After Expenses, London Graduates Are Left With Only 19 Per Cent Of Their Salary To Spend

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-one-chart-that-shows-london-graduates-are-some-of-the-worst-off-in-the-world-a6695516.html

London is one of the toughest cities in the world for young graduates, according to a new report.

London is ranked 14 out of 20 countries for affordability by the property agency Knight Frank in its 2016 Global Cities report.

The index ranks 20 global cities and includes variables such as the cost of rented accommodation and utility bills through to the cost of groceries.

James Roberts, Head of Commercial Research at Knight Frank, said that residential areas in the centre appeal to young graduates starting out on their career.

“However, as the areas gain popularity, prices rise and often the young graduates struggle to remain in the area,” Mr Roberts said.

In some cities graduates are turning to their parents or getting in debt just to afford accommodation and the monthly basics in order to continue living centrally, he added.

Still you can't beat living in the London.....

[interestrateripoff]

Now even the cheap parts of London are unaffordable

• Luxury London: insatiable house price rises ahead

[Motor_Blade]

TBH, it beats me why most people bother to go to university these days, the days when a degree was the path to a better career are largely gone (with some exceptions) & a degree now involves getting £30-50,000 into debt for the privilege of doing a job you could probably do without a degree (not to mention the opportunity cost of lost earnings). Good practice for working for the bank/landlord in later life & not much else sadly......

[Guest]

19% is a pretty low savings rate but more than most of the UK. Every 4 years of work you'll have accumulated enough to live for a year.

And people wonder why the economy is terrible and growth is slow. Young professionals make bad choices but they are still being ripped off.

[billybong]

If graduates are finding it difficult to survive then how are non graduates in London faring.

London homes are the most expensive in the world except for Monaco - do they expect people to believe that grocery bills and utility bills are cheaper than Moscow and Paris or sufficiently cheaper to make enough difference that the likes of Paris and Moscow are worse. They don't want to admit that London is the worst - out of 20 and even probably the worst out of 30 or 40 etc.

Edited October 15, 2015 by billybong

[spyguy]

19% is a pretty low savings rate but more than most of the UK. Every 4 years of work you'll have accumulated enough to live for a year.

And people wonder why the economy is terrible and growth is slow. Young professionals make bad choices but they are still being ripped off.

You misread.

That 19% is whats left after taxes and accommodation.

[spyguy]

If graduates are finding it difficult to survive then how are non graduates in London faring.

London homes are the most expensive in the world except for Monaco - do they expect people to believe that grocery bills and utility bills are cheaper than Moscow and Paris or sufficiently cheaper to make enough difference that the likes of Paris and Moscow are worse. They don't want to admit that London is the worst - out of 20 and even probably the worst out of 30 or 40 etc.

Easy. Don't work and let benefits pay for your housing.

[billybong]

Easy. Don't work and let benefits pay for your housing.

I'm sure that explains a lot of it but it would have been good if the article had touched on that subject as well - relative to the circumstances of working graduates.

Motor_Blade and fru-gal pretty much sum it up as well.

Edited October 15, 2015 by billybong

[zugzwang]

If graduates are finding it difficult to survive then how are non graduates in London faring.

London homes are the most expensive in the world except for Monaco - do they expect people to believe that grocery bills and utility bills are cheaper than Moscow and Paris or sufficiently cheaper to make enough difference that the likes of Paris and Moscow are worse. They don't want to admit that London is the worst - out of 20 and even probably the worst out of 30 or 40 etc.

But how can this possibly true, seven years on from the deepest recession since the 1930s? A global recession, moreover, caused almost entirely by reckless and indiscriminate commercial lending against private property with London as it epicentre?

How can London house prices and rents still be the most expensive in the world relative to income? Everything that once supported this injustice should have been shaken to the ground!

[Guest]

You misread.

That 19% is whats left after taxes and accommodation.

I assumed that was 19% left after all expenses and bills. If bills and food haven't been taken out of that, then they won't be able to save much at all. That's probably why they just blow it all on experiences (read: getting drunk or ticking of travel destinations to be respected) instead.

[billybong]

But how can this possibly true, seven years on from the deepest recession since the 1930s? A global recession, moreover, caused almost entirely by reckless and indiscriminate commercial lending against private property with London as it epicentre?

How can London house prices and rents still be the most expensive in the world relative to income? Everything that once supported this injustice should have been shaken to the ground!

Indeed. How can the independent's article be true that London isn't the very worst - and even if it's true how can London still be so expensive after all that's happened.

http://

www.globalpropertyguide.com/most-expensive-cities

London homes 2nd only to Monaco and cheaper utility bills and groceries are supposed to make up the difference compared to Paris and Moscow etc whose property prices are about half that of London. Property is always the main and overriding expenditure for young people not on benefits etc.

Edited October 15, 2015 by billybong

[Kiwi Toast]

You misread.

That 19% is whats left after taxes and accommodation.

