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8 hours ago, A17 said:

People used to laugh at concerns over the "Schrodinger's immigrant". People laughing that people were concerned that an immigrant would at the same time take your job, and at the same time sit around on benefits. What a joke!

 

People (whether immigrants or not) on benefits do destroy jobs by pushing up taxes which causes the economy to grow slower - it is not a contradiction.

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16 hours ago, spyguy said:

 

TCs are the main reason Brexit happened - millions and i mean millions of EEers poured into the UK as TCs make living on a low wage, few hours job viable - see Roma selling BigIssue.

 

This is my view too. If immigrants had to support themselves in the same way that non European immigrants do there wouldn't have been the influx of ecconomic migrants and Brexit would not have happened- not that it has yet.

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Tax credits caused Brexit as spy says.It wasnt the only reason people voted leave,but it was the bit that pushed it over the line.Iv just gone back to work for a while in the best paid factory in the area and the highest paid in the motor manufacturing industry.My mate takes home more and they dont work.Tax credits,carers allowance,ADHD made up kid and two other kids.They spend their days eating out etc while everyone i work with is knackered after a night shift.

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3 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

People (whether immigrants or not) on benefits do destroy jobs by pushing up taxes which causes the economy to grow slower - it is not a contradiction.

This is why state benefits as negative taxation makes sense.  Separate taxation and benefit systems mean that the government gives with one hand and takes away with the other, often in ways that are not co-ordinated.  In the UK this is exacerbated by the byzantine nature of the social security system and the political objective of reducing the number of people unemployed and claiming JSA. 

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16 hours ago, nothernsoul said:

I followed Spy Guy's advice and read the first few pages at the start of this thread. He pertinently asks why a journalist doesnt highlight the tens of thousands some people are claiming each year. As this would be very easy to do, and even newspapers traditionally hard on scroungers like the Sun/Daily Mail avoid doing this, the only answer can be that tax credits are claimed by so many people now, they fear alienating their readers. 

I remember Frank Field walked out of his social security reform role very early on into New Labours First Term. Knowing his beliefs, he would have wanted a less open, more contributory system. However, Blair ,Brown, Clinton were all advocates of anthony Giddens Third Way, accept globalistion and the negative effects it has on the working class, but ameliorate the effects. Buy them off with Tax credits and the like, avoid unrest from poverty and high unemployment. But do not attempt to empower them, keep most of Thatchers anti union legislation in place, allow high levels of immigration to keep wages down, zero hours contracts etc. 

It was Brown. Blair was never let anywhere near money - he was given stuff to sign off.

Field  wanted a contribution system.

Brown wanted to hand out money to people to vote for him, look good on the 'no poor kids' thang.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 05/05/2019 at 19:34, spyguy said:

To be honest anyone with an 18yo would have stumbled onto TCs.

They came out in 2004ish, got lucrative in 2006ish after Brown fuxed up the payouts, resulting single mums being overpaid and owing DSS several 1000.

Pro single mums started popping out kids when their oldest reached 16ish. I was a school guvnor. The number of mums with nuts age gap kids is off the scale - new record eith a reception kid who has a 28yo sister ( i think the mum got knocked up at 16, started dating when kid went to uni, got knicked up in early 40s).

The number of Downs kids, after falling year on year since the Pill, is now shooting up. Im still waiting for published fugures, which appear to have stopped in 07.

The way to scam TCs is to ve a single mum - bf says he lives with hus mum - 2 kids adhd. 16h in tesco tills. Social housing.

Im seeing the fallout of the TC system which encourarages  low and medium earning people to drop out of FT in their 20s n 30s, sit on benefits for almost 20 years, then try and get work in their 40s n 50s, by which time they are unemployable.

Durhambirn bailed it earlier - tcs hide poverty but create extreme poverty 20 years later.

They also destroy local economies - once you get most of the 25-55 on TCs only a few companies can handle a large number of pt 16h unskilled workers.

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48300157

Thousands of teenagers in care are being "dumped" in unregulated homes and "abandoned to organised crime gangs", the BBC has been told.

The number of looked-after children aged 16 and over living in unregistered accommodation in England has increased 70% in a decade, Newsnight has found.

Shazza kicking 16yo Jayden out.

2019 - 17 = 2002 - when TCs frist rolled out.

The *big* rise in 35-40yo single mums squeezing into a mini skirt and going down spoons to get knocked up started in 2007-2008ish.

The rise in kids beign kciked out - and kids up for fostering, is down to Shazza getting the kid classed as ADHD for more bennies, then taking kid out of school.

Shazza was facing Jaydn living at home and her TCs stopping. No chance of Jayden getting a job.

 

 

 

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Just started reading this thread from the start.

Very depressing that TCs are still in place when it was very clear in 2015 that it's such a scam.

I'm in my early 30s, single, no kids, earning £50k and I'm getting screwed over big time.

I live in a room in a HMO in the SE and drive a £600 car because I'm desparately trying to save to get on the housing ladder and its going to take me years and then many years to pay it off, all the while there are people able to have a full family life while working 16 hours, many of which are not even from this country.

Will there ever be an end to this?

