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Patfig

The Working Poor

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I wonder if anyone feels the same, but this phrase seems to have been bandied around quite a lot in the last couple of weeks.

I hate this phrase " the working poor" it is not good. I think people earning say 30 to 40K per annum probably are in the "working poor" definition and its all because HOUSE PRICES ARE TOO HIGH.

ERIC WTF ARE YOU

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Welcome back Pat.

I think we're talking people on well sub £20k per year, living in a rubbish flat because of stupid rents, and dependent upon working tax credits.

And this is what we expect the unemployed to have as their aspiration.

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Hi Frank

I think people on way over 20K are also working poor

I have been quiet for a while but in the last month or so I have really started to detest this current government, Osbourne especially.

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I used the phrase as my username after watching a documentary on workers in Japan so impoverished by high rental prices that they were living in a tiny box room and spent their meagre food budget on making a batch of rice balls to last the working week. They had full time jobs working long hours.

I saw it as the future for the UK and it is proving to be true.

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'Hard working families' - Gordon's meme that the Tories have now appropriated.

Why not 'hard working people'? Or do people who have no family not count?

Perhaps they mean that all the family works. They aren't interested in you unless your 5-year-olds go down the pit or something.

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"hardworking" is a term that is actually offensive

http://dailycaller.com/2015/10/26/msnbc-host-when-republicans-say-the-phrase-hard-worker-theyre-being-racist-video/

Today I here, the word "too" is often offensive and should be avoided.

The PC Police are ready to control our speech.

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What's this sh#t about hard working? Surely in a productive economy being smart and efficient is better? Hard working is just being a serf. Boomers didn't work hard for their million pound mansions, so why does the govt say they did?

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I thank HPC for giving me a great conversation with a co worker this week.

Him: "too many unemployed layabouts getting freebies off me as a taxpayer."

Me: "Yes, loads, but I am confused - don't we alway talk about improvements in productivity as a goal?"

him : "Yes, that's a good thing. We have to keep driving productivity as a country."

Me: "But doesn't that mean logically we need less people to do the same work? Doesn't that mean we should be aiming for a end goal where less people have to work but we all get the same 'stuff' as basics? Maybe some sort of state income?"

Him "Brain explodes"

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I thank HPC for giving me a great conversation with a co worker this week.

Him: "too many unemployed layabouts getting freebies off me as a taxpayer."

Me: "Yes, loads, but I am confused - don't we alway talk about improvements in productivity as a goal?"

him : "Yes, that's a good thing. We have to keep driving productivity as a country."

Me: "But doesn't that mean logically we need less people to do the same work? Doesn't that mean we should be aiming for a end goal where less people have to work but we all get the same 'stuff' as basics? Maybe some sort of state income?"

Him "Brain explodes"

C'on Jezza, you know it makes sense :D

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I tried that on a working poor person a year or so ago. She thought I was mad. Who would Clean the toilets?

You clearly don't read the right web forums. Whenever I bring that up, some lefty always tells me that people will do it because they really, really love cleaning toilets.

You see, in lefty-world, people don't need to be paid to work, they'll just do it anyway.

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You clearly don't read the right web forums. Whenever I bring that up, some lefty always tells me that people will do it because they really, really love cleaning toilets.

You see, in lefty-world, people don't need to be paid to work, they'll just do it anyway.

I did cleaning toilets and kiichens overnight in London many years ago! I was actually well paid for it! The team leader bloke was fantastic, and had a great sense of humour! One of the blokes didn't like me because I was a student. I pointed out that he could be one too! :blink:

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IMO the flaw in the state income argument, much as I would have loved it in my twenties, is that there are always going to be more jobs - of a type.

As HPI has forced so many women out to work it has created lots of child care jobs.

Now zero hours contracts mean that supermarkets can employ many more workers, on much less per week, than they used to.

And think about what you'd get somebody to do if it was cheap enough: gardening, personal trainer, redecorating.

If you're single how about somebody to be your bag carrier when you're on holiday, and how about a house-sitter to look after the place.

Maybe a dog walker, how about a cook for big meals, somebody to do your laundry, change your beds.

It goes on. Now a lot of these jobs already exist but they tend to be for rich people, but increase the earnings gap between permanent jobs and these service jobs and anybody on a decent salary could afford them.

The number of jobs that can be created is elastic.

Maybe you could employ somebody to post on forums for you.

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IMO the flaw in the state income argument, much as I would have loved it in my twenties, is that there are always going to be more jobs - of a type.

As HPI has forced so many women out to work it has created lots of child care jobs.

Now zero hours contracts mean that supermarkets can employ many more workers, on much less per week, than they used to.

