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Government Faces Legal Threat Over Controversial Plan To Make Students Pay £6,000 Extra On Loans

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/autumn-statement-ministers-face-legal-threat-after-sneaking-out-plan-to-make-students-pay-6000-extra-a6748751.html

Ministers could face a legal challenge after being accused of sneaking out a “socially regressive” announcement that will lead to thousands of students having to pay back up to £6,000 more on their tuition fee loans.

Under changes made in the Government’s Autumn Statement, the threshold at which students have to start paying back their loan will be frozen at £21,000 for the next five years and will be applied retrospectively for all those who started degrees since 2012.

It means students will have to start repaying their loans earlier and will hit middle earners the most, who will have to pay an extra £6,000 on average, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

Worthy of a thread on it's own I think. I wonder if this could have a negative impact on student numbers? Why would anyone trust the government.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/autumn-statement-ministers-face-legal-threat-after-sneaking-out-plan-to-make-students-pay-6000-extra-a6748751.html

Worthy of a thread on it's own I think. I wonder if this could have a negative impact on student numbers? Why would anyone trust the government.

Why would anyone trust the government on anything? It is something that should be taught in schools!

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Why would anyone trust the government on anything? It is something that should be taught in schools!

Unfortunately the government is in control of the school system, so that's not likely :)

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I told my Sister who has all the student loans that the government could change the payback criteria anytime it wanted and also that the loans cannot be written off under bankruptcy.

She didn't want to believe me.

Guess she'll be stumping up another £6k then.

Edited by workingpoor

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Current student loan arrangements were a very bad deal already and I would advise any English child thinking of going to University to go get a job instead. The whole system is sickening - remember this is the only time it's legal to give debts to children. I was 17 when I got my first student loan and went off to Uni. It's a Catch 22 because not only is the job market increasingly flooded with overqualified graduates but there is value in the 'right of passage' and having a clear escape route from the family home.

University should be paid for by the government, and we should decide how many places we can afford. When the most academic 10% of the population went graduates probably did earn significantly more, and the logic of the loan is that you could use that earnings premium to pay it back. I doubt that is still the case now.

But saying all that - seriously what did people expect?! Of course the government can change the rules.

I was surprised when student numbers stayed the same the year they introduced the 9k regime. If you didn't want to be in debt you shouldn't have taken out the loan.

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They are sowing the seeds of their own destruction. The benefits of working are already suspect at the moment so punishing those that are making the effort to get educated by removing even more of their income will not come without consequences.

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The young need to learn the main tool of government.Fiscal drag.It was certain that would be frozen.100% certain.

The Department for Business said the change had been made because graduate earnings had not risen as much as expected.

Unexpected?

Edited by durhamborn

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/autumn-statement-ministers-face-legal-threat-after-sneaking-out-plan-to-make-students-pay-6000-extra-a6748751.html

Worthy of a thread on it's own I think. I wonder if this could have a negative impact on student numbers? Why would anyone trust the government.

Higher education is a state monopoly unfortunately.

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Part-time and post-graduate students get a boost from the Chancellor as he extends student loans and help with living costs

0ECA568700000578-0-image-a-4_14484623392 Part-time students have been handed some good news in today's Autumn Statement with access to maintenance loans to help with living costs during their studies from 2017/18

Although the Mail has this as good news! We need to get more people to take on debt so this makes sense....

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Part-time and post-graduate students get a boost from the Chancellor as he extends student loans and help with living costs

0ECA568700000578-0-image-a-4_14484623392 Part-time students have been handed some good news in today's Autumn Statement with access to maintenance loans to help with living costs during their studies from 2017/18

Although the Mail has this as good news! We need to get more people to take on debt so this makes sense....

Yay! Helping people to get more debt spun as good news!

wtflol.

Edited by Errol

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Current student loan arrangements were a very bad deal already and I would advise any English child thinking of going to University to go get a job instead. The whole system is sickening - remember this is the only time it's legal to give debts to children. I was 17 when I got my first student loan and went off to Uni. It's a Catch 22 because not only is the job market increasingly flooded with overqualified graduates but there is value in the 'right of passage' and having a clear escape route from the family home.

University should be paid for by the government, and we should decide how many places we can afford. When the most academic 10% of the population went graduates probably did earn significantly more, and the logic of the loan is that you could use that earnings premium to pay it back. I doubt that is still the case now.

But saying all that - seriously what did people expect?! Of course the government can change the rules.

I was surprised when student numbers stayed the same the year they introduced the 9k regime. If you didn't want to be in debt you shouldn't have taken out the loan.

Yep, back when I was a filthy student you got into university on academic merit and if you got your grades and landed a place, the government paid for everything (fees plus a decent grant .. plus you could even sign on over the summer break). If you graduated, you had immediate access to a ream of well paid careers. Even if you didn't do a degree, it was still possible to get a pretty good job off the back of A levels and do part-time further education if you wanted, or work your way up.

