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juvenal

Have Tories Spotted A Change In Public Sentiment On Btl?

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Each year 400,000 plus 18 year olds go to university

Each year something like the same number of parents* (usually with mortgages) get their first taste of just how much rent their offspring are paying; the crap accomodation they are getting, and what huge sums are being made by their landlords.

Three year degree courses; a million plus kids going home each holiday broke and moaning about loans, debts and rents...

Lost deposits; inventory argumentst; condensation; damp and mould..

How many parents have visited horrible three bed student semi's, housing 6 or 8 kids at 80/90 pounds a week each?

No lounge; the front room another bedroom and every radiator draped with drying clothing. And don't look at the jungle deemed the 'garden' ...

Is the Landlord now suddenly being recognised for the parasite he/she actually is, by astute politicians thinking of their mortgage-paying voter base?

I haven't met an undergradate's parent who wasn't bitter about rents, and I taught their kids for ten years...

Drink drivers were once almost tolerated or largely ignored.

A few years later they are abhorred, hunted for, and when caught,rightly given no mercy.

Public attitudes change,

As Bob said, 'you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows..'

*I'm allowing for 2 parents per student, and that some students also live at home. Very rough figures, I know.

Edited by juvenal

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I think it has belatedly dawned on them that there is a whole huge swathe of 20s to 40-pluses who are massively

hacked off with paying ever inflating rents to LLs who raise them because they can; who can't save anything like enough for a deposit because of said rents, and who can't understand how the system has been skewed so heavily in favour of LLs. And equally there is an even bigger swathe of these people's parents, who worry about how on earth their kids are ever going to be able to afford even a modest family home.

All of which = a hefty lot of votes.

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Q. How many students live at home with their parents? How many live in student halls?

A. Approximately 1 in 5 full-time students lives at home during term-time, and about the same proportion live in institution maintained property.

Term-time accommodation of full-time and sandwich students
Term-time accommodation * 2012/13 2013/14
Institution maintained property 309765 325090
Private-sector halls 102255 108155
Parental/guardian home 325770 322045
Own residence 258075 255570
Other rented accommodation 503675 516220
Other 77280 59690
Not in attendance at the institution 20795 24025
Not known 84535 85230
Total full-time and sandwich 1682145 1696030

https://www.hesa.ac.uk/stats

Edited by SarahBell

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I think it has belatedly dawned on them that there is a whole huge swathe of 20s to 40-pluses who are massively

hacked off with paying ever inflating rents to LLs who raise them because they can; who can't save anything like enough for a deposit because of said rents, and who can't understand how the system has been skewed so heavily in favour of LLs. And equally there is an even bigger swathe of these people's parents, who worry about how on earth their kids are ever going to be able to afford even a modest family home.

All of which = a hefty lot of votes.

I think it has belatedly dawned on them that all the hardworking 20-40 somethings that might actually contribute something to the country, aren't having kids because the costs are too prohibitive.

the only people reproducing en masse are the dross., which is a suicide note for the country, unless you can conscript them all and send them to war.

Problem is, most of them either can't be bothered, or are of a belief system which is hostile to the country anyway...so when the conscript call comes, the government will be bluntly told to **** off.

fascist tactics won't work with these people, the government will end up with open warfare on the streets.

I think the government has a bit of a problem.

You should have looked after your own first...and you failed.

Edited by oracle

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I think it has belatedly dawned on them that there is a whole huge swathe of 20s to 40-pluses who are massively

hacked off with paying ever inflating rents to LLs who raise them because they can; who can't save anything like enough for a deposit because of said rents, and who can't understand how the system has been skewed so heavily in favour of LLs. And equally there is an even bigger swathe of these people's parents, who worry about how on earth their kids are ever going to be able to afford even a modest family home.

All of which = a hefty lot of votes.

That and the demographic that made up home owning Essex / Mondeo Man in the past is in danger of not being home owners and hence less likely to vote Tory.

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Well one thing is certain anyone who is not a homeowner will not be voting conservative unless there is a big improvement in housing options come the election.

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I think it has belatedly dawned on them that all the hardworking 20-40 somethings that might actually contribute something to the country, aren't having kids because the costs are too prohibitive.

the only people reproducing en masse are the dross., which is a suicide note for the country, unless you can conscript them all and send them to war.

