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Frank Hovis

Transgender - How Many People?

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There seem to be so many why don't we all just swap clothes, it would be a lot easier? And I have heard of people who've swapped back as well.

Australian-born academic and writer Germaine Greer has said that in her opinion, transgender women are "not women".

She also claims that "a great many women" who are not transgender think transgender women - who she refers to as "male to female transgender people" - do not "look like, sound like or behave like women".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34625512

I fully understand that for some people there is a mismatch between mind and body but I cannot believe that this alone accounts for the frequency with which it happens. It's got to be more about depression, dissatisfaction, stress, breakdown and the grass always being greener. It came up on here before with the David Shayler (ex MI5) case that there was a lot of this happening as fallout from these really high stress jobs like spies because becoming a woman was seen as a safe place to retreat to.

It doesn't help that most transgenders, including the one I know, are as convincing as the Two Ronnies in drag.

The best comment on this I have seen is in the film Withnail & I where Marwood (I) is reading a paper in a cafe about a transgender whose dream was to become a woman as some sort of fabled goal. Then he glances across to a real woman eating an egg sandwich whose life is no different to any of the men in there. It's illusion and delusion.

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I've met three men that decided to be women. One made a much better woman than the other two. I used to work with one. I checked the feet, and they were quite plausible. Only later did I find out she used to be a bloke.

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I've met three men that decided to be women. One made a much better woman than the other two. I used to work with one. I checked the feet, and they were quite plausible. Only later did I find out she used to be a bloke.

Why did they though? I can understand envy of the beautiful woman who becomes a model, who gets rich without really working. Now that's an easy and charmed life but most women are also envious of that. You don't get a lifetime of free drinks, meals, clothes, shoes and handbags just through being a woman.

But that's the one they emulate, it not crossing their mind that 95% of women do not wear fancy dresses and shoes to go to work every day.

What I'm getting to is that they do not want to be real women, because real women have no better (or worse) a life than men. They want to be an idealised princess of a woman. It's fantasy.

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It's just another 'group' for the Social Justice Warriors to latch on to, which is probably why you hear a lot about such folk in the media compared to how many affected people there actually are. It's funny how these Social Justice Warriors never seem to blog or protest too much about lonely old people who can't pay their heating bills - perhaps these people are too boring a cause.

I have a psychologist friend who tells me that apparently happiness levels in general don't get any better after all the surgery and hormones, so I hope that the fact that it's 'fashionable' these days doesn't lead to more doctors cropping up to perform the surgery on people who are simply mentally ill and need to talk to the right people i.e. I hope the same barriers are kept in place and that surgery doesn't become easier to access.

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a transgender has there own gender catagory.

they are not what they seem, they have had a reversal.

They are rare.

although, you would think 1 in 3 was the reality.

But, when you meet one, boy is he/she memorable...

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What I'm getting to is that they do not want to be real women, because real women have no better (or worse) a life than men. They want to be an idealised princess of a woman. It's fantasy.

The only transgender person I've ever known, who I knew before and after the surgery, did indeed turn into a (wholly unconvincing) caricature of a woman, wearing those little buckled shoes that you see primary school girls wearing and going on about how much she loved shopping and trying to sit in the most 'feminine' way possible. It was pretty much a real life version of David Walliams doing the whole "I'm a laaaaaaaaaaaady" thing.

Whereas the real women around her just got on like real people, and not like cartoon women.

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Not sure if this is the same thing but that storyline on Eastenders last few days ticked me pink...

I don't watch it usually I am sat at my desk surfing the net but her indoors has it on. Les the undertaker as Christine was absolute class. The way the bloke carried it off he should get a BAFTA.....

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Why did they though? I can understand envy of the beautiful woman who becomes a model, who gets rich without really working. Now that's an easy and charmed life but most women are also envious of that. You don't get a lifetime of free drinks, meals, clothes, shoes and handbags just through being a woman.

But that's the one they emulate, it not crossing their mind that 95% of women do not wear fancy dresses and shoes to go to work every day.

What I'm getting to is that they do not want to be real women, because real women have no better (or worse) a life than men. They want to be an idealised princess of a woman. It's fantasy.

***** envy used to be the name for women wanting to be men...sometimes, I think the old ways were the right ways...pandering to peoples everywhim in the name of Diversity just complicates everyones life..

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I have no idea why a bloke would want to be a woman. If I had been born a woman I probably wouldn't want to be a bloke. I would probably still play guitar though.

People do all sorts of plastic surgery, and I don't understand it, unless you have an abnormal deformity. Sure you can get your teeth straightened, or jug handle ears pinned back, and I understand that!

But I've known one woman have her breasts reduced, which weren't that big really, but she thought she had to do it.

