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Pensioners Earn More Than Workers By £11 A Week

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The Guardian on the triple lock thing today.

A system that makes sure that pensioners always get the best increase over everybody else will eventually take the entire county's product by the laws of compounding. Being a bit facetious but little hikes ontop of little hikes become big hikes eventually.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/20/pensions-state-scrap-triple-lock-protect-paul-johnson-ifs

Edited by crashmonitor

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The Guardian on the triple lock thing today.

A system that makes sure that pensioners always get the best increase over everybody else will eventually take the entire county's product by the laws of compounding. Being a bit facetious but little hikes ontop of little hikes become big hikes eventually.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/20/pensions-state-scrap-triple-lock-protect-paul-johnson-ifs

Don't worry, they'll get rid of it by the time we are pensionable.

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The Guardian on the triple lock thing today.

Golly, the Grauniad getting numerate in the face of Tory idiocy.

Interesting contrast to their howls of protest when Mrs T. *removed* the previous pensions lock (then a Labour thing). Taking anything from pensioners has historically been politically hard (despite pensioners having been better-off than workers for at least a generation) but the mood music there finally seems to be changing.

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to introduce a note of reality - this is talking about 'averages'

Its research showed on average pensioners earn £394 a week compared to the £385 median among the working age population.

As one of the despised pensioners I assure you my income is nowhere near that figure so I can only assume they researched a lot of final salary recipients to come up with that figure :huh:

the state pension is circa £115 a week, anyone who has Serps (paid for mind you) would add about another £40 per week - so unless the pensioner has a good works or final salry pension to make up the remaining £250 per week this is grossly misleading

but carry on boomer-bashing and lump all over 65s because of age in the same well-heeled cohort.

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and this is appallingly inaccurate

As well as the triple lock on the state pension, retirees are entitled to non-means-tested benefits worth upwards of £800 a year.

what are these ?

winter fuel allowance - £100 per person per annum (only get £200 if you are a single household)

Christmas box - £10

that is it - only the over 75s get a free TV licence worth £120 ish

that is not upwards of £800 a year

can only assume they are including the bus pass which would only be worth £100s if you live in London or a big city

I do hate this sort of economical with the truth journalism but then it is the Independent

Edited by olliegog

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to introduce a note of reality - this is talking about 'averages'

Its research showed on average pensioners earn £394 a week compared to the £385 median among the working age population.

We are talking about generations of people here - there is no option but to talk about 'averages'.

So whilst maybe you dont get this a week - lots of people do - and lots get much much more.

and this is appallingly inaccurate

As well as the triple lock on the state pension, retirees are entitled to non-means-tested benefits worth upwards of £800 a year.

what are these ?

winter fuel allowance - £100 per person per annum (only get £200 if you are a single household)

Christmas box - £10

that is it - only the over 75s get a free TV licence worth £120 ish

that is not upwards of £800 a year

can only assume they are including the bus pass which would only be worth £100s if you live in London or a big city

I do hate this sort of economical with the truth journalism but then it is the Independent

I only know about Scotland - but up here travel benefiots are worth a ******ing fortune.

My parents arent even at pensionable age yet - and both of them get crazy discounts, or free travel on a huge number of services.

For my mum - the train in rush hours costs something like £6 - but outwith that - she gets it for a single quid. Buses are free.

For many people - and up here you only have to be over 60 - travel benefits could well get into the thousands per year. Easily.

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To add to this - overheard a couple of 60+ blokes in the boozer last week. Talking about the free bus passes in Fife. If you live in a village that doesnt have a bus service - you can call up the local cab company and that cost gets charged to the council - to take you to the nearest bus stop - where you will hop on your free bus !!

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They talked about this on Radio 2 with Jeremy Vine. The £394 amount doesn't include housing costs; and as most pensioners have no mortgage, they are even more quids in...

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I know these figures are from 3 years ago but they are actual ONS figures

The average disposable income for retired households was £17,700 in 2010-11 compared with £35,000 for households in work. In 1977, pensioners received incomes around one third of the average working person's pay, but today the figure is closer to half.

The top 20% of pensioner couples have an average income of £815 a week (£42,380 a year) but the bottom 20% have to get by on an average of £221 a week, or £11,492 a year. Single women also receive significantly less than single men: £279 per week compared to £345.

I think the paper took the average of the richest and the poorest and came up with £394

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As one of the despised pensioners I assure you my income is nowhere near that figure so I can only assume they researched a lot of final salary recipients to come up with that figure :huh:

Is it recorded whether those gross figures include the benefits package (like free NHS) and - above all - "imputed rent" value of houses?

My parents earned less when they retired than earlier in life. But with no tax, mortgage or kids to support, they had a lot more spending money than when working.

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and this is appallingly inaccurate

As well as the triple lock on the state pension, retirees are entitled to non-means-tested benefits worth upwards of £800 a year.

what are these ?

winter fuel allowance - £100 per person per annum (only get £200 if you are a single household)

Christmas box - £10

that is it - only the over 75s get a free TV licence worth £120 ish

that is not upwards of £800 a year

can only assume they are including the bus pass which would only be worth £100s if you live in London or a big city

I do hate this sort of economical with the truth journalism but then it is the Independent

No doubt about it, as ccc said the free travel is worth a lot. My Dad uses his all the time, and it's valid all over the country.

