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Cut Pensioner Benefits Immediatley

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There is a whole department of DWP devoted to the administration of winter fuel payments. The Tories could kill 2 birds with one stone and cut a whole lot of pointless civil service jobs if they cut this benefit which goes to some of the richest people in the country. Families with children should be prioritised above pensioners for cash handouts as that is the time when budgets are stretched the most in my experience.

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I suspect that a lot of older people would want the UK economy rebalanced for the future benefit of their children and other young people as well as the UK in general - although I dare say that there are also some who like the way the economy is now.

I don't think so, in their la la world of economic alchemy we can all work thirty years propped up by tax credits and enjoy thirty years of retirement. All fundable by the bankers, the bonuses, the bankers, the bonuses.

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The No vote for Scottish independence referendum didn't seem to do the SNP any harm so a vote to stay in the eu might or might not be similar for UKIP, it might focus support. A week is a long time in politics never mind 5 years and by then the electorate might also be considering the impact of negative interest rates and the possible abolition of cash as well as another incompetent and who knows but another sleazy Conservative government. I don't think Corbyn wants to stand for the general election but it's quite possible to envisage a victory. The parties aren't that far apart in the polls even now.

Edited by billybong

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I don't think so, in their la la world of economic alchemy we can all work thirty years propped up by tax credits and enjoy thirty years of retirement. All fundable by the bankers, the bonuses, the bankers, the bonuses.

We all have our own opinions but I don't think you can categorise all the older people that way.

Edited by billybong

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The winter fuel is all but name just part of the pension.....they call it something special just to make certain people feel special and other people feel like certain people get special treatment.....

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The winter fuel is all but name just part of the pension.....they call it something special just to make certain people feel special and other people feel like certain people get special treatment.....

The gov (whoever it happens to be) always seems to make annual capital out of announcing continuation of WFA.

If it were abolished, or even formally consolidated into basic pension, a regular good news announcement wouldn't be there to use.

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There is a whole department of DWP devoted to the administration of winter fuel payments. The Tories could kill 2 birds with one stone and cut a whole lot of pointless civil service jobs if they cut this benefit which goes to some of the richest people in the country. Families with children should be prioritised above pensioners for cash handouts as that is the time when budgets are stretched the most in my experience.

What does the department do for the other eleven months of the year..i find that very hard to believe.

Anecdotally, I used to work in a Japanese bank (stock brokers) and had complete responsibility for dividend payments on thousands of companies across main account, client account, prime brokerage and other assorted accounts (nostro, conduits etcetera). In all I reckon there were 12,000 accruals across 50,000 accounts and would take a six weeks max from declaration - ex - record date to pay date and the subsequent reconciliations. No one payment was the same.

How complex can it be?

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Giving people career averaged pensions is still cloud cuckoo land. It needs to be based purely on contributions and growth of fund. Anything else and it's way too liable to end in massive deficit which everyone else picks up the tab for.

They'd already have done this but investing the contributions isn't possible as they're being used to pay current pensions, ponzi style.

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Make tax allowances the same (have they already done this) and raise them s fewer low income people pay tax.

No one paying tax should get benefits. That's insane. Isn't it?

And bedroom tax should be applied equally.

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And the answer to the meaning of life, the universe and everything for this lot is spend, spend, spend, kill free speech if they don't agree with you and a give the odd Tory a good thump or egging for good meaure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11910387/david-cameron-at-conservative-conference-day-one-live.html

Indeed, some people have equally unrealistic views.

That does not prevent the Taxpayer Alliance from being anything more than a self serving mouth piece for people who already have a lot of money and simply want more. Moreover, if you want to reduce the deficit and reduce the tax burden on future generations (an argument often propounded on this site) there is no point in cutting spending if you are simply going to dole the money out to current tax payers.

Anyway if I was them would not hold my breath because the Budget stats show Osbourne has generally raised not cut taxes in his period as Chancellor, increasing the tax take by over £100 billion per annum since 2010.

