spyguy Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Despite coming from north North Yorkshire, I support Newcastle, which is rare. Most of my schoolmates support 'boro. Most of family support Leeds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11891430/The-north-is-being-cut-adrift-in-English-football-and-I-fear-the-damage-may-be-permanent.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Despite coming from north North Yorkshire, I support Newcastle, which is rare. Most of my schoolmates support 'boro. Most of family support Leeds. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/11891430/The-north-is-being-cut-adrift-in-English-football-and-I-fear-the-damage-may-be-permanent.html Great stuff. I've noticed since Neville returned from the death of his father that he's been pulling no punches on the Monday night football, and now this - I've got a new respect for a guy who previously, it's fair to say, I pretty much couldn't stand. I'm a Sunderland supporter and I agree with every word he says. And it ties in entirely with this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Have to say I live and work in the region and it's really not as depressing as you're making out. If you have a reasonably well paying job in the area (i'm talking average salary type wages)it's almost certainly the best place in the country to live. I moved to yarm about a decade ago and have never looked back, great place to bring my kids up. I see they plan to build 300+ homes on or around the site of Tall Trees... that nightclub in pretty Yarm. Yes I've been inside, and we left after an hour - was not my scene at all. 2013 http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/end-era-iconic-yarm-nightclub-5786364 2014 fire http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/tall-trees-fire-arson-investigation-7348606 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Great stuff. I've noticed since Neville returned from the death of his father that he's been pulling no punches on the Monday night football, and now this - I've got a new respect for a guy who previously, it's fair to say, I pretty much couldn't stand. I'm a Sunderland supporter and I agree with every word he says. And it ties in entirely with this thread. Neville should consider why Manchester United pay absolutely top dollar in transfer fees and wages yet are consistently outclassed by the best sides on the continent. Here's a hint Gary - it's not a problem with the North East. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Well it's happening by the looks. 1700 Christmases cancelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Inflationary. Sell Govt Bonds. Er... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Inflationary. Sell Govt Bonds. Er... Not really. ~2k Smoggies find themselves working for a weird, under-capitilised Thai owned steel maker, who thinks they can compete with vastly subbed, 'strategic' Chinese steel producers. Sad though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Not what really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Not what really? Deflationary. Just another fall out from China entering the world economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Interesting you thought I was serious about inflationary. Read what I wrote again. Er... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamborn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Well it's happening by the looks. 1700 Christmases cancelled. They need to master the act of ending peoples contracts.Most factories in the north east end peoples contracts Christmas Eve now. The government spends £11.7 billion on foreign aid every year yet the north east has been on its knees since the early 80s. The government's only plan seems to be to get the Chinese to invest all their cash into London property that we give them for their manufactured goods.Then crash London property to cancel out the money. The northern powerhouse seems very dodgy doesnt it.Northern workhouse is more likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) If they #bringbackcapitalism then there would be incentive to work outisde of South East. Manftrs would set up in NE - lower costs etc. All the get up and go types are in SE. Gross generalisation I know but you know what I mean. Also, manufacturers would set up full stop with #bringbackcapitalism Absolutely no incentive to do so while everything so b.....y expensive and global economy slowing down rapidly with ZIRP QE EU BankBailOuts etc Edited September 28, 2015 by Killer Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Idiot comment of the day goes to Roy RIckhuss: http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/business-news/ssi-serious-concerns-how-mothballing-10147647 '"These vital industrial skills have been passed down through the generations and must not be lost.' Steel is a capital intensive industry. Labour's input is shovel that, press that button, dont stand in the way. What's he trying to claim - 1000s of steel workers who have learned intricate steel whittling skills, passed down by their Granddad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It's a similar sort of argument that the bankers used to bail out and retain parts of their "industry". