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CunningPlan

Benefits - What Would You Get?

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Hopefully this isn't duplicating the other thread but I think most of the ire in the media is looking too much at what you lose and not what you get.

I just entered my details into www.turn2us.org.uk/ but changed my income.

To surmise, myself and wife both working a 40 hour week running a nail bar and dog walking business so making a reasonable £10k profit each.

2 kids (boys), rented property.

It seems I would be entitled to £25,500 in benefits on top of our £20k profits. All tax free.

So that is £45,500 per year to live on. Tax free. We would need a salary of £29,000 each to achieve that.

Surely I have made a mistake somewhere?

Anyone else want to post their own stupid numbers?

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Hopefully this isn't duplicating the other thread but I think most of the ire in the media is looking too much at what you lose and not what you get.

I just entered my details into www.turn2us.org.uk/ but changed my income.

To surmise, myself and wife both working a 40 hour week running a nail bar and dog walking business so making a reasonable £10k profit each.

2 kids (boys), rented property.

It seems I would be entitled to £25,500 in benefits on top of our £20k profits. All tax free.

So that is £45,500 per year to live on. Tax free. We would need a salary of £29,000 each to achieve that.

Surely I have made a mistake somewhere?

Anyone else want to post their own stupid numbers?

You're working too long.

You only need to work 16h each.

Technically, you do not need to even do that. Just say you do.

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You can't get anything if you have savings over £6k or £16k. You need to go and spend it all on large tvs, iPads, nike trainers, alcohol and cigarettes.

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No that is way out.

£2351 + child benefit

try this calculator:

http://taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

I would like to think I am wrong but it is showing:

Working tax credits : £8k

Child tax credits £6k

Housing Benefit £8k

Child Benefit £2k

If I had any savings I would use them as a deposit on a break even BTL and amass a nice little capital gain for my retirement :)

I am not claiming because we work a lot more than 50 hours per week but we make much more than £10k pa. each. However, the free time from working less and claiming more is very tempting.

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I submitted the theoretical situation of:

Single, no kids, self-employed 16 hours/week, earn the personal allowance every year from the business.

Apparently I would get £25/week housing benefit, and nothing else. That's not enough to rent anywhere, and would go straight to the landlord in any case.

Like I said on the other thread, no-one is going to pay me £400/week to run a hobby business. If you don't meet the criteria you're a second class citizen. The whole thing is a joke.

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I too have created an imaginary £10k a year self employed job, Mrs (as in real life) has chronic illness and claims ESA with 2 imaginary teenage boys.

We could get £6962.80 working tax credit, £6111.04 Child tax credit, £6409 housing benefit, £1047, Council Tax support and £1788 HB. This on top of my £10k and Mrs £5616.

That means we would have 37935 disposable income each year.

To maintain this same income in the world of gainful employment the hobbyist self employed person would have to earn £43,104.

State largesse.

Edit to add: My 16 hour week earns (£10k plus benefits) a total of £32319pa. On this basis my tax exempt hourly rate is £38.84.

Edited by Caveat Mortgagor

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I would like to think I am wrong but it is showing:

Working tax credits : £8k

Child tax credits £6k

Housing Benefit £8k

Child Benefit £2k

If I had any savings I would use them as a deposit on a break even BTL and amass a nice little capital gain for my retirement :)

I am not claiming because we work a lot more than 50 hours per week but we make much more than £10k pa. each. However, the free time from working less and claiming more is very tempting.

And include the money you earned.

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I submitted the theoretical situation of:

Single, no kids, self-employed 16 hours/week, earn the personal allowance every year from the business.

Apparently I would get £25/week housing benefit, and nothing else. That's not enough to rent anywhere, and would go straight to the landlord in any case.

Like I said on the other thread, no-one is going to pay me £400/week to run a hobby business. If you don't meet the criteria you're a second class citizen. The whole thing is a joke.

It is.

Its also a joke when the Tax credits end.

I've seen single paretns go from @500/week cash to 60/week JSA when their kid leaves college.

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To surmise, myself and wife both working a 40 hour week running a nail bar and dog walking business so making a reasonable £10k profit each.

I'd combine the businesses and charge a premium for doing the dogs nails ...

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I submitted the theoretical situation of:

Single, no kids, self-employed 16 hours/week, earn the personal allowance every year from the business.

Apparently I would get £25/week housing benefit, and nothing else. That's not enough to rent anywhere, and would go straight to the landlord in any case.

Like I said on the other thread, no-one is going to pay me £400/week to run a hobby business. If you don't meet the criteria you're a second class citizen. The whole thing is a joke.

