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anonguest

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They deserve.

Deserve what? Sympathy?

Not from me.

I've heard, many a time in various different ways, that one of the distinctions between upper classes and middle classes is that the uppers don't parade their dirty laundry or personal woes in public. By this measure this shameless pair are most certainly middle class.

Sometimes when I read these types of articles they seem to be so increasingly outrageous, especially in the unashamed sense of entitlement of the 'victims', I'm less and less sure if I'm actually reading a spoof article from The Onion or The Daily Mash.

Finally, is it just me or does anyone else also seem to notice that the victims in these types of articles always do some ostensibly socially useless job - very rarely anything that could be construed as either genuinely wealth creating or essential to wider society?

Edited by anonguest

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I don't think I'd hire a management consultant who's incapable of budgeting to support a family of 4 on £190k.....do these people even think of what the look like to the outside world.

That's another point that always baffles me.

Either these sorts of publicity seeking twits are.....

(i) So incredibly vain that they really cannot understand or appreciate how pathetic they will appear to others, or

(ii) They are aware but have weighed up the pros and cons and decided, because money trumps everything including personal dignity, that the publicity will, somehow, lead to a new source of revenue to solve the financial problems they are publicising.

Edited by anonguest

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Http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/we-earn-190k-a-year-should-we-sell-a-child-so-we-can-buy-another-flat-20151120104033

You've been had. The Telegraph piece is clearly a spoof of a heart breaking story inThe Mash.

or something...

You're right. It really is getting harder to tell bona fide newspaper reports from parody these days......

http://newsthump.com/2015/08/22/teenager-removed-from-family-after-being-radicalised-by-tory-ideology/

Edited by anonguest

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To me it looks like they are simply attention seeking and given there is already 96 comments it looks like they are getting a little of what they wanted.

I'm not a clever financial planner but here's how I'd solve it. They have £8,000 in credit card debt. They have a property worth £725,000 with debt of £510,000. They have a BTL worth £315,000 with a debt of £170,000. Ok here we go:

- Sell the house, pay off the £8,000 and rent -> £215,000 cash

- Sell the BTL. My guess is the difference between 'value' and debt is probably all capital gain. So they'll be up for 28% tax but will get £11,000 of the gain tax free -> £107,480 cash

- Invest that £322,480 into a diversified portfolio of shares, bonds, gold, property etc.

- Live below your bl**dy means. In comparison I also live in London. After work costs (£222) and rent (£1,193) I'm spending on average £631 per month. Let's give them 50% more than I live well on because 'they're worth it'. So they're spending £3,069 per month. Net the're bringing in £10,000 per month. Invest the £6,931 difference.

Right they're now set up. Let's let them stay in London until they have accrued enough to be financially independent. Once there then move out of London, buy a modest but lovely home, near a good school, say £350,000 and live off a very healthy £24,000 per year (50% more than I think one needs to live well). So they're looking for net worth of £1.3M at a 2.5% withdrawal rate.

They have the £322,480 to get them started and can now save at least £83,172 per year (could do better with some pension cleverness etc but let's keep it simple). Let's assume they're investments return a real (after inflation) 4%.

Stay at it for 9 years and they've accrued £1,374,000 and they're done. The world is now their oyster and their stress levels drop to 0.

I've simplified a little and I'm sure I haven't thought of everything but this is effectively my journey except I'm looking for £1M as I'm living well on far less. I'm 8 years in and think I have about a year to go so it is definitely possible. You just have to want to do it rather than seek sympathy...

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Reminds me of some of those DM articles - the ones clearly intended to provoke buckets of Schadenfreude in readers who love

something to get outraged about.

I can't imagine many Telegraph readers - typically I would guess older and habitually careful with money - honestly feeling any shred of sympathy for these two.

What sort of people want to parade their finances in public like this?

And what sort of name is Emme, FGS? Emma with a German E? Poor kid will have to go through life endlessly telling people how to spell it.

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To me it looks like they are simply attention seeking and given there is already 96 comments it looks like they are getting a little of what they wanted.

