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Frank Hovis

Special Forces Ultimate Hell Week - Winner's Comments

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I saw a couple of these including the final last night, good entertainment.

The last three were a big strong typical soldier - struggled on the memory test, a very fit woman doctor, and a short beardie guy who turned up with flowers on his shoes and just kept getting better, surprising himself. The woman doctor won (on merit).

What jarred for me was her comment that it was "nice to show that a female could be here".

Now I well know that are women boxers who can outfight most men, and when it comes to endurance races women are particularly good. I had no doubt that a "female" could be there and win it on merit. There are other reasons why they're not in the special forces (propaganda value if captured & tortured being the biggie).

When I have achieved anything I haven't claimed it as a victory for males, or any other grouping of which I am a member, nor would I ever do so. It would be pretending other than it is.

But you regularly hear "I have won this for all women".

No you haven't, you've won it for yourself and shown nothing other than that you are good at it, you can't extend to that to your whole sex.

I can understand it in terms of genuine firsts where there is personal sacrifice to genuinely benefit others that come after you - first woman undergraduate, first woman doctor indeed, and widening it first black pupil in a white school in the segregated southern US in the 60s - but when all the benefits accrue to you personally rather than who comes after you then you cannot claim it for all females, that is massive arrogance.

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Guest eight

Every time I score a goal in football I see it as a victory for white people. The entire team is white, after all....

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I watched the series, thought it was cracking TV and that Miller (the female doctor) won on merit too. She was excellent.

Has she actually been saying things like that? I'm a bit disappointed if so. I watched a post competition interview on Youtube where she seemed switched on and reasonable.

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Every time I score a goal in football I see it as a victory for white people. The entire team is white, after all....

Same thing isn't it? Putting yourself up as representative of your whole race.

Comments by her (there was another similar) about 40 mins into the last ep.

Up to then I was rooting for her as being smaller than the men carrying the same weights would have been harder.

After that I wanted somebody else to win.

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Missus has become addicted to this show in the last few days so I saw a bit of the final and the russian special forces one. I can't remember any comment she made, but if she said any of that kind it would have been fair I think. After all the SAS guy said he'd had to change his expectations of what women were capable as the result of her performance. Regardless I would have made a lot of allowances if she just babbled a load of crap after what they went through that week.

She did an excellent job, and proved herself to be the right stuff on a number of levels. It was sad to see some of the men being undone by their egos although I did wonder if they knew that some level of self-awareness and humility was required.

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They also said that about the guy with flowers on his shoes. Women do triathlons etc. very successfully and this is like an extended version of the same.

Some of the guys in the interrogation clearly hadn't read Bravo Two Zero where the guidance is to be the dull grey man who does not attract any attention. They really should have been told this beforehand.

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I also think the winner should have had to have a bare-knuckle fight with Ronnie Pickering.

And I am sure Claire would have hammered him :-)

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I don't think it's unreasonable to feel a sense of achievement at proving a woman can perform at that level. In the link I posted she says how she recognises that she hasn't passed SAS selection and couldn't necessarily do so but that she's achieved much more than many would previously have thought possible for a woman - fair enough.

I agree with you about the interrogation bit, I was curious about what they were and weren't told beforehand. Just to be told the four things you can say and left to get on with it doesn't seem fair, the guy who wouldn't take his hat off might have reasonably thought he wasn't supposed/allowed to.

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I don't know any boll8cks about "special forces". I've seen women on gas platforms, and they are not particularly "hard", and usually get the best accommodation! They are quite normal really, and there for the same reason. To get paid! :unsure:

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Special forces, any sport that goes on for more than 2 minutes - all comes down to endurance.

Being a grunt does not work.

One, they tend to only work on their upper body, normally just the biceps.

You need to be strong and wiry - the trade for muscle strength for extra wieght.

And, if you are dropped in the middle of nowhere, where will you buy your whey power from?

Then you have to to manage being cold, as in really cold, no shelter.