I assumed that was 19% left after all expenses and bills. If bills and food haven't been taken out of that, then they won't be able to save much at all. That's probably why they just blow it all on experiences (read: getting drunk or ticking of travel destinations to be respected) instead.

It says accomodation and monthly basics (including utility bills and groceries).

I wonder what or who they mean by graduates (presumably recent graduates, but how recent?). Also I wonder how many of these graduates are in "graduate jobs." I think the proportion might actually be quite high.If you struggle to get a decent job after graduating you are more likely to live at home (for the majority this isn't in London). So many of those left in London will presumably be on fairly decent pay. For those in "graduate jobs" (particularly graduate schemes) in addition to a salary there will typically be a pension (I assume something like 5% + matching up to 5% => you get about 15% for a contribution of about 3%), share options (SAYE and ESP/SIP), you will be paying off your student loan (this is effectively a tax and there will be a big tax cut once this is paid off). These are long term (or medium term in the case of share options) forms of saving presumably not considered in these calculations.

If we assume a salary of £30,000 a year, that's almost £500 per month left according to these figures.That actually seems OK for a single person. It's enough to save a fair amount over several years (especially if you factor in the likely fairly steep pay rises for a young graduate), or enough to enjoy yourself. Perhaps not both though.

[billybong]

http://

www.graduates.co.uk/graduate-starting-salaries-in-2013-14/

According to the latest reports, the highest starting salaries are in Investment Banking (£45,000) and Law (£38,000). The highest salaries tend to be in banking, finance, law and medicine.

...

...

How do Graduate Salaries Compare Across Different Geographic Locations?

It’s a rather well known fact that graduate starting salaries are highest in London. Graduates in London will earn an average of £27,000, compared to £24,000 for those outside the city. Given that the majority of the investment banking and law industry is based in London, it also explains why that figure is skewed.

...

It would have been interesting if the article had compared which graduate sectors do best and which do worst especially in London. The well paying sectors referred to above have always dragged the graduate averages higher. Still there's always benefits etc.

Edited October 15, 2015 by billybong

[zugzwang]

Worse than that we still have 'emergency' interest rates (because the economy can't support even a 0.25% rise) with £375bn of QE to 'help' and London property is 30 to 50% up on the so-called highs of 2007. Even in the suburbs prices have gone up by 20 to 30% in the last year or two and this now seems to be accepted as the new normal.

edit to add; and Barclays are about to promote a casino banker to the top job.

Dreams of owning a property near London can come true, chortles the Daily Mail.

Buy a 'home' of your own within the M25 for just £30,000!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property/article-3272238/Buy-tiny-home-M25-just-30-000.html

[billybong]

It's a right giggle.

[RichB]

Is 30k the new graduate average these days? I had imagined closer to 20k

http://www.savethestudent.org/student-jobs/whats-the-expected-salary-for-your-degree.html

Edited October 15, 2015 by RichB

[Kiwi Toast]

If you assume a salary of £30,000 take home will be say £20,000 of which 19% is £316 per month or £10 a day .... or 20 fags and a beer per day ... or a couple of starbuck coffees .... even on the full £30k £500 per month is only £15 per day spends...

Is it clear whether the 19% is of gross or net salary? The article says "After expenses, London graduates are left with only 19 per cent of their salary." If tax is an expense it would seem odd if the statistic is "we deduct certain costs from your salary, including taxes and then take what is left afterwards as a percentage of your net salary (i.e. your salary after some expenses)."

But I'll admit I was following spyguy who wrote: "That 19% is whats left after taxes and accommodation." Does anyone know for sure whether the data is based or gross or net?

I would assume the Starbucks, beer and fags are already covered under groceries or essentials. For the more frugal (don't smoke, drink little, don't pay much for coffee, and take other measures to keep groceries and bills low) there will obviously tend to be more than 19% left for discretionary items.

[Kiwi Toast]

Is 30k the new graduate average these days? I had imagined closer to 20k

http://www.savethestudent.org/student-jobs/whats-the-expected-salary-for-your-degree.html

I think 20k was quite a low starting graduate salary even in the early 2000s, so 30k seems possible. I know that law firms tended to pay 40-45k (this was back in 2006 I think) and then they'd give you a big pay rise after 2 years. I don't know so much about banks but think the pay would be similar. Also I think you get decent bonuses in banks (not the 5-10% that many get). Others in finance, management and IT earn less (maybe starting at 25-30k), but in my experience generally work shorter hours, and then get overtime if required to work longer. Accountants and actuaries get pay rises for passing exams.

Teachers get paid well. There seem to be lots of opportunities to earn more (ones I know each year took on new responsibility and get big pay rises - newly qualified to deputy head of year, or department, then head of department, etc. Pay is higher at the Harris Academies which are all over London).

I don't know much about pay for nurses, but they'd get a London weighting right? I know a policeman (early 20s), commuting to London and I asked whether he'd rather not work in London and he said the extra £8k was worth it (I don't know if that was 20k vs 28k or what, but still I was surprised at that figure).

I think you'd typically get about 20k for admin type jobs, and that's just outside London, so any that happen to be more central would presumably pay a bit more.