I'm not a clever financial planner but here's how I'd solve it. They have £8,000 in credit card debt. They have a property worth £725,000 with debt of £510,000. They have a BTL worth £315,000 with a debt of £170,000. Ok here we go:

- Sell the house, pay off the £8,000 and rent -> £215,000 cash

- Sell the BTL. My guess is the difference between 'value' and debt is probably all capital gain. So they'll be up for 28% tax but will get £11,000 of the gain tax free -> £107,480 cash

- Invest that £322,480 into a diversified portfolio of shares, bonds, gold, property etc.

- Live below your bl**dy means. In comparison I also live in London. After work costs (£222) and rent (£1,193) I'm spending on average £631 per month. Let's give them 50% more than I live well on because 'they're worth it'. So they're spending £3,069 per month. Net the're bringing in £10,000 per month. Invest the £6,931 difference.

Right they're now set up. Let's let them stay in London until they have accrued enough to be financially independent. Once there then move out of London, buy a modest but lovely home, near a good school, say £350,000 and live off a very healthy £24,000 per year (50% more than I think one needs to live well). So they're looking for net worth of £1.3M at a 2.5% withdrawal rate.

They have the £322,480 to get them started and can now save at least £83,172 per year (could do better with some pension cleverness etc but let's keep it simple). Let's assume they're investments return a real (after inflation) 4%.

Stay at it for 9 years and they've accrued £1,374,000 and they're done. The world is now their oyster and their stress levels drop to 0.

I've simplified a little and I'm sure I haven't thought of everything but this is effectively my journey except I'm looking for £1M as I'm living well on far less. I'm 8 years in and think I have about a year to go so it is definitely possible. You just have to want to do it rather than seek sympathy...

I dont think it is solvable. Purely because I dont think these two earn 190k a year. Theyve got confused on a self cert mortgage or they had one good year and think thats what they deserve every year. I knew someone once who was always banging on about her 1k per day income. She was only ever on 1k if she'd have reached much senior level, not had kids and actually went back to work after kids were born, which she could never quite muster.

Did the article ask for evidence of their income.

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Just love this line "The couple also own two properties with a combined value of more than £1m, putting them in the wealthiest 1pc of households in Britain."

No they don't. The bank owns both of them and if they sold up today for what they are 'worth' they'd have wealth of £322k. Quite a long way from £1M I'd say although I must admit I am a bit slow with maths...

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...

For those out there that have any common sense and more importantly have enough self esteem and personality to not need stuff for the sake of needing stuff and who are in a financial mess is to sell get a pad and pen and a bottle of wine or two and whittle that monthly expenditure as low as you possibly can, so many people could get it well below 50% and that does not include the money made on sale of assets that are adding to the stress.

...

For me this is a critical paragraph. Why don't people just stop competing and think for 5 minutes. I've lost friends over it but they really weren't friends now that I think about it. It's not hard to live well on not very much in this (once?) great country.

I'm saving 55% of gross earnings and it's amazing how liberating that is. The tax man gets the lions share of the remainder. After only a few years it really does take the pressure off work and enables you to think very differently about life.

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Just love this line "The couple also own two properties with a combined value of more than £1m, putting them in the wealthiest 1pc of households in Britain."

No they don't. The bank owns both of them and if they sold up today for what they are 'worth' they'd have wealth of £322k. Quite a long way from £1M I'd say although I must admit I am a bit slow with maths...

Most people are not strong on telling the difference between £1m of mortgage debt and £1m of equity. Mortgages just pay themselves, don't they?

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Whilst I wouldn't expect most people to have sympathy for them, I do to a degree, as I can image how much tax they are paying on that gross income.
Probably enough tax to fund 3 shameless breeder families from some sink estate somewhere.

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Most people are not strong on telling the difference between £1m of mortgage debt and £1m of equity. Mortgages just pay themselves, don't they?

Compared to the average punter he's a very highly paid 'management consultant'. I'd expect one of those should be able to do a very simple balance sheet which would quickly show liabilities (all debt ) of £688k. If he can't then I'd say a train wreck is coming very quickly.

As an aside they look like two jobs that could easily be outsourced to a low cost country or become obsolete in the next downturn. If I was in that situation and had £688k worth of debt weighing me down I wouldn't be sleeping until I put a Plan B into action.