Problem is, most of them either can't be bothered, or are of a belief system which is hostile to the country anyway...so when the conscript call comes, the government will be bluntly told to **** off.

fascist tactics won't work with these people, the government will end up with open warfare on the streets.

I think the government has a bit of a problem.

You should have looked after your own first...and you failed.

I'm afraid to say I have a belief system that is hostile to the country as well

You could say decades of HPI and rigged game monopoly capitalism have radicalised me.

If anyone should go and fight, send in the rentiers and hereditary land owners. They are the ones with anything to loose

My 'price' for supporting this country is an LVT and massive land reform, and turfing the hereditary bums off their stolen land and out of power for good.

People have recently said to me "wow you have really turned to the left now" No I haven't. I'm still a capitalist, which isn't the shit perversion we are currently presented with.

Edited by RentierParadisio

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Well one thing is certain anyone who is not a homeowner will not be voting conservative unless there is a big improvement in housing options come the election.

Ah, the Tories have already thought of this and they are already removing the right of renters to vote;

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-tories-are-removing-twice-as-many-people-from-the-electoral-register-in-britains-poorest-areas-a6701446.html

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I think it has always been thus for students - bad, cramped housing at high rents.

The realisation of how f*cked things are comes at graduation. Three years of slumming it finally paying off with a degree and (if you're lucky) a good job. The graduation pep talks about how the world is your oyster. Time finally to start making a success of yourself.

And then reality hits and you're stuck in the same kind of conditions with the same disposable income. And this drags on for 10+ years.

There is no ladder any more.

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I'm afraid to say I have a belief system that is hostile to the country as well

You could say decades of HPI and rigged game monopoly capitalism have radicalised me.

If anyone should go and fight, send in the rentiers and hereditary land owners. They are the ones with anything to loose

My 'price' for supporting this country is an LVT and massive land reform, and turfing the hereditary bums off their stolen land and out of power for good.

People have recently said to me "wow you have really turned to the left now" No I haven't. I'm still a capitalist, which isn't the shit perversion we are currently presented with.

Pretty much sums up my own feelings tbh, much more eloquently than I could manage.

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I'm afraid to say I have a belief system that is hostile to the country as well

You could say decades of HPI and rigged game monopoly capitalism have radicalised me.

If anyone should go and fight, send in the rentiers and hereditary land owners. They are the ones with anything to loose

Im now of the same feeling.

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Hehe the negativity on HPC in past few days, on the cusp of serious change (possibly HPC itself) is quite amusing.

At times I suffer a bit from it too, but there are reasons for hope and optimism.

Don't get so absorbed by nonsense such as £1m IHT threshold allowance on main home, and 40% London newbuild HTB. Both measures are easy give aways that don't cost Gov much, and won't prevent HPC. Simply projection whilst things get into position.

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Hehe the negativity on HPC in past few days, on the cusp of serious change (possibly HPC itself) is quite amusing.

At times I suffer a bit from it too, but there are reasons for hope and optimism.

Don't get so absorbed by nonsense such as £1m IHT threshold allowance on main home, and 40% London newbuild HTB. Both measures are easy give aways that don't cost Gov much, and won't prevent HPC. Simply projection whilst things get into position.

The UK was bankrupt before Osborne stood up to deliver his Autumn statement and still bankrupt when he sat down. The sand continues to slip through the hour-glass. Nothing has changed.

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I'm afraid to say I have a belief system that is hostile to the country as well

You could say decades of HPI and rigged game monopoly capitalism have radicalised me.

If anyone should go and fight, send in the rentiers and hereditary land owners. They are the ones with anything to loose

My 'price' for supporting this country is an LVT and massive land reform, and turfing the hereditary bums off their stolen land and out of power for good.

People have recently said to me "wow you have really turned to the left now" No I haven't. I'm still a capitalist, which isn't the shit perversion we are currently presented with.

Damn right.

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I think it has belatedly dawned on them that there is a whole huge swathe of 20s to 40-pluses who are massively

hacked off with paying ever inflating rents to LLs who raise them because they can; who can't save anything like enough for a deposit because of said rents, and who can't understand how the system has been skewed so heavily in favour of LLs. And equally there is an even bigger swathe of these people's parents, who worry about how on earth their kids are ever going to be able to afford even a modest family home.