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It's threads like this that irritate me more than a bit. On one hand right wing 'capitalist' views and demonisation of people in receipt of 'benefits'. Jealousy beyond understanding.

I read on regular basis posters whinging about not being prepared to purchase at current levels and how 'well off' the current pensioners are and how they despise people with BTL properties.

The dichotomous thinking must cause some posters untold angst when some of their ideas don't fit into their little boxes.

The TPA IS nothing more than an unelected, Tory wind up group... But continues to flick some peoples switches.

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What a poor excuse for a human being this man Wilde is. So he want's to deny an older persons entilement by hoping they will die off to prevent them voting Tory or wish the get dementia so the are mentaly incapable of exercising the democratic right to dispose of the bastards. And so he can save a few pence on his puny tax contribution. This is his thanks for them saving his scaggy neck fighting for democracy which he only values to degrade

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What a poor excuse for a human being this man Wilde is. So he want's to deny an older persons entilement by hoping they will die off to prevent them voting Tory or wish the get dementia so the are mentaly incapable of exercising the democratic right to dispose of the bastards. And so he can save a few pence on his puny tax contribution. This is his thanks for them saving his scaggy neck fighting for democracy which he only values to degrade

Good grief

The only thing most current oldies fought for was their maximum allocation of BT privatisation shares.

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Good grief

The only thing most current oldies fought for was their maximum allocation of BT privatisation shares.

But they doid it when they were younger. I'm not saying they are perfect because they do like voting against their own interest as I found with my elderly neighbours last May

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Luckily for the Tories they can make a lot of very harsh cuts because the electorate doesn't really have anyone else to vote for. Labour would possibly make even harsher cuts and UKIP will be lucky if they are still around after any EU referendum. Even if they are they will need to catch up by about 6 million votes to come close to the Tories.

This was the key part of the article I thought. The comment that because Labour is unelectable, the Tories shouldn't worry about being nice to people who voted for them. Pensioners and BTLers beware!

There are a couple of caveats however:

1. This is the tax payers' alliance, it isn't Tory policy, and the TPA are considered a bunch of sociopathic nutters even by many members of the Conservative party.

2. The Tories have a majority of 8, and Labour are may not be that unelectable even with Corbyn in charge, a recent poll put them just 6% behind the Tories, so they may need to be more careful than the TPA think.

BUT

I love the idea that the unintended consequence of the older generation voting for the Tory narrative of cutting benefits for scroungers, actually results in the biggest benefit recipients - wealthy pensioners and landlords - being hit the most. This is how it should be, and the tax changes for BTL may reflect the beginning of this process in action.

I surprised myself with how much hatred I felt for the Tories in coalition, I'm now surprising myself with how much I'm enjoying watching events unfold with them being in majority government.

Bring it on!

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We all have our own opinions but I don't think you can categorise all the older people that way.

I don't buy this argument that because someone is the exception and he contributed more in taxes than hedrew in benefits that that excuses him from the collective responsibility of his cohort. If you did well, clearly you should have paid more taxes and be ready for your estate to pay inheritance tax to cover the massive quarter of a million pound shortfall in revenue that each departing soul now leaves and gets added to the national debt.

Why should the strivers of the future have to pay not only for the welfare of their weaker fellow cohort but the cohort departed from this world.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Good grief

The only thing most current oldies fought for was their maximum allocation of BT privatisation shares.

A pensioner 65-75 would have been in their prime earning/production in the mid 70s.

You might want to check UK history for the hard work and sacrifice.

My Dad and his co-workers took the UK manufacturing advantage and p1ssed it away in ~10 years.

Frankly, a pensioner of the age 65-75 should be hung from a lamp post rather than cosseted.

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A pensioner 65-75 would have been in their prime earning/production in the mid 70s.

You might want to check UK history for the hard work and sacrifice.

My Dad and his co-workers took the UK manufacturing advantage and p1ssed it away in ~10 years.

Frankly, a pensioner of the age 65-75 should be hung from a lamp post rather than cosseted.