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Whilst I wouldn't expect most people to have sympathy for them, I do to a degree, as I can image how much tax they are paying on that gross income.

Probably enough tax to fund 3 shameless breeder families from some sink estate somewhere.

In my case I live on far less than HMRC takes. To rub salt into the wounds HMRC have then just asked me for another £7k for 14/15 tax year because I dared to build up a nice portfolio of assets that pay dividends. What's surreal for me is knowing that a portion of the taxes I pay are actually being used to bid up my rent and also are pushing me to leave this great country because my taxes are also pushing/pushed up the price of a future home. I've effectively self harmed.

That said in many cases things happen for a reason and my families life 1 year or so hence is looking very rosy indeed so I'm not overly angry.

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They're paying about £70,000 per year.

And a vast proportion of that tax is by choice from their idiotic decisions and lifestyle choices, assuming both partners have a relatively equal income.

If we assume say the bloke is on 120k, and his wife on 70k (given she works 4 days), they should each be lumping 40k into a pension, sal sac'd. This would reduce their taxable income considerably. She'd be paying ~5k then, and him 25 ish. Mental arithmetic but shouldnt be far off the mark.

There, i just more than halved their tax bill. Still a lot, but it would effectively reduce their overall tax rate to under 20%. Until ozzy btl relief change kicks in anyway.

Its a nonsense. How on earth people like this get into these positions of earning these fantastic sums whilst remainjng utterly clueless is the biggest mystery.

Edited by Frugal Git

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And a vast proportion of that tax is by choice from their idiotic decisions and lifestyle choices, assuming both partners have a relatively equal income.

If we assume say the bloke is on 120k, and his wife on 70k (given she works 4 days), they should each be lumping 40k into a pension, sal sac'd. This would reduce their taxable income considerably. She'd be paying ~5k then, and him 25 ish. Mental arithmetic but shouldnt be far off the mark.

There, i just more than halved their tax bill. Still a lot, but it would effectively reduce their overall tax rate to under 20%. Until ozzy btl relief change kicks in anyway.

Its a nonsense. How on earth people like this get into these positions of earning these fantastic sums whilst remainjng utterly clueless is the biggest mystery.

You and I both know that. I'll get pretty close to £40k socked away into the pension this year. When Ossie does his bash those trying to look after their future without needing benefits pensions trick (maybe start it next week?) I'll adapt that to a much lower number and really ramp the cash for home fund. Take the breaks while they're there, stay informed, stay liquid and then adapt is my motto. Quite a few highly leveraged BTL'ers maybe should be doing the same thing but that's another thread.

Of course if you spend every penny you earn (they do after all have £8k of credit card debt) options like this aren't available. A fool and their money...

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You and I both know that. I'll get pretty close to £40k socked away into the pension this year. When Ossie does his bash those trying to look after their future without needing benefits pensions trick (maybe start it next week?) I'll adapt that to a much lower number and really ramp the cash for home fund.

I've still got a glimmer of hope that he either doesn't mess about with pensions for now, or does the 30% relief for everyone thing that was rumoured (which would be a gift for me as a lower rate tax payer to begin with - although as previously discussed - i don't believe that would be fair to 40% tax payers but I'll take it ;-) ).

Whatever the case may be though, adapt and survive as you say.

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The "backlash" has reached the Daily Mail :lol: ;

Won't somebody think of the management consultants? Couple earning £190,000 who told of their heartache at not being able to afford private schools face sarcastic backlash and even a GoFundMe campaign

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3328220/Won-t-somebody-think-management-consultants-Couple-earning-190-000-told-heartache-not-able-afford-private-schools-face-sarcastic-backlash-GoFundMe-campaign.html

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I've known people with far less money than this coming in, that manage to give their children a fantastic education, without paying a "private school". I'll bet these people have no books in their house! :rolleyes:

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I've known people with far less money than this coming in, that manage to give their children a fantastic education, without paying a "private school". I'll bet these people have no books in their house! :rolleyes:

Yep. Loads of really good state schools out there (my kids go to one). I think a lot of people are just snobs who like the kudos of telling their friends at dinner parties that their kids go to private schools. It has also been proven that private school educated children don't end up earning that much more than their peers when they are adults.

Edited by fru-gal

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