Cut Pensioner Benefits Immediatley

[workingpoor]

Well said, I think the "bedroom tax" should also be applied.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

Ministers should waste no time to make unpopular cuts to pensioner benefits, a think tank director has said.

Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.

And others would forget which party had done it, he added.

At the group's meeting at the Conservative conference in Manchester, former defence secretary Liam Fox said spending cuts must be "for keeps".

Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.

Mr Wild, who is research director of the think tank which campaigns for lower taxes and highlights examples of Government waste, said the cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons".

"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."

He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'

Edited October 5, 2015 by workingpoor

[Guest eight]

He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'

Sounds a little bit Daily Mash.

[2buyornot2buy]

Even went so far as to call the whole thing a Ponzi.

Edited October 5, 2015 by 2buyornot2buy

[porca misèria]

The idea makes sense, but I don't think much of the suggested reasons.

Anyone would think the author was setting out to scupper any chance of it actually happening, by implanting the idea of such cynical and even vindictive reasoning in the public mind.

[goldbug9999]

Small beer. They need to slash all public sector pensions by 50%.

[crashmonitor]

Even went so far as to call the whole thing a Ponzi.

Yep a whole life Ponzi scheme, each departing soul leaving a quarter of a million National debt for their followers courtesy of extended retirement and costly NHS care that nobody factored in back in the sixties when the health service, in particular, cost a seventh of current levels in real terms.

Of course, pensioners love to gossip about those grubby youths on £50 a week job seekers. great diversionary tactic.

[Guest_northshore_*]

For context they also campaign for lower council tax, lower business rates, relief on vacant properties and lower 'wealth' taxes - with everything inc taxes on 'capital' to be replaced by taxes on consumption and labour income. i.e. they're the taxpaying landowners alliance.

[Assume The Opposite]

Only seems fair given how much skull******ing the poor have endured over the years.

Osbourne adding £600bn to the national debt won't help, funny how this guy didn't mention that or the big fat HTB ponzi scheme in front of our faces.

Seems like selective bias if you ask me, but some good points.

[crashmonitor]

Totally agree. And think how many pensioners are living in social housing that is too big for them. Why should it be only non-pensioner households who are subject to the bedroom tax?

Those currently over 65 have only ever known a super welfare state, cradle to grave. Special dispensation will always apply to this group, but their privileges will be rolled back for their followers.

Don't worry the problem will be sorted when you get to retire at 75, not least because the exchequer will have nothing left.

[Tin Foil Hat]

Small beer. They need to slash all public sector pensions by 50%.

Already been done - all are now career averaged/outsourced and not final salary. Was changed a few years back now.

[Frugal Git]

Already been done - all are now career averaged/outsourced and not final salary. Was changed a few years back now.

Giving people career averaged pensions is still cloud cuckoo land. It needs to be based purely on contributions and growth of fund. Anything else and it's way too liable to end in massive deficit which everyone else picks up the tab for.

[crashmonitor]

Already been done - all are now career averaged/outsourced and not final salary. Was changed a few years back now.

Existing rights protected, changes will be more than consumed by greater longevity. At the end of the day these contracts will be honoured for service already made. We are stuck with the cost and we are stuck with the consequences for economic growth going forward.

Edited October 5, 2015 by crashmonitor

[Errol]

There's always a first time for everything.

[White Craw]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

He (Alex Wild) added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'

Does A Wild really think it wouldn't be remembered come 2020?

[Si1]

Existing rights protected, changes will be more than consumed by greater longevity. At the end of the day these contracts will be honoured for service already made. We are stuck with the cost and we are stuck with the consequences for economic growth going forward.

Those with existing fs rights from previous years have a little pot of gold.

Having said that those I know possibly don't fit into the new reality of public service and their actual final salaries may end up being a lot lower than they were expecting if they stick around.

[Si1]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

He (Alex Wild) added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'

Does A Wild really think it wouldn't be remembered come 2020?

Who else are they going to vote for?

[billybong]

Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.

And others would forget which party had done it, he added.

It's a sort of policy to win a general election - not much of a policy but a policy of sorts. Cutting the winter fuel allowance might (or might not) be the economic thing to do for well off people. Some people might forget no matter how good their memory is but for sure Labour (and UKIP and the others) will be there to remind them. He would probably recommend that they put any old guff in their manifesto and renege on it because soon after the election some people will forget and some won't be around. Ah, they already do that.

It's a shame that the "Think Tank" didn't spend more thinking time about ways to rebalance the UK economy.