Another one I knew, had plastic tits put in, and they all went horribly wrong, and had to have the implants taken out again. Daft really as she looked like an angel to begin with. :blink:

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I have no idea why a bloke would want to be a woman. If I had been born a woman I probably wouldn't want to be a bloke. I would probably still play guitar though.

People do all sorts of plastic surgery, and I don't understand it, unless you have an abnormal deformity. Sure you can get your teeth straightened, or jug handle ears pinned back, and I understand that!

But I've known one woman have her breasts reduced, which weren't that big really, but she thought she had to do it.

Another one I knew, had plastic tits put in, and they all went horribly wrong, and had to have the implants taken out again. Daft really as she looked like an angel to begin with. :blink:

Most of us have no idea because we don't want to change! The ones that entirely convince me are those who come out with the childhood stories of automatically playing with their sisters / brothers toys rather than their own. In their head they are one sex and then they have their parents telling them they're the other which doesn't make sense.

If I was a woman with really big breasts I'd have them reduced as they must be a right pain when you're trying to run, play sport, do the gardening etc. I don't actually find big ones attractive either, they catch my eye but that's not the same thing.

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I've known several men to women. none of them have had the op as you have to pass psych evaluations to get it on the NHS.
One was 6ft6 red hair and had picked the most insane name ever. And had goofy teeth like something out of a beezer comic.

Apparently the son of someone I know has gone to American to live as a woman and has married a girl who is a man now.

If it's so much more prevalent than any previous time in history (And is it?) then is it something due to hormones in water supplies?

There's been so much on TV about TG at the moment it's quite overwhelming and any alien coming to our planet might think that it really is 1 in 3 people.

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If I was a woman with really big breasts I'd have them reduced as they must be a right pain when you're trying to run, play sport, do the gardening etc. I don't actually find big ones attractive either, they catch my eye but that's not the same thing.

Some girls are very confident with large tits. Others wish they would go away. I got drunk with one of my friend's sisters, then she played the piano for me, a bit of Mozart. She was good, but I didn't think she could see the keyboard past her tits, which I mentioned. "That's why I've sold the accordian" ahe said. She was very happy and confident with her body, but some people aren't. :blink:

Not sure I could improve my body by surgery? I think it would take a lot more than that!

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Why cant we just invent a new gender?

We all know that (XY chromosome and all...yes, I know there are a few people who do not conform to the XY/XX combination, but the majority of transgenders are not in that category) they are not women, but they dont want to be seen as men. Call them the third gender or something. Tri-men, that will do. Trimen sounds a bit like women if you say it quick enough.

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I've known several men to women. none of them have had the op as you have to pass psych evaluations to get it on the NHS.

One was 6ft6 red hair and had picked the most insane name ever. And had goofy teeth like something out of a beezer comic.

Apparently the son of someone I know has gone to American to live as a woman and has married a girl who is a man now.

If it's so much more prevalent than any previous time in history (And is it?) then is it something due to hormones in water supplies?

There's been so much on TV about TG at the moment it's quite overwhelming and any alien coming to our planet might think that it really is 1 in 3 people.

Give me her number! :blink: I'll bet Mr CCC would!

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Why cant we just invent a new gender?

We all know that (XY chromosome and all...yes, I know there are a few people who do not conform to the XY/XX combination, but the majority of transgenders are not in that category) they are not women, but they dont want to be seen as men. Call them the third gender or something. Tri-men, that will do. Trimen sounds a bit like women if you say it quick enough.

What about XYY men? All speaking Geordie ;-)

Are there really people who want to be neither gender? I can think of Dr Crow in Carry on Spying but that's it.

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If it's so much more prevalent than any previous time in history (And is it?) then is it something due to hormones in water supplies?

There's been so much on TV about TG at the moment it's quite overwhelming and any alien coming to our planet might think that it really is 1 in 3 people.

I go with the extremes to which feminism / gender equality has gone.

The clear roles which each sex / gender had, which weren't by any means perfect, have been undermined but not replaced with anything else.

So some people are confused because there is no longer any clear assumption of what it means to be a man or woman any more. We do what we like.

So those most lacking in direction seek to join a group - the other sex - where they think the role they play will be more clearly defined.

Then they find it isn't, hence some switching back.

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off the web, the font of all things clever and stupid:

The following are the 58 gender options identified by ABC News:

  • Agender
  • Androgyne
  • Androgynous
  • Bigender
  • Cis
  • Cisgender
  • Cis Female
  • Cis Male
  • Cis Man
  • Cis Woman
  • Cisgender Female
  • Cisgender Male
  • Cisgender Man
  • Cisgender Woman
  • Female to Male
  • FTM
  • Gender Fluid
  • Gender Nonconforming
  • Gender Questioning
  • Gender Variant
  • Genderqueer
  • Intersex
  • Male to Female
  • MTF
  • Neither
  • Neutrois
  • Non-binary
  • Other
  • Pangender
  • Trans
  • Trans*
  • Trans Female
  • Trans* Female
  • Trans Male
  • Trans* Male
  • Trans Man
  • Trans* Man
  • Trans Person
  • Trans* Person
  • Trans Woman
  • Trans* Woman
  • Transfeminine
  • Transgender
  • Transgender Female
  • Transgender Male
  • Transgender Man
  • Transgender Person
  • Transgender Woman
  • Transmasculine
  • Transsexual
  • Transsexual Female
  • Transsexual Male
  • Transsexual Man
  • Transsexual Person
  • Transsexual Woman
  • Two-Spirit

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It's all a bit of a spectrum. The best women have a little bit of maleness in them, makes them practical and sparky. Most men have have a little bit of a femine side, even hard bikers. Makes them kind.

