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Government Proposes Minimum Bedroom Size For Rental Properties

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http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/nov/06/government-proposes-minimum-bedroom-size-for-rental-properties

The government is proposing a national minimum bedroom size as part of a drive to stop landlords carving up houses into ever smaller rooms to maximise rental income.

Bedrooms in houses of multiple occupation would have to be a minimum of 6.5 sq m (70 sq ft), and landords letting rooms smaller than that would be guilty of a criminal offence.

The proposal was sparked by an outcry over “rabbit hutch properties”, many costing as much as £1,000 a month, as landlords cash in on the booming housing market, particularly in London.

In one instance, tenants at a flat in Hendon, north London, were forced to crawl on all fours to reach their rented bedroom, because the entrance was just 70cm high.

Do news builds with the tiny 3rd bedroom meet this requirement?

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This is great news, a (rather low) minimum level of simple human dignity, humanity and respect.

I am surprised it has only taken until 2015 for this to be a thing. It seems microprocessors were invented before we decided to allocate a minimum amount of space for people.

I will add that suffering, stress, anxiety and other social problems like crime arise when human density gets high. I think many problems in society are rooted in overcrowding - to unruly children together in cramped housing to the bustling metropolis of London and the death of courtesy.

Battery farmed animals peck each other and fish are violent when they are not given enough space. But maybe that is the whole point of keeping house prices high. Keep people 'territorial in the small' so they never look up at 'territorial in the big'.

Edited by phantominvestor

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This is great news, a (rather low) minimum level of simple human dignity, humanity and respect.

I am surprised it has only taken until 2015 for this to be a thing. It seems microprocessors were invented before we decided to allocate a minimum amount of space for people.

I will add that suffering, stress, anxiety and other social problems like crime arise when human density gets high. I think many problems in society are rooted in overcrowding - to unruly children together in cramped housing to the bustling metropolis of London and the death of courtesy.

Battery farmed animals peck each other and fish are violent when they are not given enough space. But maybe that is the whole point of keeping house prices high. Keep people 'territorial in the small' so they never look up at 'territorial in the big'.

Yep, long overdue, and one good way to keep greedy landlords in check.

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I think this is from the discussion paper directed only at HMO's, mores the pity.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/extending-mandatory-licensing-of-houses-in-multiple-occupation-and-related-reforms

Wouldn`t it only need to be applied to HMO`s though, doesn`t really matter how a flat for an individual/couple is partitioned, the rent is unlikely to be able to be pushed up because of the way the space is arranged?

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Mainly, yes. Not sure if it would cover large houses divided into self contained flats or bedsits or some of the minuscule 3rd bedrooms that can be found in new builds. Been some media coverage where councils have shut down small self contained flats though usually on the grounds of fire or health safety rather than on size.

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That means that some people will be displaced to accommodate the increased space requirements (increased space which is in itself of course good) but it seems to suggest an expansion of the rental market area to accommodate the displaced people. Unless it's just ignored which seems to happen a lot in the rental sector re overcrowding.

As the total number of properties is quite static it also suggests that tenants in overcrowded properties in London will be displaced to towns and cities elsewhere in the UK.

It also ties in with Victoria Coren saying (being encouraged to say?) on QT that workers should leave London.

Don't trust them to do anything truly beneficial. They clearly want to spread the congestion toxin even more - any wicked little thing to help to support crazy house prices.

Edited by billybong

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Perhaps just a coincidence, but 6.5 sq m is the size of a Victorian prison cell...

and don't they know it.

That's like where the crooked bankers and politicians should be now

Edited by billybong

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The small bedroom here is 61 square foot plus 12 ft of space on a raised bit over the stairs.
It's got a bed, bedside table in, 4ft wide shelf unit and 2 chests of drawers. It's a big enough room for a single person.

And these are the biggest "small" bedrooms for miles round here. Having viewed all the different types of houses I know that.

So... Estate agent measurements:
(2.75 M) X 2.48 M =
73.409869 square foot
They don't include the bit you can't actually stand on that's over the stairs in the estate agent measurement.