Since those days, the Tories brought in the concept of making people pay which Labour continued with and then Labour decided to push more and more people into higher level eductation even just to do 'Mickey Mouse' courses with no real career value. The Tories of course continued with that too.

The end result is that a degree has been devalued to the point where it is hardly worth more than an old A level and you have to pay through the nose to get it. When you do get it, you can't expect to earn anything like what the graduates of old could and you now have a ton of debt against you from day one of your working life which can't be written off. But ... if you don't have a degree, a lot of career paths are now closed off to you because a (now devalued) degree has replaced A levels.

Basically, only the children of the rich can now afford to get a degree (risk/reward makes it a very dodgy prospect for the poor) and without one you have fupp all chance of getting any sort of decent job. It's a complete disgrace.

But hey, the general public are so dumb that they've gone along with the process of destroying higher education for the last 2-3 decades.

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Yep, back when I was a filthy student you got into university on academic merit and if you got your grades and landed a place, the government paid for everything (fees plus a decent grant .. plus you could even sign on over the summer break). If you graduated, you had immediate access to a ream of well paid careers. Even if you didn't do a degree, it was still possible to get a pretty good job off the back of A levels and do part-time further education if you wanted, or work your way up.

Since those days, the Tories brought in the concept of making people pay which Labour continued with and then Labour decided to push more and more people into higher level eductation even just to do 'Mickey Mouse' courses with no real career value. The Tories of course continued with that too.

The end result is that a degree has been devalued to the point where it is hardly worth more than an old A level and you have to pay through the nose to get it. When you do get it, you can't expect to earn anything like what the graduates of old could and you now have a ton of debt against you from day one of your working life which can't be written off. But ... if you don't have a degree, a lot of career paths are now closed off to you because a (now devalued) degree has replaced A levels.

+1

Basically, only the children of the rich can now afford to get a degree (risk/reward makes it a very dodgy prospect for the poor) and without one you have fupp all chance of getting any sort of decent job. It's a complete disgrace.

But hey, the general public are so dumb that they've gone along with the process of destroying higher education for the last 2-3 decades.

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Yep, back when I was a filthy student you got into university on academic merit and if you got your grades and landed a place, the government paid for everything (fees plus a decent grant .. plus you could even sign on over the summer break). If you graduated, you had immediate access to a ream of well paid careers. Even if you didn't do a degree, it was still possible to get a pretty good job off the back of A levels and do part-time further education if you wanted, or work your way up.

Since those days, the Tories brought in the concept of making people pay which Labour continued with and then Labour decided to push more and more people into higher level eductation even just to do 'Mickey Mouse' courses with no real career value. The Tories of course continued with that too.

The end result is that a degree has been devalued to the point where it is hardly worth more than an old A level and you have to pay through the nose to get it. When you do get it, you can't expect to earn anything like what the graduates of old could and you now have a ton of debt against you from day one of your working life which can't be written off. But ... if you don't have a degree, a lot of career paths are now closed off to you because a (now devalued) degree has replaced A levels.

Basically, only the children of the rich can now afford to get a degree (risk/reward makes it a very dodgy prospect for the poor) and without one you have fupp all chance of getting any sort of decent job. It's a complete disgrace.

But hey, the general public are so dumb that they've gone along with the process of destroying higher education for the last 2-3 decades.

Do you think that the rush to get more young people into higher education was due to a blind panic at worsening employment opportunities? An out and out scam to create 'activity'? Or perhaps ideological, as in individuals paying for everything and the 'toll booth society'? I'm struggling to see what the ultimate goal is here and what success is supposed to look like.

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Do you think that the rush to get more young people into higher education was due to a blind panic at worsening employment opportunities? An out and out scam to create 'activity'? Or perhaps ideological, as in individuals paying for everything and the 'toll booth society'? I'm struggling to see what the ultimate goal is here and what success is supposed to look like.

It was pure economic illiteracy.

The logic was that people with degrees had higher salaries and overall better employment options, so if we had more people with degrees then we'd have more jobs with better salaries.

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It was pure economic illiteracy.

The logic was that people with degrees had higher salaries and overall better employment options, so if we had more people with degrees then we'd have more jobs with better salaries.

+1

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It was pure economic illiteracy.

The logic was that people with degrees had higher salaries and overall better employment options, so if we had more people with degrees then we'd have more jobs with better salaries.

Yet logic I still see repeated everywhere today.

They say "the average graduate salary" starts at £30k. Then you look into it and realise that is the average for large graduate recruiters on highly competitive schemes.

The actual average starting salary is about £18k.

And who is to say that it is actually the degree that is adding value? The type of people who go to University would likely have reached the same type of level of career success anyway. My Economics degree has naff all relevance to my IT consultancy work. University was great, I had the time of my life and gained hugely in a lot of ways. However in reality I could have easily faked my qualifications, no-one has ever asked to see my degree certificate!

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