[billybong]

Of course with there being a lot more graduates than ever before some will get promoted and get decent pay rises relatively quickly but by the nature of the numbers of fresh graduates these days the vast majority will be held on as low a pay grade as possible for as long as employers can get away with it. Not to forget that lots of graduates are doing humdrum jobs serving coffee etc and their scope for pay rises is pretty much along the lines of minimum wage increases. Under those circumstances taking those pay scales into account London's position in the spare money league relative to other cities (according to the independent's article) seems well optimistic. Maybe if they're living in digs, sharing rooms and smoking roll ups etc - not the financial sector etc of course.

Edited October 16, 2015 by billybong

[Snugglybear]

In 2013 most graduates in London were on a starting salary of around £20,000. http://www.theguardian.com/careers/reality-check-graduate-salaryI'd be surprised if it was much higher now.

In design, the only field I know much about personally, starting salaries are between £19,000 and £21,000 - that's once you get past the (pretty much obligatory) stage of placements / internships on expenses / NMW lasting anything from a fortnight to 12 months.

[Motor_Blade]

I don't know why families even bother with school. Everything is about property these days so even dumb lazy kids born into a rich family will do better than a bright kid who works hard.

That's a good point TBH, I'd definitely say that there's plenty of families don't take education seriously & plenty of kids who are at school in body only - they're certainly not there because they're interested in learning and there seems to be a sense of entitlement to a good living. Just as well they won't be competing for jobs in a globalised economy with Chinese kids who spend 12 hours a day at school & take learning very seriously....oh hang on......

[CityLAD88888]

I think 20k was quite a low starting graduate salary even in the early 2000s, so 30k seems possible. I know that law firms tended to pay 40-45k (this was back in 2006 I think) and then they'd give you a big pay rise after 2 years. I don't know so much about banks but think the pay would be similar. Also I think you get decent bonuses in banks (not the 5-10% that many get). Others in finance, management and IT earn less (maybe starting at 25-30k), but in my experience generally work shorter hours, and then get overtime if required to work longer. Accountants and actuaries get pay rises for passing exams.

Teachers get paid well. There seem to be lots of opportunities to earn more (ones I know each year took on new responsibility and get big pay rises - newly qualified to deputy head of year, or department, then head of department, etc. Pay is higher at the Harris Academies which are all over London).

I don't know much about pay for nurses, but they'd get a London weighting right? I know a policeman (early 20s), commuting to London and I asked whether he'd rather not work in London and he said the extra £8k was worth it (I don't know if that was 20k vs 28k or what, but still I was surprised at that figure).

I think you'd typically get about 20k for admin type jobs, and that's just outside London, so any that happen to be more central would presumably pay a bit more.

Sounds about right, re banks: it depends - retail/corporate banking earn less, around 28k-35k ish and not much of a bonus, which is about the same as your Big4 consultant types. Investment banking more: up to 50k all-in (signing bonus etc.) but still not much of a bonus for the first 3 to 4 years depending on department/function in contrast to the picture painted by the media!

I have friends who moved down here straight after uni for average admin/media/sales type jobs on sub-20k and I've honestly no idea how they managed to live in London: bank of mum and dad I guess. I never would have bothered coming down from up t'north were it not for being offered a job in an investment bank.

[billybong]

Even Delhi and Bangalore seem to compare with London favourably (even a lot more favourably) - low wages but far lower housing costs etc. Contradicting the findings in the independent's article.

http://

www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=India&city1=Delhi&country2=United+Kingdom&city2=London

http://

www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=India&city1=Bangalore&country2=United+Kingdom&city2=London

Similar excercises can be done for the other cities supposed to be below London in the independent's article on graduates spare money. London is a massive swizz - there's no getting away from that fact.

Edited October 16, 2015 by billybong

[zugzwang]

Even Delhi and Bangalore seem to compare with London favourably (even a lot more favourably) - low wages but far lower housing costs. Contradicting the findings in the independent's article.

Similar excercises can be done for the other cities supposed to be below London in the independent's article on graduates spare money. London is a massive swizz - there's no getting away from that fact.

It comes to something when the occupants of a Third World dunghill like Delhi enjoy a higher standard of living than your typical Londoner.

[Timak]

In 2013 most graduates in London were on a starting salary of around £20,000. http://www.theguardian.com/careers/reality-check-graduate-salaryI'd be surprised if it was much higher now.

In design, the only field I know much about personally, starting salaries are between £19,000 and £21,000 - that's once you get past the (pretty much obligatory) stage of placements / internships on expenses / NMW lasting anything from a fortnight to 12 months.

Exactly.

I take graduate salaries to be the earnings of someone with a degree in their first job.

Not the earnings of the circa 5% who go onto official graduate training schemes offered through milkround interviews. They may well average £40k plus but they are a tiny percentage of graduates.

In my wife's work everyone is a graduate, most have higher level qualifications and they'll be on £35k after 10 years if they can prove they've produced world-class research.