Bedrooms round here are (all three bedrooms in 4 style houses)

Bedroom 3 - 8'8" x 6'2" (2.64m x 1.88m) - 53.4234402 square foot

Bedroom 1 - 11'9" x 11'3" (3.58m x 3.43m) -

Bedroom 2 - 12'6" x 12'5" (3.81m x 3.78m) -

BEDROOM ONE 12' 3" x 10' 4 (max)" (3.73m x 3.15m)

BEDROOM TWO 12' 0" x 9' 0" (3.66m x 2.74m)

BEDROOM THREE 6' 9" x 6' 2" (2.06m x 1.88m) - 41.6864723 square foot


Bedroom One ...3.86m (12'8') x 3.17m (10'5')

Bedroom Two ...3.71m (12'2') x 2.74m (9'0')

Bedroom Three ...2.13m (7'0') x 2.01m (6'7') - 46.0835297 square foot

Bedroom One - 3.75M X 3.33M

Bedroom Two - 4.59M X 3.09M

Bedroom Three - 2.75M X 2.48M - 73.409869 square foot

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More work for builders and decorators of course to help the UK's GDP farce - along the lines of the waste of money broken window benefits. Knock down some partitions and walls and build some more and redecorate, rewire and recarpet (or at least cut and paste some old worn out carpet) etc etc - farcical economy trending and embedding itself more and more to the third world level (not that more space rather than rammed congestion isn't beneficial of course but shouldn't they have thought of that a long time ago - where do the resulting displaced go now).

Edited by billybong

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They can't mess with bedroom size as one argument used about bedroom tax was that some third bedrooms are too small to use as a bedroom.

Which is clearly going to make a huge mess of lot of stuff.

And where does it leave owners who have bought a property with a mortgage if the room size legally is not big enough to be a bedroom (And I don't see how the law could make it different for renters compared to owners) then suddenly they've got a 2 bedroom house with a large walk in cupboard rather than a 3 bed.
How does that screw up mortgages?

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More government tinkering :rolleyes:. I wish they'd just stay out of the housing market.

If the government stayed out, there would be no housing market.

When central government regulates landlords it is just one branch of government restricting another branch of government.

Cries of 'more state interference' are a category error, brought about by a century long effort to make believe that landlords are a kind of merchant rather than a kind of aristocrat.

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If the government stayed out, there would be no housing market.

When central government regulates landlords it is just one branch of government restricting another branch of government.

Cries of 'more state interference' are a category error, brought about by a century long effort to make believe that landlords are a kind of merchant rather than a kind of aristocrat.

There would be a housing market, but without government interference the houses would be a lot cheaper....... see my sig.

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They can't mess with bedroom size

You're missing the point.

The fact that the boxroom in my current 1930s 3-bedder is smaller than that doesn't matter. It's not my only space. Even if it were someone's bedroom in a non-HMO house, they'd have use of all the downstairs. That's what those boxrooms - and similarly tiny rooms in older cottages - were designed for.

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One of the problems with all these new regulations (including the new law regarding retaliatory evictions) is that so few tenants are actually aware of these new laws and their landlord is unlikely to tell them. I am sure there will be lots of tenants who don't realise that there are more regulations for landlords now which they need to fill but so many vulnerable tenants will not have the understanding or ability to access the information unless they are able to contact Shelter or get some help from the council. They need to publicise some of these things and make them widely known, otherwise rogue landlords will continue to exploit people, and most councils don't have the money to enforce these rules (because they currently can't keep all profits from fines etc).

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One of the problems with all these new regulations (including the new law regarding retaliatory evictions) is that so few tenants are actually aware of these new laws and their landlord is unlikely to tell them.

But if they do contact the Council's folks, they will explain.

A while back I did actually get the council man's help in persuading the landlord to fix something. He explained the risk of retaliatory evictions; I explained I was no longer so vulnerable as to fear that.

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You're missing the point.

The fact that the boxroom in my current 1930s 3-bedder is smaller than that doesn't matter. It's not my only space. Even if it were someone's bedroom in a non-HMO house, they'd have use of all the downstairs. That's what those boxrooms - and similarly tiny rooms in older cottages - were designed for.

But you can't define bedroom size differently for one group of people. That's be mad.

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There would be a housing market, but without government interference the houses would be a lot cheaper....... see my sig.

No. The housing market, as have known it for hundreds of years, is just one giant state intervention.

You can't object to state intervention in the housing market as a matter of principle, it's just a meaningless statement.

When it comes to the housing market, the only question is - which intervention do you want?

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National space standards for new builds prescribe 7.5msq and 11.5msq for new build developments now. And this will have a minimum overall area depending on the amount of bed spaces.

Why have they not referenced their own recognised standards brought out this year?

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They really have landlords in their sights now don`t they? Will be funny watching all the Rigsbys having to put the rooms back as they were and collect half the rent. Too funny.

The government has given the "smart" ones time to get rid of their tenants and sell-up. They are slowly piece-by-piece being set-up as the scapegoat for all of the housing problems in this country, not bankers or EAs or Vlad the Embezzler. Boiling frogs?

The autumn budget statement will be interesting, if he can't make all of the savings he wants through reducing WTC he might be tempted to turn the heat-up on the BTL LL.

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