All of which = a hefty lot of votes.

Agree. Sentiment is changing even from those who have done nicely from HPI. Or think they had.

Anecdotally I met a work friend for lunch last week. House now "worth" about 700k, 3 kids, ranging from late 20's to early 30's. One has gone abroad as there was no point paying rent in London anymore. The other two are paying out the usual 1k each in housing costs in London, can't save, can't ever buy. She's rich in housing, but not in the available cash needed to help all 3 of them live locally (about 300k for deposits). She can't remortgage that amount at her age, wants to stop work soon anyway, and selling the house isn't a solution as she still needs a house. There was the horrible ugly realisation that the rite of passage for her kids was broken, and marriage and grandkids was never happening if housing prices continue to spiral. Amazingly, for a Tory voting Turkey at Christmas, she now wants prices to crash.

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I'm afraid to say I have a belief system that is hostile to the country as well

You could say decades of HPI and rigged game monopoly capitalism have radicalised me.

If anyone should go and fight, send in the rentiers and hereditary land owners. They are the ones with anything to loose

My 'price' for supporting this country is an LVT and massive land reform, and turfing the hereditary bums off their stolen land and out of power for good.

People have recently said to me "wow you have really turned to the left now" No I haven't. I'm still a capitalist, which isn't the shit perversion we are currently presented with.

The social contract is truly dead.

My age group is living at home forever on terrible minimum wage jobs. The vast majority of them are oblivious to why. They have decided to eschew future planning and career and prioritise having fun and enjoying themselves in the moment instead. This is why people think that younger generations are 'entitled', as they have decided to prioritise short term happiness over the long term. I believe it is a coping mechanism. They continue to spend all their money on Friday nights, renting in London, nightclubs and on holiday. It does not help that my generation is pretty damn narcissistic.

What is worse, they do not realise that this hedonistic entitlement has been encouraged by advertising. The drive to always appear as if you are having fun, living your life right now to the full.

This video is by a company that allows people to pay rent payments via credit cards with an eye watering 3% charge. In other words, young people should be spending the entire salary and getting into debt as much as possible.

This video is celebrating that people are somehow choosing to rent. People of my generation are lapping this up. Renting is more flexible. They see this as a good thing. It is mind blowing.

'We are free'?

Are you ******ing serious?

This is why the social contract is completely dead for me. What is in it for me is now my default response to absolutely everything. This is my response to my older family members who have HPI views when they demand my time and my spending of money, they can piss right off. They are complicit in what they have done to my generation with their greed. I am tired of paying incredible amounts of tax to my local councillors, to BTL landlords interest relief, to tax credit claimants and housing benefit claimants and help to buy claimants. I am tired of paying for my own impoverishment.

Edited by phantominvestor

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Meanwhile some of the 118ers/Tribes BTLers let slip concern about their own future insolvency after Budget/Autumn Statement changes. ("I'm an entrepenuer and capitalist and how can conservatives do this, I voted them").

Including those who have gone on a debt spree buying up houses/HMOs around universities.

Things can change for the better. Although many of us are really caught up in the worst of it in the here and now. Some of us lived through all the 'glory' years as well, slogging to save towards getting a housing position vs runaway HPI, then hit by bailout reflation HPI.

One of the BTLers earlier this year, weeks before Budget, was cheering himself for buying another new house (very expensive to me, not to him) and carving up more rooms for bedrooms. All about his own gains. Bragging he had put down healthy deposit (but still hundreds of thousands in BTL mortgage debt). Now with budget changes to tax relief to contend with, and what may be cooling investor demand with stamp duty changes.

One change I'm noticing is finally some hpcers getting a bit annoyed, so many now have a stomach for hpc, instead of worrying for all other owners seeing value of their houses (It's their home') fall from super expensive heights.

All those excuses and concern for other market participants (2005-06-07 buyers) and the outpouring in 2008+ just led to 0.5% and Global QE, then even more extreme rent-extraction and twisting of realities; projecting that senior productive-better-qualified workers than many gone before, want to HTB or to rent all their lives, to the thrill of older owners/BTLers and VI rent companies + media.

'We are free?'

Are you ******ing serious?