Couldn't agree more. My father worked in metal works/manufacturing ((MD)Birmingham) and first they moved all the labour to the Welsh Valleys, bled the companies dry and finally selling out to the far east. The owners set themselves up and their children forever more. All in the late 70s early 80s.

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Pensioners played by the rules so why shouldn't they reap the rewards now ? I think it's unfair to change 'the rules' when a sizeable number played the game & halfwits want to change the rules when the players don't have the opportunity to better their position and lose out to nothing more than outright thievery.

Don't forget we all want to get older & eventually become pensioners.

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:o

You are the leader of the Tax Payers' Alliance and I claim my £5.

I guess the biggest irritation for me, and I probably qualify as being in a taking cohort too at 51, is the lack of admission and the belief in the magic money tree of older cohorts.

(1) They take no responsibility for the collective lifetime shortfall in revenue of their cohort, and even use the excuse that they are a high earner so are somehow exempt from the two trillion debt they will leave.

(2) They believe money grows on trees, seriously I have a friend on disabilty living allowance and minimum income guarantee ( that's £300 per week and rent paid) who says it's not much for a lifetime's work. As far as I can tell her chequered employment history is a short spell as a canteen assistant and a paper round, otherwisw drawing benefits and single.

(3) The assumption that the half a trillion pound welfare bill and one hundred billion a year shortfall can somehow be solved by taxing a few rich people.

That clip again, but it's precisely the argument put forward by a lot of people as to the solution to all our problems.....

Edited by crashmonitor

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They change the rules all the time. Today's workers pay in just as much or more as today's pensioners did but won't get anything like the same benefits.

And yet the books are always balanced by increasing the burden on the young rather than decreasing the entitlements of the old. The pain is never shared equally.

But IMO if you want to tax the old a much fairer way is to increase inheritance tax, which has the added benefit of allowing social mobility.

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They change the rules all the time. Today's workers pay in just as much or more as today's pensioners did but won't get anything like the same benefits.

And yet the books are always balanced by increasing the burden on the young rather than decreasing the entitlements of the old. The pain is never shared equally.

But IMO if you want to tax the old a much fairer way is to increase inheritance tax, which has the added benefit of allowing social mobility.

Absolutely, and there will be trillions of pounds worth of estates that could be subject to mopre tax (or any tax) over the next few decades. Not least because retired people control 60% of the Nation's wealth. Incidentally i would be well into inheritance tax now, and I bloody well think I should be too.

Edited by crashmonitor

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Pensioners played by the rules so why shouldn't they reap the rewards now ? I think it's unfair to change 'the rules' when a sizeable number played the game & halfwits want to change the rules when the players don't have the opportunity to better their position and lose out to nothing more than outright thievery.

Don't forget we all want to get older & eventually become pensioners.

Not really. What are the rules?

Most of the 70+ barely paid a penny in.yet are have claimed several 10k's in pension payouts.

In fact, most families I grew up paid less in tax than they drew in benefits.

Its a Ponzi, written on he backs of your kids.

If pensioners 'played by the rule' why does the pension credit exist?

Sure we'll get old and become pensioners but anyone under 50 will find that about 30 years of pension spending has been blown in the last 10 years.

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Couldn't agree more. My father worked in metal works/manufacturing ((MD)Birmingham) and first they moved all the labour to the Welsh Valleys, bled the companies dry and finally selling out to the far east. The owners set themselves up and their children forever more. All in the late 70s early 80s.

My maternal Gran, who hated my Dad, used to joke that the only reason he went into work was to go on strike.

Come the early 80s he was maid redundant and never to work again.

His working life constsed of - leaving school at 15, doing apprenticeship, national service. Got to 25, went part-time so he could 'pursue his hobby' i..e not working (another of my grans).

Met Mum in his late 30s, sponged money of GPs for house, got a job, left the job after 1 year, went to another job, left that after 1 and returned to the other. Worked for ~9 years, laid off in his early 50s. Never worked again.

Basically he was employed for a grand total of less than 25 years out of an expected 45.

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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