Don't forget free prescriptions! Anyone over 60 I think, and a lot of people that age are on something or other. That's another £120 a year if you base it on the max a non-pensioner would pay.

Time to means-test pension benefits, surely? They don't have to be draconian tests but seriously - these benefits are going to some of the most financially comfortable people in the country.

Maybe time to swap pensioner discounts for the pensioner premium as well?

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have to move to Scotland then to take advantage of the £800 and upwards free pensioner benefits then

Nah - that is a step too far :huh:

I'm pretty sure its not just jockland.

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to introduce a note of reality - this is talking about 'averages'

Its research showed on average pensioners earn £394 a week compared to the £385 median among the working age population.

As one of the despised pensioners I assure you my income is nowhere near that figure so I can only assume they researched a lot of final salary recipients to come up with that figure :huh:

the state pension is circa £115 a week, anyone who has Serps (paid for mind you) would add about another £40 per week - so unless the pensioner has a good works or final salry pension to make up the remaining £250 per week this is grossly misleading

but carry on boomer-bashing and lump all over 65s because of age in the same well-heeled cohort.

They are comparing an Average to a Median

So a few rich pensioners will push up the average, but equally rich working people dont appear in the median.

Typical mathematically illiterate journalism - the Telegraph are almost as bad as the Daily Mail.

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Don't worry, they'll get rid of it by the time we are pensionable.

+1, no houses , no pensions, no chance of this continuing....

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/206868-the-generation-sleepwalking-into-old-age-poverty-britains-thirtysomethings-likely-to-end-up-with-a-pension-of-just-l271-a-month/

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To add to this - overheard a couple of 60+ blokes in the boozer last week. Talking about the free bus passes in Fife. If you live in a village that doesnt have a bus service - you can call up the local cab company and that cost gets charged to the council - to take you to the nearest bus stop - where you will hop on your free bus !!

It's no wonder pensioners voted no. Why rock the boat eh!

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It's no wonder pensioners voted no. Why rock the boat eh!

Er the generosity of travel concessions has increased under the snp .

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Do not accept the status quo as inevitable. There is no reason why younger people should not have a decent retirement to look forward to. Ask yourself why this is currently the case. You will be told by the VI's that it is no longer affordable but that is not true. It could be affordable should the distribution of wealth return to how it was when previous generations could expect a decent retirement. Sinking the lifeboats for current pensioners will not stop everyone drowning but reclaiming a few luxury yachts just might.

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Er the generosity of travel concessions has increased under the snp .

I should have been more clear. I was meaning all the benefits the older yins receive + good pensions. Why take the chance of coming out worse off by voting Yes? Screw the younger generations who want the opposite and voted with a slight majority for it. Also the younger ones will be the people still around.

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I should have been more clear. I was meaning all the benefits the older yins receive + good pensions. Why take the chance of coming out worse off by voting Yes? Screw the younger generations who want the opposite and voted with a slight majority for it. Also the younger ones will be the people still around.

Well yes - fear of change is morel likely to be instilled if you are closer to death and potentially needing help from the state. Thats just common sense.

Then again - the younger generation voted no in just as high numbers as the pensioners in the referendum - so who knows.

Fear of change is across the board generally. People dont usually like it.

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Funny how the Telegraph's inter-generational & boomer windups never outline the poorer old people screwed over by richer old people.

The referenced IFS presentation: http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/conferences/presentations/Johnson_PMI-presentation.pdf

http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8026

I think you have got to take the responsibility for the cohort you belong to, otherwise it is plainly unjust to followers. We need penal inheritance tax and it needs to be renamed Nation Debt Tax. Why should one cohort take an excess amount of welfare over lifetime taxation...currently £250,000 per capita on death.

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I think you have got to take the responsibility for the cohort you belong to, otherwise it is plainly unjust to followers. We need penal inheritance tax and it needs to be renamed Nation Debt Tax. Why should one cohort take an excess amount of welfare over lifetime taxation...currently £250,000 per capita on death.

I'd start by proposing means-testing of all pensioner benefits, concessions and reliefs while keeping net cohort spending constant. The resulting wails would immediately show up the problem as more than generational as everyone has to trash the 70's were tough vs ipods argument. As intra-generational splits make it clear that most differentiation relates to relative housing wealth, occupational pensions and unnecessary benefits we can then bin that proposal and apply proper means-testing, inheritance tax reforms etc with a good chunk of pensioners on-side. But until society can move on from thinking in age terms little will change.

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Then again - the younger generation voted no in just as high numbers as the pensioners in the referendum - so who knows.

That's not actually true though.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163

It was the old yins that saved the union against the wishes of the younger generations. When I say younger generations I am talking about 16 - 50 year olds. I suppose it is just the way the UK works at the moment. The older generations have everything and don't want to rock the boat in any way. If that means going against the wishes of the young who will be the ones actually having to deal with any issues in the future then so be it. It is the "I'm alright Jack" principle on a national scale.

A majority of the young see themselves being screwed over so want a change.

Hence this website.

Edited by CyberNat

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