BTL for the sheer hassle factor alone).

Or, have we reached the apocalyptic state where investing for income is no longer viable?

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Weighing it up: Many will be deterred from putting their pensions into buy-to-let properties following the Chancellor's latest assault on landlords, so how does it now compare to buying shares?

Now do the same sum and replace buy to let with an owner occupied home and stocks/shares/pension.

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If your investing aim is (over the long term, bounciness accepted) inflation related income - then what other options are there? Property and equities *should* both be the answer (personally I wouldn't touch BTL for the sheer hassle factor alone).

Or, have we reached the apocalyptic state where investing for income is no longer viable?

This is not advice.

Cash is ALWAYS an option.

Govt Bonds remain highly attractive, espec USTs med term.

Other assets which have collapsed, not soared.

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Weighing it up: Many will be deterred from putting their pensions into buy-to-let properties following the Chancellor's latest assault on landlords, so how does it now compare to buying shares?

2EF8064F00000578-3341827-image-a-38_1449

Let's suppose (for the sake of argument) that's a reasonable projection.

Trouble is, it's not comparing like with like. One side is leveraged, the other isn't. Add the value and costs of the mortgage, and the stockmarket total return adds an extra digit.

Of course, so does the risk.

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Let's suppose (for the sake of argument) that's a reasonable projection.

Trouble is, it's not comparing like with like. One side is leveraged, the other isn't. Add the value and costs of the mortgage, and the stockmarket total return adds an extra digit.

Of course, so does the risk.

There needs to be another graphic showing the maximum loss if it all goes to pear shaped:

Shares £62k

BTL £212k (assuming 75% LTV)

Edited by Exiled Canadian

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This is not advice.

Cash is ALWAYS an option.

Govt Bonds remain highly attractive, espec USTs med term.

Other assets which have collapsed, not soared.

If cash is the answer then we have indeed reached the apocalyptic state I referred to above.

I've never bothered to suss bond investing (probably an oversight I need to remedy) - as a consumer grade investor, you always seem to get better returns just sticking in a retail fixed term account. OK, you forgo any capital growth if interest rates fall - but I can't see that happening from here.

While shares haven't collapsed - they certainly haven't soared either.

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Let's suppose (for the sake of argument) that's a reasonable projection.

Trouble is, it's not comparing like with like. One side is leveraged, the other isn't. Add the value and costs of the mortgage, and the stockmarket total return adds an extra digit.

Of course, so does the risk.

Pretty naive model.

Holding a house for 25 years with no maintenance.

I would expect hem to have to spend about 75K-100k over a 25 year period.

A rental needs a lot more expensive, at a higher cost, than an OOO.

No voids either.

Realistically they need to knock at least 10% off that 25 year income.

Edited by spyguy

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How accessible is the stockmarket to the masses though? Property and savings are much easier to access. Gidiot should have let the FLS expire at the end of Jan - savings rates would have then climbed at the same time BTL was looking less attractive.

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How accessible is the stockmarket to the masses though? Property and savings are much easier to access. Gidiot should have let the FLS expire at the end of Jan - savings rates would have then climbed at the same time BTL was looking less attractive.

Takes a few days to set up a S&S ISA account doesn't it? The only bit slowing it down as proving your identity.

Don't think you can buy a BTL in a few days... and if you can't prove your identity for an S&S ISA you are certainly going to struggle with the paperwork required to get a mortgage and buy a house!

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How accessible is the stockmarket to the masses though? Property and savings are much easier to access. Gidiot should have let the FLS expire at the end of Jan - savings rates would have then climbed at the same time BTL was looking less attractive.

They don't want your savings, they want your debt.....cash is anything you can have access to within 10 days.

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They don't want your savings, they want your debt.....cash is anything you can have access to within 10 days.

Well, yes.

BTL is not about saving. Its about leveraging up to stupid + 10.

Not that people buying BTLs seem to understand that, or the banks lending them money.

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Muppets can always gear up on equities too. I think that's even less paperwork intensive than getting a mortgage (but having done neither, I don't actually know!)

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Takes a few days to set up a S&S ISA account doesn't it? The only bit slowing it down as proving your identity.

Don't think you can buy a BTL in a few days... and if you can't prove your identity for an S&S ISA you are certainly going to struggle with the paperwork required to get a mortgage and buy a house!

Nearly all older folk have experience of buying a house. Far less have experience of the stockmarket.

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If cash is the answer then we have indeed reached the apocalyptic state I referred to above.

I've never bothered to suss bond investing (probably an oversight I need to remedy) - as a consumer grade investor, you always seem to get better returns just sticking in a retail fixed term account. OK, you forgo any capital growth if interest rates fall - but I can't see that happening from here.

While shares haven't collapsed - they certainly haven't soared either.

Cash is a place to hold money while opportunities arise.

Rates ARE falling, have been for 40 years and until the trend changes the trend remains!

ZIRP. However, of S&P 500 10 are up this year and 490 down. Shares are in a state of collapse.

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Cash is a place to hold money while opportunities arise.

Rates ARE falling, have been for 40 years and until the trend changes the trend remains!

ZIRP. However, of S&P 500 10 are up this year and 490 down. Shares are in a state of collapse.

My portfolio is down 4.11% year-to-date. So about evens including divis. I don't call that a collapse! I've lost more in a hour in the past.

If you've got buckets of wonga then holding cash in waiting is a jolly good idea. But if you live off your investments then it's a choice between investing for income or spending capital. In which case eating into your stash of cash is unappealing. I'm not saying it'll always be unnecessary - but I'm not sure we've reached the zero income point just now.

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My portfolio is down 4.11% year-to-date. So about evens including divis. I don't call that a collapse! I've lost more in a hour in the past.

I don't either and I didn't. <_<

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