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CyberNat

The Triumph Of Evel

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"The Tories ended the union today - not the SNP and not the people of Scotland."


"Angry Nationalists accused the Tories of doing more damage to the union in three and a half hours then they had managed in decades."


"Today has been a dark, dark day for Scottish members of parliament at Westminster. We have been consigned to second class status, with just one opportunity to cast a vote."




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"The Tories ended the union today - not the SNP and not the people of Scotland."
"Angry Nationalists accused the Tories of doing more damage to the union in three and a half hours then they had managed in decades."
"Today has been a dark, dark day for Scottish members of parliament at Westminster. We have been consigned to second class status, with just one opportunity to cast a vote."

It's a bit hypocritical of the SNP to be lambasting an action that will encourage their final objective :lol:

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I don't get the bit about how a non English MP can't be PM anymore. That seems to be a bit of a leap beyond the actual facts.

Absolutely. I thought there was a BRITISH Parliament at Westminster.

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It's a bit hypocritical of the SNP to be lambasting an action that will encourage their final objective :lol:

Perhaps but they have got to milk this for all it is worth!

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I don't get the bit about how a non English MP can't be PM anymore. That seems to be a bit of a leap beyond the actual facts.

This is why:

Here is an interesting scenario I found on Reddit:
To add to what everyone else has said, I'd add that any attempt to restrict the power of some MPs messes up the whole system.
The system works because all MPs are equal. Once you mess with that it falls apart. It's already hard to see how a Scottish MP coming in now could ever attain high office like PM.
Imagine a Scottish MP in the future wanting to rise to leadership getting interviewed...
Q. What's your track record on Education?
A. I've never voted on that. I'm not a member of the Scottish Parliament and am not allowed to vote in England.
Q. Ok. What about Health?
A. Again. Never voted. Devolved matter.
Q. Law and Order?
A. Errrm
...You can see the problem. You really need to keep all MPs equal and have a different place to do English stuff like an English parliament.

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Aye, and here's his Triumph...

;)

XYY

Can't be a real one! It's not pissing oil! :blink:

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Funny how the SNP have always done the decent thing in the past by not voting on English issues but now, all of a sudden, seem to think they should be allowed to. No inconsistency there, no, not at all.

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Blair screwed up the constitution. The SNP - unlike Labour - didn't abuse the extra powers this gave them: good so far. But neither did they speak out against the idiocy.

The latest non-fix is a classic case of two wrongs failing miserably to make a right. The SNP are perfectly justified in complaining loudly, though it's also a little rich coming from a party that's been silent so long on injustices that were entirely in their favour.

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I thought the others couldnt vote on things affecting England Only?

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I think this is actually more destructive to the idea of the UK than a separate English Parliament. Having a UK wide chamber but only allowing English MPs to vote on certain legislation means that the Westminster Parliament has decided facto become a national assembly for the UK and an English assembly. This is going to be a gift for the SNP who want Scots to see the UK Parliament as an English Parliament. Cameron is essentially gerrymandering the constitution so he can get his legislative program through. I think this is going to cause the Union to unwind quite quickly in the next 5 years. I also think the process for determining what is an English only bill is likely to be abused. It would have been far healthier to have had a proper constitutional convention to sort this mess out.

To be honest I blame Labour more than the Tories for this situation because it is largely they who have encouraged national devolution for Scotland, Wales and Ireland while at the same time wilfully opposing it for England. Ironically the consequence is that have come to be derided as a Westminster party by most Scots while at the same time not being trusted by many in England who feel they are far too willing to do the SNPs bidding.

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One Empire. One Folk. One leader! :unsure:

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Funny how the SNP have always done the decent thing in the past by not voting on English issues but now, all of a sudden, seem to think they should be allowed to. No inconsistency there, no, not at all.

I'm not sure that the SNP do think that. Shouty people on the internet, yes; but "the SNP" as a whole ...?

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It's lucky they seem to be always Scottish these days: Blair, Brown, Cameron. Osborne is an Irish baronet.

Blair and Cameron don't trumpet their Scottishness for obvious, political, reasons.

Blair and Cameron are clan names. Blair was born in Scotland and went to a posh school in Edinburgh yet because he feigns Englishness most people don't know.

I too am a Scot but anyone meeting me would think I am English.

I wear a sporran inside my Y-fronts so that if I am ever captured, I will still technically be in uniform and not be shot as a spy.

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Fair enough, but that's not the same as "thinking they should be allowed to vote on English issues", which was the point I was replying to. I suppose my response didn't address that, though.

Oh sure, it's just politicking of course. I have no idea what most of them actually think, they're just using the whole thing as a chance to whine loudly in the hope of stirring up some English resentment. A large part of their strategy is to annoy the English to the extent that giving them another referendum (and then another and another as needed) is seen as a good policy by people south of the border. For my part, the right policy would be to give the rest of the UK a vote on whether Scotland should be allowed to stay in the Union. I would vote to kick them out in a heartbeat so, I guess, their strategy is working pretty well!

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Not sure "Independance" for Scotland would achieve much in reality, but I don't live there any more, so I can't vote on it. I think the real problem is not enough regional autonomy for various regions of the UK. Decisions and laws made in Westminster really only are suitable for people living inside the M25 doughnut! Everywhere else doesn't matter. :blink: I lived in Scotland for three years, and I didn't get any abuse for being English, but the Government did! :blink:

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I would force Scots to wear skirts just in case. In fact a rule enforcing all nationalities adopt their national dress just so we know exactly what's what. Any mixed blood and you have to wear the appropriate national dress on alternating days.

Edit: Blimey, some days I'd have to dress up like Andy Pandy.....

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2e/c3/dd/2ec3dd481ffb65ef50f6ede63a7b2124.jpg

The English national dress is the business suit, which despite being horribly uncomfortable and insanely impractical is so ubiquitous that people would consider it a let off.

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