Incidentally a lot of people still remember that it was Labour who introduced the allowance about 18 years ago after a very sleazy and begrudging Conservative government (and that's not suggesting any support for Labour) so expecting them to forget about it in less than 5 years time seems a bit unrealistic and unlikely.

Edited October 5, 2015 by billybong

[Snugglybear]

Who else are they going to vote for?

I think the idea is that they would still vote Tory as they wouldn't remember who cut the winter fuel supplement.

Not sure whether one will get good publicity from reminding people that they / their relatives are going to die / lose their marbles. mind.

[wonderpup]

Many of those hit by a cut to the winter fuel allowance might "not be around" at the next election, said Alex Wild of the Taxpayers' Alliance.

I suppose it could work on the basis that those who really need it would hopefully freeze to death before they could register their disapproval at the ballot box.

We could extend the same logic to the NHS- cut back care on those most likely to die soonest on the basis that their impact on the election will be neutralized by their failure to exist come election time.

Of course both plans have a potentially dangerous flaw- while the targets of the policy will be dead their living relatives might not be wildly keen on the party that hastened their demise.

[wonderpup]

Luckily for the Tories they can make a lot of very harsh cuts because the electorate doesn't really have anyone else to vote for.

I'm not sure that's true any more- Corbyn might look like a joke now but after a lot of very harsh cuts from the Tories he may start to appear a little more appealing. The problem is that everyone is in favor of harsh cuts on the other guy- but not so keen when those cuts impact on them or people they care about.

A good example of this is Tax credits- many of the people who went along with the idea of cuts to the welfare budget did not understand that this included their Tax Credit payments- they had in mind it would the daily mails stereotypical 'scrounger' who would be targeted-not themselves.

So a more socialist socialist party is not all good news for the Tories- because they will now have to consider the degree to which their welfare cuts will swell the ranks of the disaffected who might then switch their support to Labour.

[stormymonday_2011]

It's a shame that the "Think Tank" didn't spend more thinking time about ways to rebalance the UK economy.

It is the Taxpayer Alliance

Their answer to everything including Nuclear Armageddon would be spending cuts for the poor and tax cuts for the rich.

The danger for the Conservatives if they attempt to 'rebalance' the demographic of their vote is that the old buggers simply swap to voting for UKIP or Labour while they dont actually attract much in the way of youth vote at all,

BTW I know one or two elderly people who surprisingly appear to be big Jeremy Corbyn fans simply because he is closer to their age than smoothies like Cameron and Osbourne. Corbyn might expouse some pretty left wing views but he does not rant or shout like a lot of the left and that plays surprisingly well with the older generations

Edited October 5, 2015 by stormymonday_2011

[crashmonitor]

Its the Taxpayer Alliance

Their answer to everything including Nuclear Armageddon would be spending and tax cuts

And the answer to the meaning of life, the universe and everything for this lot is spend, spend, spend, kill free speech if they don't agree with you and a give the odd Tory a good thump or egging for good meaure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/11910387/david-cameron-at-conservative-conference-day-one-live.html

[Solitaire]

I'm not sure that's true any more- Corbyn might look like a joke now but after a lot of very harsh cuts from the Tories he may start to appear a little more appealing. The problem is that everyone is in favor of harsh cuts on the other guy- but not so keen when those cuts impact on them or people they care about.

A good example of this is Tax credits- many of the people who went along with the idea of cuts to the welfare budget did not understand that this included their Tax Credit payments- they had in mind it would the daily mails stereotypical 'scrounger' who would be targeted-not themselves.

So a more socialist socialist party is not all good news for the Tories- because they will now have to consider the degree to which their welfare cuts will swell the ranks of the disaffected who might then switch their support to Labour.

Yes.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Solitaire

[crashmonitor]

Yes.

Trying to extract any more from unemployed youths living at home with mum on £50 a week was always going to raise a pittance and is indeed a drop in the ocean compared to welfare that goes to working people and the retired.

[billybong]

It is the Taxpayer Alliance

Their answer to everything including Nuclear Armageddon would be spending cuts for the poor and tax cuts for the rich.

The danger for the Conservatives if they attempt to 'rebalance' the demographic of their vote is that the old buggers simply swap to voting for UKIP or Labour while they dont actually attract much in the way of youth vote at all,

BTW I know one or two elderly people who surprisingly appear to be big Jeremy Corbyn fans simply because he is closer to their age than smoothies like Cameron and Osbourne. Corbyn might expouse some pretty left wing views but he does not rant or shout like a lot of the left and that plays surprisingly well with the older generations

I suspect that a lot of older people would want the UK economy rebalanced for the future benefit of their children and other young people as well as the UK in general - although I dare say that there are also some who like the way the economy is now.