I agree and have said so in another thread. The disparity between those with the right criteria and a 55 year old single person is astonishing. I would be very happy to see the Government switch some of the money from the former to the latter - especially if it was contribution based.

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Does anyone know how payments in a pension affect entitlement to benefits. For example if you are earning £50k and you put £40k into a pension does the benefits system calculate entitlement on £50k or £10k?

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I would like to think I am wrong but it is showing:

Working tax credits : £8k

Child tax credits £6k

Housing Benefit £8k

Child Benefit £2k

If I had any savings I would use them as a deposit on a break even BTL and amass a nice little capital gain for my retirement :)

I am not claiming because we work a lot more than 50 hours per week but we make much more than £10k pa. each. However, the free time from working less and claiming more is very tempting.

Yes sorry I must be wrong, checking these tables: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/tax-credits-entitlement-tables

Holy shit. I did not realise the sums involved. No wonder our neighbours are laughing. One working part time as a care worker, three kids. Feckers. They have two cars. Wondered how they did it.

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Hopefully this isn't duplicating the other thread but I think most of the ire in the media is looking too much at what you lose and not what you get.

I just entered my details into www.turn2us.org.uk/ but changed my income.

To surmise, myself and wife both working a 40 hour week running a nail bar and dog walking business so making a reasonable £10k profit each.

2 kids (boys), rented property.

It seems I would be entitled to £25,500 in benefits on top of our £20k profits. All tax free.

So that is £45,500 per year to live on. Tax free. We would need a salary of £29,000 each to achieve that.

Surely I have made a mistake somewhere?

Anyone else want to post their own stupid numbers?

Just put in the same figures as you on the same website and got a grand total of £168 a week.

Of which £102 is child tax credit and £31 is Housing Benefit and £34 is Child Benefit.

In my case I put housing costs of £800 a month and LA rate of £650 with no child care costs (my theoretical teenage kids don't need paid child care), made £10k each this year and last year in profit.

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Just put in the same figures as you on the same website and got a grand total of £168 a week.

Of which £102 is child tax credit and £31 is Housing Benefit and £34 is Child Benefit.

In my case I put housing costs of £800 a month and LA rate of £650 with no child care costs (my theoretical teenage kids don't need paid child care), made £10k each this year and last year in profit.

Your just not gaming the system enough - why would you want to look after your own brats when the Gov't will pay someone else to do it? And you really must use your full housing allowance - LL's depend on it I(and that will be the floor for a decent place to live anyway)

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Your just not gaming the system enough - why would you want to look after your own brats when the Gov't will pay someone else to do it? And you really must use your full housing allowance - LL's depend on it I(and that will be the floor for a decent place to live anyway)

That is what I don't understand. The government would rather pay out huge sums either in child benefit (Labour) or for universal child care (Tories) for people to look after each others children.

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You can't get anything if you have savings over £6k or £16k. You need to go and spend it all on large tvs, iPads, nike trainers, alcohol and cigarettes.

I don't think there is a capital limit for tax credits all the others like HB the £6-16k applies

Edited by workingpoor

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Yes sorry I must be wrong, checking these tables: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/tax-credits-entitlement-tables

Holy shit. I did not realise the sums involved. No wonder our neighbours are laughing. One working part time as a care worker, three kids. Feckers. They have two cars. Wondered how they did it.

And all boosting GDP, are the cars on "rental" agreements? Untangling this mess is going to probably going to unleash a depression amongst the low paid who've used the system to their benefit. For those that have in some respects I don't blame them they've sought out the maximum advantage they can, which ultimately is what the free market demands.

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I always knew you could get these ridiculous sums, but not going that route on the basis that one day it could all stop.

The house of Lords has just shown that it won't ever stop.

Sigh.

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Does anyone know how payments in a pension affect entitlement to benefits. For example if you are earning £50k and you put £40k into a pension does the benefits system calculate entitlement on £50k or £10k?

Also, what would happen if I owned a Limited company and just paid myself minimum wage and left the balance in the business?

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Also, what would happen if I owned a Limited company and just paid myself minimum wage and left the balance in the business?

There are definitely issues now with Ltd companies as you now have to pay much more tax on dividends. But you can also only take out a certain amount of your profits when you close a company without paying lots of tax. There used to be entrepreneurs relief which allowed you to pay only 10% CGT but I think they have tightened up the rules because a lot of people were doing just that. Imagine you have a Ltd company and you take minimum wage salary (just enough to get your NI stamp) and then you either pay yourself small dividends or you claim loads of benefits. After 10 years you have a lot of profits built up in the company. If you want to extract those profits you have to find a way of doing it which will allow you to pay minimum tax. There might also be issues with the benefits you have claimed as this may be seen as "deprivation of capital" as far as I understand.

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