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Guest eight

I feel similarly let down when celebrities come out as being gay - Tom Daley being the prime example. I thought we were supposed to be so enlightened that being gay is considered unremarkable, so why remark upon it? I'm not defined by my sexuality and I can't for the life of me see why a homosexual should be either.

Should I announce my straightness to the World?

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Guest eight

And, if you are dropped in the middle of nowhere, where will you buy your whey power from?

The Kurds?

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I feel similarly let down when celebrities come out as being gay - Tom Daley being the prime example. I thought we were supposed to be so enlightened that being gay is considered unremarkable, so why remark upon it? I'm not defined by my sexuality and I can't for the life of me see why a homosexual should be either.

Should I announce my straightness to the World?

I've never heard Tom say anything like "I've won this gold medal to show that gay men can win gold medals".

He's open about bring gay but it's the media that bang on about it, not him.

Now if a gay Premier league footballer came out then he could genuinely say that he was doing it for all gay footballers as he would suffer abuse for doing it but make it easier for subsequent players.

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I feel similarly let down when celebrities come out as being gay - Tom Daley being the prime example. I thought we were supposed to be so enlightened that being gay is considered unremarkable, so why remark upon it? I'm not defined by my sexuality and I can't for the life of me see why a homosexual should be either.

Should I announce my straightness to the World?

I guess they believe the world isn't yet that enlightened, or perhaps their part of it isn't. I wonder also if it is a little like being an alcoholic and admitting it, ie an essential rite of passage - but celebs simply have a larger stage. I do think that acceptance of homosexuality has made incredible progress in my adult lifetime, but perhaps there is more to do. Not being gay myself I don't know what existing prejudice they face.

But I can well imagine that in some future enlightened world it'll be no more necessary to tell people (outside of potential partners) your sexual preferences than it is to tell that you have a birthmark on your shoulder blade. I do remember some very odd conversations in my 20s where any number of friends would ask me if I was gay (I was simply not interested in any relationship due to past trauma) and feeling like this wasn't a conversation I really wanted to have or why they should be interested.

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Now I well know that are women boxers who can outfight most men, and when it comes to endurance races women are particularly good. I had no doubt that a "female" could be there and win it on merit. There are other reasons why they're not in the special forces (propaganda value if captured & tortured being the biggie).

The real difference is strength and in particular the ability to carry huge weights on your back, something that Miller struggled with.

In the show I think they were carrying 20kg, in a real conflict you might be talking more like 50kg.

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Guest eight

If you did, we'd say you 'protesteth too much' ;)

Heh, I'll have you know I'm as straight as the next man!

(This is by way of being an attempted joke predicated on the vanishingly slim chance of DTMark happening to make the next post.....)

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Guest eight

Hah. You've just tarred Voice of Reason with your brush. Deny it again and you must be a pedo.

Give over. He looked at least thirteen.

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The real difference is strength and in particular the ability to carry huge weights on your back, something that Miller struggled with.

In the show I think they were carrying 20kg, in a real conflict you might be talking more like 50kg.

Didn't the Royal Marines all carry 90 pound packs across the Falkland Islands?

And the Marines aren't even considered special forces.

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Didn't the Royal Marines all carry 90 pound packs across the Falkland Islands?

And the Marines aren't even considered special forces.

oops, 80lbs

After disembarking from ships at San Carlos on East Falkland, on 21 May 1982, Royal Marines and members of the Parachute Regiment yomped (and tabbed) with their equipment across the islands, covering 56 miles (90 km)[3] in three days carrying 80-pound (36 kg)[4]loads.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yomp

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The burds are just annoyed that even with something they have been practising for 2 thousand years - like baking a cake - a bloke still usually comes along and beats them at their own game. :D

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The burds are just annoyed that even with something they have been practising for 2 thousand years - like baking a cake - a bloke still usually comes along and beats them at their own game. :D

My uncle made exceedingly good cakes. :unsure:

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