Not sure many of us want to "change sides"! You are what you have got. :blink:

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I go with the extremes to which feminism / gender equality has gone.

The clear roles which each sex / gender had, which weren't by any means perfect, have been undermined but not replaced with anything else.

So some people are confused because there is no longer any clear assumption of what it means to be a man or woman any more. We do what we like.

So those most lacking in direction seek to join a group - the other sex - where they think the role they play will be more clearly defined.

Then they find it isn't, hence some switching back.

This is surely what strap-ons were invented for.

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This is surely what strap-ons were invented for.

Don't you find the straps a bit fiddly? :blink:

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off the web, the font of all things clever and stupid:

The following are the 58 gender options identified by ABC News:

  • Agender
  • Androgyne
  • Androgynous
  • Bigender
  • Cis
  • Cisgender
  • Cis Female
  • Cis Male
  • Cis Man
  • Cis Woman
  • Cisgender Female
  • Cisgender Male
  • Cisgender Man
  • Cisgender Woman
  • Female to Male
  • FTM
  • Gender Fluid
  • Gender Nonconforming
  • Gender Questioning
  • Gender Variant
  • Genderqueer
  • Intersex
  • Male to Female
  • MTF
  • Neither
  • Neutrois
  • Non-binary
  • Other
  • Pangender
  • Trans
  • Trans*
  • Trans Female
  • Trans* Female
  • Trans Male
  • Trans* Male
  • Trans Man
  • Trans* Man
  • Trans Person
  • Trans* Person
  • Trans Woman
  • Trans* Woman
  • Transfeminine
  • Transgender
  • Transgender Female
  • Transgender Male
  • Transgender Man
  • Transgender Person
  • Transgender Woman
  • Transmasculine
  • Transsexual
  • Transsexual Female
  • Transsexual Male
  • Transsexual Man
  • Transsexual Person
  • Transsexual Woman
  • Two-Spirit

They missed off Poof!

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There is some evidence that stress plays a big part in this. Lots of the men who seem to deem themselves MTF, in the West anyhow, tend to be above average intellect often with very demanding or high-powered jobs.

Such men tend to have 'fragrant wives' at home and, in times of extreme stress that builds up over years, the men could be subconciously evaluating their own stressful lives with the seemingly carefree existence of coffee mornings and angsting over whether the kitchen or sofa needs replacing that their spouses live. Something in the mind of the men then snaps and the men start to reason that their lives would be infinitely better if they led the life of a woman, such as their wife, who appears to have a life of loveliness, joy and is stress free almost to the point of being idyllic.

This, of course, runs into a wall when many of the MTF transgendered people claim to have felt that they were born in the wrong body since they were a young child.

Bruce Jenner is an interesting case. He, or she, now claims to have always felt that he was a she since she was a little boy.

However, re the above, you do have to wonder how much the stress of being all the American hero weighed on his mental well-being over 30 or 40 years since winning all those gold medals? At the same time having a wife, and then daughters, who seemingly live a lifestyle of no stress, no worries about money and simply being desired and lusted after for the clothes, or lack of clothes, that they wear might be very appealling for a man who is, perhaps, under enormous stress and pressure to present himself as the perfect all-American male hero?

I do wonder just how envious Ms. Jenner has been, perhaps for decades, of his wife and, lately, of his daughter and step-daughters.

It is an interesting thought for discussion.

I will leave this post with this little known fact - apparently one of the biggest studies into why men wish to undergo sex-change operations was funded by no less than the US Air Force. They apparently discovered that they had an above average percentage of their pilots / aircrew seeking medical funding for sex-change operations.

Whether this is true or not I am not sure but, if so, then it certainly does make you stop and think about the above stress factor as being perhaps a real cause as to why so many high-powered men wish to 'become' women - after all, being a military pilot is one of the most stressful jobs on the planet and virtually all pilots have had a 'fragrant' wife or gf at some point in their lives.

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I think believe that the US military has a lot of bronies too. Make of that what you will.

I suspect it is some sort of escapist reaction to being in unimaginably stressful and brutally violent situations.

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What a weird thought Mr TMT. All those pilots becoming women?

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