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41% Of U K Adults Want House Prices To Fall

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'Start to slow down'

What ********.

Why wasn't fall an option?

Yep. It's complete ********.

* Continue to rise

* Start (ie only begin to) Slow down (the speed at which they RISE, but they'll still RISE, baby)

* Don't know

"Go down" is thus equated with someone who doesn't know/hasn't a clue

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Most people are pretty simplistic when it comes to price. I've already tried to explain to a friend who wants to get on the 'second rung' how higher prices hurt him.

Nope. He says 'if only my house wen't up 25%, I could buy somewhere bigger'

The fact that its almost certain the next rung up also rises 25%, and 25% of 250k is a lot more than 25% of 150k doesnt seem to enter his head. In fact he seems almost offended I even mention it.

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They're hoping their rung will increase faster than the next rung up. Maybe it will maybe it won't but in general the market moves pretty much simultaneously maybe with only slight differences. No harm in fruitless hoping though?

Lower prices benefit most everyone except the VIs, bankers and crony politicians etc. Of course the daft who buy at almost any price are just daft.

Edited by billybong

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ING did a similar survey across a number of European countries (download the full report here, infographic and article below here). I haven't looked into the total number of UK participants but of those surveyed 57% of UK homeowners and 75% of UK renters said that they either agree or strongly agree that "It would be good for society if house prices fell."

Would a fall in house prices be good for society?

Findings of a new ING survey suggest concern that the next generation is locked out of owning.

Generation Rent is the name given to the growing group who, unlike previous generations, cannot afford to buy a home. The ING International Survey on Homes and Mortgages 2015 asked almost 15,000 in 15 countries about how they finance their home and why they live where they do.

The below infographic captures insights including:

79% in Europe agree first time buyers are facing increasingly difficult conditions. The view is held by most age groups – 25-year-olds are as likely as over-50s to agree.

72% in Europe agree it would be good for society if house prices fell. Agreement is even high among owners, with 69% agreeing.

52% aged 25-to-34 think of owning a house purely as an investment. Despite – or perhaps because of – the financial challenges facing first time buyers, this age group is the most likely to hold the view.

44% in Europe agree buying a home is no longer an attractive way to build up wealth – but 45% disagree. Opinion appears spilt on whether “climbing the property ladder” is still possible for Generation Rent.

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Or "start to slow down" at least...

Yougov Survey

The demographical information is worth a look. Unsurprisingly the strongest support for "continue to rise" are the 60+ and 40-59 age groups, with the later group showing least support for "start to slow down"). All seems to support the idea that those who have "done well" out of HPI and/or have MEW'd and are without children (or grandchildren) in the mid-20's (house buying age) are biggest supporters of HPI.

By Age%                Total       18-24      25-39      40-59      60+     Continue to rise        32         15         31         35         36     Start to slow down      41         47         44         36         43     Don't know              27         38         25         29         21

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Its funny but the question shouldnt cover most of the north.Prices here are roughly the same/slightly down as 2003 in nominal terms.Down a large amount inflation adjusted.

One part should be "continue to fall in real terms for the next 12 years like they have the last 12 years".

I think we are probably the only part of the country where houses have done this though.

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Best bit of advice I was ever given was take control of your THINKING, if you don't someone else will.

And what people need to understand about the "sophistication" of British government policy is that it is anything but, The reason why house prices are so high is that governments now have to keep them there. There is so much property debt out there that a huge fall in prices would bring the UK to it's knees. I cannot speak for anyone else on this board, but I am constantly told by BTL landlords, speculators and just regular homeowners who have borrowed too much that if their false illusionary property gains are taken away and they go into serious debt they will "Just walk away". and I am sure the government know this.

It really does make me angry that when people borrow money from friends there is an honour in paying it back, borrow off banks and the like and they can go whistle if things go wrong, it is basically high stake gambling with no consequences should and when things go wrong.

Please try it yourselves, go to one of the many property investment boards and ask what their plans are if it all goes wrong, even if they can still afford to pay the debt repayments back on a depreciating asset, so many will just stick their fingers up, I would put them in prison, they too the gamble.

I've said it before here, re-introduce debtors prisons and use them. After a couple of years the deterrent value would make them largely unnecessary.

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Most people are pretty simplistic when it comes to price. I've already tried to explain to a friend who wants to get on the 'second rung' how higher prices hurt him.

Nope. He says 'if only my house wen't up 25%, I could buy somewhere bigger'

The fact that its almost certain the next rung up also rises 25%, and 25% of 250k is a lot more than 25% of 150k doesnt seem to enter his head. In fact he seems almost offended I even mention it.

When I "made" £60k on my flat a few years ago colleagues said "you were so fortunate" even when I showed them my workings i.e that the house I bought had gone up by £92k and therefore rising prices had cost me £32K - they weren't convinced that rising prices were not a good thing (btw I ignored the extra stamp duty that I had paid so it was a little bit more than £32k!)

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Rising prices are not a bad thing per se if they are inline with wage inflation, and therein lies the problem.

Real economic growth means things get cheaper relative to incomes (wages). Life would be very different if you could buy a family house for £10k.

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Best bit of advice I was ever given was take control of your THINKING, if you don't someone else will.

And what people need to understand about the "sophistication" of British government policy is that it is anything but, The reason why house prices are so high is that governments now have to keep them there. There is so much property debt out there that a huge fall in prices would bring the UK to it's knees. I cannot speak for anyone else on this board, but I am constantly told by BTL landlords, speculators and just regular homeowners who have borrowed too much that if their false illusionary property gains are taken away and they go into serious debt they will "Just walk away". and I am sure the government know this.