I'm waiting for a finantial collapse but will it ever come?

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8 hours ago, APerson said:

Just started reading this thread from the start.

Very depressing that TCs are still in place when it was very clear in 2015 that it's such a scam.

I'm in my early 30s, single, no kids, earning £50k and I'm getting screwed over big time.

I live in a room in a HMO in the SE and drive a £600 car because I'm desparately trying to save to get on the housing ladder and its going to take me years and then many years to pay it off, all the while there are people able to have a full family life while working 16 hours, many of which are not even from this country.

Will there ever be an end to this?

I'm waiting for a finantial collapse but will it ever come?

I know someone like you [in age] but she is a single mum and probably with tax credits is not much worse off than you although works part time.  I would suggest vote X for better but they don't exist - although Labour would make it even worse

Edited by iamnumerate
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  • 1 month later...
On 20/05/2019 at 06:53, spyguy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48300157

Thousands of teenagers in care are being "dumped" in unregulated homes and "abandoned to organised crime gangs", the BBC has been told.

The number of looked-after children aged 16 and over living in unregistered accommodation in England has increased 70% in a decade, Newsnight has found.

Shazza kicking 16yo Jayden out.

2019 - 17 = 2002 - when TCs frist rolled out.

The *big* rise in 35-40yo single mums squeezing into a mini skirt and going down spoons to get knocked up started in 2007-2008ish.

The rise in kids beign kciked out - and kids up for fostering, is down to Shazza getting the kid classed as ADHD for more bennies, then taking kid out of school.

Shazza was facing Jaydn living at home and her TCs stopping. No chance of Jayden getting a job.

 

 

 

I've seen the homeless Jayden situation happen several times IRL, Kid leaves college/school. August/September rolls around (Child benefit ends, Tax credits ends, Child support ends) And Jayden hits the streets, if he's lucky he gets a shared house/homeless hostel at tax payer expense. 

 

Was debating whether to screenshot this, but then the comment sealed the deal. This is from a "benefits support group":

54654556546.PNG

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7 hours ago, Council estate capitalist said:

I've seen the homeless Jayden situation happen several times IRL, Kid leaves college/school. August/September rolls around (Child benefit ends, Tax credits ends, Child support ends) And Jayden hits the streets, if he's lucky he gets a shared house/homeless hostel at tax payer expense. 

 

Was debating whether to screenshot this, but then the comment sealed the deal. This is from a "benefits support group":

54654556546.PNG

We need to be more German, and have long weird words to describe things.

'Wheresmefkingmoney' could be used to describe the fat, lazy single parent braying on the DSS door in September, wanting to know why the money has suddenly  dropped for 1500/m to 700/m

'I cant live on that!'

The other thing I see all the time, to the point where its no longer a surprise, is the 18yo being kicked out/moved out and going to live the Dad, the parent that the Mother stated was 'totally unsuited to have any contact with the child' and that she should have the benefits. And be rehoused .

As durhamborn nailed it, right atthe start of this thread, - tax credits do not prevent poverty. They only delay extreme poverty, which occurs when the kids hit 18, and the parents suddenly find they have to get a job after 10-15 years of doing very very little.

Ive an 11yo. Popped out just as people were sussing TCs (no, I dont get any, even CB).

The age gap in families are nuts now. You get a 10-11 gap between groups of 2 kids - first pair knocked out as people have kids. Then second pair knocked as the mother grasp that bennies are going to, so restarts having kids in her 40s.

The number of live Downs births, after falling since the Pill was invented, is shooting up. Not that youd know, as theyve pulled live Down stats since ~2002.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ghostly said:

A tax credit sad face case I can actually sympathise with.  Apparently, if you're terminally ill but aren't going to croak it in 6 months you could still be deemed 'fit to work' and have to go through a medical assessment with someone with no medical qualifications: https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1147563/Motor-neurone-disease-terminal-illness-lou-gehrig-disease-stop-punishing-sufferers

I think the UK welfare system is basically a make-work system at the moment, practically a welfare system in itself.

Yeah problem with the welfare system is it's too generous to one group and really mean to others.  If you look at the "UC elements" some people get many hundred a week, others get £73.10 and a room in a share house.

They're cutting job centres. Although you can see their aim of doing everything centrally it's a long way off due to incompetence. 

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23 hours ago, Ghostly said:

A tax credit sad face case I can actually sympathise with.  Apparently, if you're terminally ill but aren't going to croak it in 6 months you could still be deemed 'fit to work' and have to go through a medical assessment with someone with no medical qualifications: https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1147563/Motor-neurone-disease-terminal-illness-lou-gehrig-disease-stop-punishing-sufferers

I think the UK welfare system is basically a make-work system at the moment, practically a welfare system in itself.

A large part of the problem is TCs sucking up all the benefit money. Its insane.

Same as NHS, another magic org, not allowed to be held to account.

On current trend the uk will spend 70% of GDP -  1/3 NHS, 1/3 TCs1/3 pensioners.

All other public spend will be removed.

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23 hours ago, spyguy said:

A large part of the problem is TCs sucking up all the benefit money. Its insane.

