libspero Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 This story has been over the BBC news most of the week about the guy who's employer was sued £7500 for homophobic gestures after a dispute over some returned items. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3295986/Locksmith-pay-7-500-worker-s-discriminatory-gestures-gay-customer-following-ten-month-dispute-refund.html Can one of our resident law students help pick this one apart? Firstly, the discrimination was because of a dispute over a returned item. Not sexually motivated. I would say that rules out sexual discrimination. If you say, sure, but his behaviour was still unacceptable, then surely because it was abuse and had sexual undertones it was sexual harassment, not sexual discrimination? I presume the other thing we take away from this is if he hadn't been gay no action would have been taken, contrary to the assertion that minority groups aren't awarded an enhanced social status? Just to prove me wrong, what charge could I bring if I had an altercation in a shop and a female member of staff blew me kisses every day there after? Would I be taken seriously and would I get £7500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I can't fault your logic there, it's harassment. If you had, say, a big nose and every time you walked past a shop the bloke inside mimed a big nose I can't see that the law would step in, even though you would likely be as upset by it as the gay man in the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherebee Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I can't fault your logic there, it's harassment. If you had, say, a big nose and every time you walked past a shop the bloke inside mimed a big nose I can't see that the law would step in, even though you would likely be as upset by it as the gay man in the case. How do you mime a big nose? I have a big nose and I don't know if people are mocking me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 How do you mime a big nose? I have a big nose and I don't know if people are mocking me... Flat hand waving like a beak beside the nose or miming pulling it out with your fingers like Pinocchio. Were you home schooled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Well he doesn't look gay to me, so he isn't! Probably did something inadvertantly gay like have the Weather Girls on his walkman, or stick amyl nitrite up his nose, diguised as an air freshener. Maybe he is overly keen on Diana Ross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Look! I don't have a big nose, but it makes a handy sundial! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Well he doesn't look gay to me, so he isn't! Probably did something inadvertantly gay like have the Weather Girls on his walkman, or stick amyl nitrite up his nose, diguised as an air freshener. Maybe he is overly keen on Diana Ross? That's the bloke who was making the gestures! It was 'interesting' to hear the description of the most offensive gesture on the radio news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Does anyone care whether people are gay any more? Society has moved on, and it isn't as funny as being ginger or Welsh. They probably just didn't get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Does anyone care whether people are gay any more? Society has moved on, and it isn't as funny as being ginger or Welsh. They probably just didn't get on. I have a real problem with nobody daring to openly express any kind of prejudice about non-Europeans whilst at the same time openly mocking gingers and Welsh as being 'fair game'. I don't mean you Mr Pin, though you have namechecked them both. People are beaten up for being ginger. And what Anne Robinson said about the Welsh on Room 101 should have seen her fined at the very least. I am neither ginger nor Welsh BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 How do you mime a big nose? I have a big nose and I don't know if people are mocking me...Generally you would use your fingertip starting from the bridge of the nose and move it up and fowards in a circular motion ending under the nose and touching the top lip just below the nostrils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I have a real problem with nobody daring to openly express any kind of prejudice about non-Europeans whilst at the same time openly mocking gingers and Welsh as being 'fair game'. I don't mean you Mr Pin, though you have namechecked them both. People are beaten up for being ginger. And what Anne Robinson said about the Welsh on Room 101 should have seen her fined at the very least. I am neither ginger nor Welsh BTW. Ha. I was talking to an Australian colleague, about not being able to tell Irish and Pakistani jokes any more. But we can still laugh at Australians for being uncouth Bogans! The "Ginger and Welsh" quote comes from the cover of an old copy of Viz, entitled "Kinnock's double tragedy". I've had more ginger girlfriends, than would be statistically possible, and of course I don't really hate the Welsh, as they are my neighbours, and I can smell the laver bread from here. It's just that so many things are off limit PC wise, the gingers and the Welsh are the only ones left, along with Australians And yes, I didn't like the continual Irish, and Pakistani jokes either. And the only Jewish jokes left, are told by Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Struck me that the judiciary were just making it up as they go along. Bit of a joke of a justice system really then? At least the BBC managed to string a few days worth of news stories out of it and matey managed to get one over on the lock company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Hovis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Struck me that the judiciary were just make it up as they go along. Bit of a joke of a justice system really then? At least the BBC managed to string a few days worth of news stories out of it and matey managed to get one over on the lock company. Yes, a joke. There was no discrimination by the company against the bloke whilst he was a customer of that company. Ergo there was no discrimination by that company against their customer. I don't remain a customer of Tesco 6 months after I shopped there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Interesting, sounds like the locksmith shop was correct to refuse a refund, but the locksmiths son who was making the gestures is obviously a complete twit, why not direct any legal action at the son rather than the business. The court seems to have mixed up 2 issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Well :( Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Why would you expect to get justice from the British legal system? It has nothing to do with justice as the layman understands it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 This story has been over the BBC news most of the week about the guy who's employer was sued £7500 for homophobic gestures after a dispute over some returned items. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3295986/Locksmith-pay-7-500-worker-s-discriminatory-gestures-gay-customer-following-ten-month-dispute-refund.html Can one of our resident law students help pick this one apart? Firstly, the discrimination was because of a dispute over a returned item. Not sexually motivated. I would say that rules out sexual discrimination. If you say, sure, but his behaviour was still unacceptable, then surely because it was abuse and had sexual undertones it was sexual harassment, not sexual discrimination? I presume the other thing we take away from this is if he hadn't been gay no action would have been taken, contrary to the assertion that minority groups aren't awarded an enhanced social status? Just to prove me wrong, what charge could I bring if I had an altercation in a shop and a female member of staff blew me kisses every day there after? Would I be taken seriously and would I get £7500? I'm not a law student, but I'll still share my opinion. I don't know about the merits of this case, but one could argue that it is discrimination in the sense that heterosexual customers do not receive similar negative repercussions after asking for and being refused a refund? And as for the amount of the fine, is £7500 all that much money? If you changed the situation slightly, say the customer was in a wheelchair and the employee repeatedly mocked him for his disability, I would feel that £7500 was no where near enough. In the hypothetical case you describe, I would think this might amount to harassment, which would be illegal according to Protection from Harassment Act. Fundamentally, the employee was being a d!ck on a repeated basis. Should people really have to put up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'm not a law student, but I'll still share my opinion. I don't know about the merits of this case, but one could argue that it is discrimination in the sense that heterosexual customers do not receive similar negative repercussions after asking for and being refused a refund? And as for the amount of the fine, is £7500 all that much money? If you changed the situation slightly, say the customer was in a wheelchair and the employee repeatedly mocked him for his disability, I would feel that £7500 was no where near enough. In the hypothetical case you describe, I would think this might amount to harassment, which would be illegal according to Protection from Harassment Act. Fundamentally, the employee was being a d!ck on a repeated basis. Should people really have to put up with that? The general consensus then is that there would be one law for one person and another (in this case) for me. I guess I like the old fashioned idea that we just have the same laws for everybody regardless of race, colour etc etc. At least we all agree that the guy was being a ***** (although we don't know how much of a ***** the other guy is/was being as well). The only disagreement is that if it happened to anyone else it either wouldn't matter or should be treated differently. I can't agree with you on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 If you had, say, a big nose and every time you walked past a shop the bloke inside mimed a big nose I can't see that the law would step in, even though you would likely be as upset by it as the gay man in the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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