It really does make me angry that when people borrow money from friends there is an honour in paying it back, borrow off banks and the like and they can go whistle if things go wrong, it is basically high stake gambling with no consequences should and when things go wrong.

Please try it yourselves, go to one of the many property investment boards and ask what their plans are if it all goes wrong, even if they can still afford to pay the debt repayments back on a depreciating asset, so many will just stick their fingers up, I would put them in prison, they too the gamble.

They may find it harder to "Just walk away" than they think if they have any remaining income, and I suspect when it comes to BTL lenders will push for significantly longer than average Income Payment Orders:

Guide to Bankruptcy

What happens to your pension

Most pension schemes aren’t included in your bankruptcy (for bankruptcy orders made after 29 May 2000) and they can’t be claimed by the trustee.

The pension scheme must be a UK state pension scheme or a scheme approved or registered by HM Revenue & Customs. Approved or registered pension schemes are usually:

  • occupational (employers) pension schemes approved for tax purposes
  • personal pensions approved for tax purposes
  • stakeholder pensions
  • retirement annuity contracts

If your pension scheme is not an approved or registered scheme you may be able to exclude it from your bankruptcy by:

  • applying to the court for an ‘exclusion order’, or
  • making a qualifying agreement (an understanding with the trustee that the pension should be excluded)

If your pension is part of the bankruptcy, it can be used to make payments to your creditors.

Pension Payments

Payments made to you from your pension scheme, including any lump sums, before the end of your bankruptcy can be used as part of an Income Payments Agreement (IPA) or Income Payments Order (IPO). This will involve you paying some of your debt with your income.

If you are able to take money from your pension following changes to the law in April 2015, but have chosen not to do so, the trustee may look at the value of your available pension fund. If this would give you access to enough money to make a different arrangement to pay your creditors, the trustee can ask the court to cancel (annul) the bankruptcy.

Death benefits

If you die while bankrupt the trustee will claim any death benefit, usually a lump sum payable from the pension, where a person hasn’t already been nominated to receive the benefit. If a person has been nominated within the pension scheme to receive the death benefit, it will still be paid to them.

[. . .]

What happens to your business

If you’re self-employed, your business will be closed. Any business assets will be claimed by the trustee.

Your employees may make a claim for unpaid wages and holiday pay, payment in place of notice, and redundancy. They’ll make this claim to the National Insurance Fund, or the money may be claimed in the bankruptcy process.

You can start trading again, but you’ll have to follow certain rules.

[. . .]

What happens to your life assurance policy

Your interest in the policy benefits will transfer to the trustee. They may sell or surrender the policy to collect money for your creditors. If you want to keep the policy, you may be able to work out a solution with the trustee.

Payments from your income

If you can afford it, the trustee will ask you to make regular payments towards your debts from your income through an income payment agreement (IPA). You enter an IPA voluntarily, but there’s a written binding agreement between you and the trustee.

If your main or only income is state benefits, the trustee will not normally try to get an IPA.

If you can’t agree on payment amounts for an IPA, the trustee can apply for an income payment order (IPO). If you don’t meet these payments, the trustee can then apply to extend your bankruptcy.

The payments will come from ‘surplus income’ (also known as real disposable income).This is money you have left after paying your living expenses. Normally you will have to pay all of this surplus income as your IPA payment.

Payments normally last for 3 years (longer than the period of bankruptcy itself). The court won’t make an IPO if it leaves you without enough money to meet everyday needs.

Your living expenses

You must give details of your income and spending in:

  • your statement of affairs - if you’ve applied for your own bankruptcy
  • the preliminary information questionnaire - if someone else has made you bankrupt

You’ll have to provide proof of income and spending and details of your spouse or partner’s income.

Normal monthly expenses are costs like rent, a mortgage, bills, food and clothing for you and your family (everyone who lives with you and depends on you). Your reasonable domestic needs may also include:

  • house insurance
  • mobile phone charges
  • vehicle expenses (if the trustee allows you to keep your car)
  • dry cleaning
  • prescriptions, dental treatment and opticians
  • membership of a professional body for your job

This is not a complete list and other expenses may be considered.

Changes in your income and lump sums

The IPA or IPO can be updated if your income changes. You must contact your trustee immediately if this happens; they can decide to reduce or increase your payments.

If you get a lump sum while you’re paying an IPA or IPO, you may be asked to make a one-off payment from it.

6.4 Missed payments

If you don’t make your payment, the trustee can:

  • arrange for you to pay a bit later if your problems are temporary
  • reduce or stop your payments if your income has gone down (you must tell the trustee if your income goes back up)
  • ask the court to take the money directly from your wages if you don’t meet your payments
  • suspend your discharge from bankruptcy, making you bankrupt for longer
  • take other legal action to recover the money

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I've said it before here, re-introduce debtors prisons and use them. After a couple of years the deterrent value would make them largely unnecessary.

We have something probably worse. Just put a charge on their future income.

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Yep. It's complete ********.

* Continue to rise

* Start (ie only begin to) Slow down (the speed at which they RISE, but they'll still RISE, baby)

* Don't know

"Go down" is thus equated with someone who doesn't know/hasn't a clue

Read this thread yesterday and your observation here is still making me smile. Here we actually have a questionnaire which boils down to the following:

Select the from the following options

  1. I think house prices will go up loads
  2. I think house prices will go up
  3. I don't think

Welcome to the land of the pwoperdee mad :rolleyes:

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Read this thread yesterday and your observation here is still making me smile. Here we actually have a questionnaire which boils down to the following:

Select the from the following options

  1. I think house prices will go up loads
  2. I think house prices will go up
  3. I don't think

Welcome to the land of the pwoperdee mad :rolleyes:

Excellent, very well put! :)

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