And think about what you'd get somebody to do if it was cheap enough: gardening, personal trainer, redecorating.

If you're single how about somebody to be your bag carrier when you're on holiday, and how about a house-sitter to look after the place.

Maybe a dog walker, how about a cook for big meals, somebody to do your laundry, change your beds.

It goes on. Now a lot of these jobs already exist but they tend to be for rich people, but increase the earnings gap between permanent jobs and these service jobs and anybody on a decent salary could afford them.

The number of jobs that can be created is elastic.

Maybe you could employ somebody to post on forums for you.

I could be good at that! :blink:

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You clearly don't read the right web forums. Whenever I bring that up, some lefty always tells me that people will do it because they really, really love cleaning toilets.

You see, in lefty-world, people don't need to be paid to work, they'll just do it anyway.

Perhaps we'd simply have more self-cleaning toilets? Or pay extra for jobs that no-one wants to do in a post-compulsory work world?

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IMO the flaw in the state income argument, much as I would have loved it in my twenties, is that there are always going to be more jobs - of a type.

As HPI has forced so many women out to work it has created lots of child care jobs.

Now zero hours contracts mean that supermarkets can employ many more workers, on much less per week, than they used to.

And think about what you'd get somebody to do if it was cheap enough: gardening, personal trainer, redecorating.

If you're single how about somebody to be your bag carrier when you're on holiday, and how about a house-sitter to look after the place.

Maybe a dog walker, how about a cook for big meals, somebody to do your laundry, change your beds.

It goes on. Now a lot of these jobs already exist but they tend to be for rich people, but increase the earnings gap between permanent jobs and these service jobs and anybody on a decent salary could afford them.

The number of jobs that can be created is elastic.

Maybe you could employ somebody to post on forums for you.

Aye, but I am coming round to the idea that the state should provide the basics of life for free - a roof, a TV (basic channels), internet (dial up), fresh fruit, veg and meat, basic healthcare. Anything above that could be bought by this thing we call 'earned money'

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I tried that on a working poor person a year or so ago. She thought I was mad. Who would Clean the toilets?

Hard working poor clean their own toilets......they work damned hard.....often with very little pay or recognition sometimes with no pay at all.....shit life. ;)

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I think we're talking people on well sub £20k per year, living in a rubbish flat because of stupid rents, and dependent upon working tax credits.

And this is what we expect the unemployed to have as their aspiration.

I think that nails it really. What's the point of busting a gut if the best likely result is no real improvement in your situation. If, by working hard, it's clear that you can go from, say, a house share to a reasonable place of your own and some dignity then that's quite an incentive. Otherwise, it's hard to see the motivation.

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Aye, but I am coming round to the idea that the state should provide the basics of life for free - a roof, a TV (basic channels), internet (dial up), fresh fruit, veg and meat, basic healthcare. Anything above that could be bought by this thing we call 'earned money'

The basics should be a bed in a shared dormitory, food (basic not meat) and basic healthcare (Are you thinking of free eye tests, dentists and scripts for all as well as free hospital care?)

And if you want better than that then you can work.

Why should TV and internet be given to everyone free? Not everyone wants them.

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Aye, but I am coming round to the idea that the state should provide the basics of life for free - a roof, a TV (basic channels), internet (dial up), fresh fruit, veg and meat, basic healthcare. Anything above that could be bought by this thing we call 'earned money'

I see a gaping problem with this though.

Clever people have a huge capacity for pursuing intellectual interests. If this had been available to me at 21 (or to pretty much anybody on this forum I'd have thought) then we would not even have considered working; leaving that to the people who wish to consume shiny things.

The brightest people opting out of work would be a disaster for the economy.

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Perhaps we'd simply have more self-cleaning toilets? Or pay extra for jobs that no-one wants to do in a post-compulsory work world?

It's a possibility.

More likely, they just wouldn't get cleaned, since no-one is willing to pay more than a trivial amount for it.

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I see a gaping problem with this though.

Clever people have a huge capacity for pursuing intellectual interests. If this had been available to me at 21 (or to pretty much anybody on this forum I'd have thought) then we would not even have considered working; leaving that to the people who wish to consume shiny things.

The brightest people opting out of work would be a disaster for the economy.

Not necessarily. Consider what might have been gained had you been left to pursue your interests without the distraction of work. Perhaps society might have got more out of that in the long run than we would've lost from your workplace contributions.

Darwin was effectively a rich boy persuing intellectual interest, as were many other leading scientists of the era.

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Why don't we get a big building in every town and city.

Put Male and Female dormitories in each with separate facilities for the children.

We could then provide all the feckless wasters with work.

We could call it 'The Work House'

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