This is why the social contract is completely dead for me. What is in it for me is now my default response to absolutely everything. This is my response to my older family members who have HPI views when they demand my time and my spending of money, they can piss right off. They are complicit in what they have done to my generation with their greed. I am tired of paying incredible amounts of tax to my local councillors, to BTL landlords interest relief, to tax credit claimants and housing benefit claimants and help to buy claimants. I am tired of paying for my own impoverishment.

Can only hope when the market turns there are some initial steep falls and opportunities. At the moment though renting is okay, allowing the landlord/BTL side to carry the balance sheet risk. It better come in soon though (some confirmed HPC).

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It looks like the Cons are turning. Not massive turn, but it shows that they are watching the statistics.

The new HTB wont make a difference. Not enough houses and still subsidisation by BOE so prices will rise far more than income.

Expect PRS share by 2020 should be 25-30% of population and parties will be keen to get their votes.

BTL is the first one to be shaken.

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Are you ******ing serious?

This is why the social contract is completely dead for me. What is in it for me is now my default response to absolutely everything. This is my response to my older family members who have HPI views when they demand my time and my spending of money, they can piss right off. They are complicit in what they have done to my generation with their greed. I am tired of paying incredible amounts of tax to my local councillors, to BTL landlords interest relief, to tax credit claimants and housing benefit claimants and help to buy claimants. I am tired of paying for my own impoverishment.

Fantastic post in full but the above passage sums up exactly how i feel.

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I think the Tories are banking on the BTL brigade having nowhere to go. Whatever this government does a Corbyn led government is likely to be even more unhelpful to their cause.

The Tories have done nothing to materially improve tenants rights as yet (and I suspect that they won't). The Labour party may look at issues like long tern security of tenure and "in tenancy" rent controls and conclude that there are votes there...they certainly won't be repealing Clause 24.

Ros and her mates will still have to vote Conservative at the next election.

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Great post.

Hear, hear. I couldn't have voiced my own feelings any clearer. Fight for the country? Support war? Don't make me laugh. My country hates me. Hates its people. They treat us like scum to be gouged. How can a country not build good quality, affordable homes for its people?

Funny enough, I had just this conversation with someone the other week who was postulating if Russian relations broke down more there may be a land war in europe. I said that if the government thinks me and mine are picking up a rifle to defend the country, they are deluded after the traitorous actions of the past 30 years against middle and working class england - he looked at me like I was mental.

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This is why the social contract is completely dead for me. What is in it for me is now my default response to absolutely everything. This is my response to my older family members who have HPI views when they demand my time and my spending of money, they can piss right off. They are complicit in what they have done to my generation with their greed. I am tired of paying incredible amounts of tax to my local councillors, to BTL landlords interest relief, to tax credit claimants and housing benefit claimants and help to buy claimants. I am tired of paying for my own impoverishment.

In bold = absolutely bang on. I've been using this one for a few years now. Boomer HPI in laws "why don't you come on holiday with us?" Us: "Sorry, house prices too high, saving, holidays aren't affordable, will do once there's a crash,". I use that for every single thing I used to feel obliged to do so as not to "upset" anyone. They can have their HPI, which we're all paying for, but not our time and additional costs as well. One or the other. Get the message.

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In bold = absolutely bang on. I've been using this one for a few years now. Boomer HPI in laws "why don't you come on holiday with us?" Us: "Sorry, house prices too high, saving, holidays aren't affordable, will do once there's a crash,". I use that for every single thing I used to feel obliged to do so as not to "upset" anyone. They can have their HPI, which we're all paying for, but not our time and additional costs as well. One or the other. Get the message.

This happens to me all the time. Grandparents inviting me to weddings and christenings on the other side of the world, expecting me to stump up flights and hotel costs to live out their old age retirement fantasy. They get angry and try make me feel guilty. I cannot physically afford weddings, funerals and holidays that you take for granted fuelled by other peoples debt.

I have scores of relatives who only go not for family reasons but for the filthy hope of an inheritance. It is just sickening and I want no part of it. One day I might tell them why I do not go.

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There has been a change in sentiment. I can't help wondering if this is when the public anger surfaces.

Renters have been slapped in the face for decades and generally we have kept our mouths shut accepted our lot and gone to work.

Now a hope, a scent that things might be changing...I just wonder if it will awaken something quietly festering in the population.

Edited by growlers

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