Same as NHS, another magic org, not allowed to be held to account.

On current trend the uk will spend 70% of GDP -  1/3 NHS, 1/3 TCs1/3 pensioners.

All other public spend will be removed. 

I agree its going in this direction, but I think this couldnt be maintained for longer than 5-10 years before it collapses.

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  • 4 weeks later...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/31/government-urged-to-scrap-nasty-two-child-limit-on-benefits

"The limit means restricts the child allowance in universal credit and tax credits – worth £2,780 a year [per child]– is only paid for the first two children in a family. It does not affect children born before April 2017."  

So 161,000 capped households after 2 years. 

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11 hours ago, Tulip_mania said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/31/government-urged-to-scrap-nasty-two-child-limit-on-benefits

"The limit means restricts the child allowance in universal credit and tax credits – worth £2,780 a year [per child]– is only paid for the first two children in a family. It does not affect children born before April 2017."  

So 161,000 capped households after 2 years. 

I guess the Guardian which is concerned about the environment is really pleased we stop paying for people to have lots of children and cause overpopulation.

(I haven't read the article).

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On 20/05/2019 at 06:53, spyguy said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48300157

Thousands of teenagers in care are being "dumped" in unregulated homes and "abandoned to organised crime gangs", the BBC has been told.

The number of looked-after children aged 16 and over living in unregistered accommodation in England has increased 70% in a decade, Newsnight has found.

Shazza kicking 16yo Jayden out.

2019 - 17 = 2002 - when TCs frist rolled out.

The *big* rise in 35-40yo single mums squeezing into a mini skirt and going down spoons to get knocked up started in 2007-2008ish.

The rise in kids beign kciked out - and kids up for fostering, is down to Shazza getting the kid classed as ADHD for more bennies, then taking kid out of school.

Shazza was facing Jaydn living at home and her TCs stopping. No chance of Jayden getting a job.

 

 

 

Jayden's onthe news again.

30% of foster/care homes ids are now 16-17

Years ago - well, 20 - once you got beyond ~5 it was rare for older kids - bar the most criminal scummers - to end up in care.

Now it appears to be an everyday ocurrence.

Shazzas 17yo bennie token is getting towards its end of life. Shes now got 2 more kids, Jaxson and Mercedes now, both about start school. Needs Jayson out - room for the boyfriends ...

Theres a new benefitfraud, number of cases shooting up.

Previously the bogstandard Shazza in court was not declaring that Wayne was living her her rather than his mums,

This is being joined by Shazza claiming for kids who are now in care.

Never used to see these until ~5 years ago.

 

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3 minutes ago, Locke said:

Yes there is; cut taxation and regulation.

Just taxation would do.

 

TCs are a vast expensive on the  state i.e. tax payer/productive

They are also corrosive in other ways, not just encouraging people to have kids for bennies.

The biggest is that they destroy the work forces of town. Seriously. try recruiting in the North. Noone wants more than 16h/week.

Peoples prime working/earning years are their 20-30s.

TCs enable people to opt out for those years.

Most towns workforce is now public sector or under ~25 or above 55.

 

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Just taxation would do.

 

TCs are a vast expensive on the  state i.e. tax payer/productive

They are also corrosive in other ways, not just encouraging people to have kids for bennies.

The biggest is that they destroy the work forces of town. Seriously. try recruiting in the North. Noone wants more than 16h/week.

Peoples prime working/earning years are their 20-30s.

TCs enable people to opt out for those years.

Most towns workforce is now public sector or under ~25 or above 55.

 

I would say worse than that TC encourage people to not work - and be unemployable in future.

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38 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

I would say worse than that TC encourage people to not work - and be unemployable in future.

It does.

The first half of your work life is where you develp skills and contacts, to ensure you are emplyed during your 2nad half.

Who the fuk would employ a 45yo who's only work experience is a few years working before they were 22, then just 16h on the tills at tesco for 20 years.

Like duhamborn said early on, TCs guarantee absolute poverty later on.

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26 minutes ago, spyguy said:

It does.

The first half of your work life is where you develp skills and contacts, to ensure you are emplyed during your 2nad half.

Who the fuk would employ a 45yo who's only work experience is a few years working before they were 22, then just 16h on the tills at tesco for 20 years.

Like duhamborn said early on, TCs guarantee absolute poverty later on.

Tesco

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14 hours ago, Tulip_mania said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/31/government-urged-to-scrap-nasty-two-child-limit-on-benefits

"The limit means restricts the child allowance in universal credit and tax credits – worth £2,780 a year [per child]– is only paid for the first two children in a family. It does not affect children born before April 2017."  

So 161,000 capped households after 2 years. 

Also breathlessly reported that 59% have one parent in work... So 41% of capped households have no work?

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48 minutes ago, spyguy said:

It does.

The first half of your work life is where you develp skills and contacts, to ensure you are emplyed during your 2nad half.

Who the fuk would employ a 45yo who's only work experience is a few years working before they were 22, then just 16h on the tills at tesco for 20 years.

Like duhamborn said early on, TCs guarantee absolute poverty later on.

Tax credits and help to buy are possibly the worst ideas ever by any chancellor.

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