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Idiot comment of the day goes to Roy RIckhuss: http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/business-news/ssi-serious-concerns-how-mothballing-10147647 '"These vital industrial skills have been passed down through the generations and must not be lost.' Steel is a capital intensive industry. Labour's input is shovel that, press that button, dont stand in the way. What's he trying to claim - 1000s of steel workers who have learned intricate steel whittling skills, passed down by their Granddad? Again, as for Aberdeen (and house prices in this case would be a fraction of Aberdeen for a basic family house?) ordinary Joe has to bank a cash cushion for these events, and be ready to re-train/move/think outside the box to keep ahead of this economy. If they were making good money, and there is wailing and shouting about food banks to follow, I am not going to be too sympathetic. Of course the real culprit is the bankers wasteland that passes for an economy nowadays, but when the money is there we have to save and be ready to change course at any time nowadays. Edited September 28, 2015 by dances with sheeple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 They need to master the act of ending peoples contracts.Most factories in the north east end peoples contracts Christmas Eve now. The government spends £11.7 billion on foreign aid every year yet the north east has been on its knees since the early 80s. The government's only plan seems to be to get the Chinese to invest all their cash into London property that we give them for their manufactured goods.Then crash London property to cancel out the money. The northern powerhouse seems very dodgy doesnt it.Northern workhouse is more likely. I can't understand why it has to be like this though. My estimation (not based on much admittedly) is that for a foreign manufacturer the cost base in the North East of England won't be too far in excess of India/China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Idiot comment of the day goes to Roy RIckhuss: http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/business/business-news/ssi-serious-concerns-how-mothballing-10147647 '"These vital industrial skills have been passed down through the generations and must not be lost.' Steel is a capital intensive industry. Labour's input is shovel that, press that button, dont stand in the way. What's he trying to claim - 1000s of steel workers who have learned intricate steel whittling skills, passed down by their Granddad? He is right. Manufacturing can't just be switched on and off. On an organisational level it genuinely is a case of not what you do, but how you do it and that takes time to learn. That's our only edge over the emerging economies right now, our engineering and manufacturing heritage. It will be gone in a generation though. Edited September 28, 2015 by frozen_out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Global economy and competition and changes in the economy. The scale of predominant technologies is rapidly falling. [..]As the economy switches from processing raw materials to processing information, the size of the operations required to handle the tasks is tumbling. The most productive steel mills no longer employ tens of thousands of people as they did in 1950. [..]In 1950, seven of ten workers worked with their hands. Now the ratio is rapidly falling. [......]In fact, just as the United States and Western Europe appeared to pull back from the brink of trade war, steel companies in the EC were celebrating victory in an eighteen-month campaign to bar imports of seamless steel tubing from former Communist countries on grounds they were being "dumped." -Davidson (1992) Edited September 28, 2015 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I can't understand why it has to be like this though. My estimation (not based on much admittedly) is that for a foreign manufacturer the cost base in the North East of England won't be too far in excess of India/China. Labour costs are a relative small part of the bill. Most of it is energy cost. It helps to be near a port too. Steel and the like will go to places where there is free energy (Iceland for Alu smelting) or government subbed Nuclear power stations, where they ignore the local population's protests - China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 He is right. Manufacturing can't just be switched on and off. On an organisational level it genuinely is a case of not what you do, but how you do it and that takes time to learn. That's our only edge over the emerging economies right now, our engineering and manufacturing heritage. It will be gone in a generation though. Not really. The capital invest is hard to move - good luck on shifting the Redcar plant to the far east. The labour i.e. soft stuff - is easy to move for steel processing. If this was Rolls Royce or Mini products than you would be right. The level of training to work in a modern steel plant is not high. Redcar produces fungible slabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Labour costs are a relative small part of the bill. Most of it is energy cost. It helps to be near a port too. Steel and the like will go to places where there is free energy (Iceland for Alu smelting) or government subbed Nuclear power stations, where they ignore the local population's protests - China. The last the Chinese need is another steel plant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Redcar produces fungible slabs I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere about the ladyfolks of Redcar, but this is too serious a topic for jokes. Ironically there was good money to made in the eighties, decommissioning or demolishing old plant. My Dad did quite a bit of it. Hard to know if there is anything in Redcar worth shipping off somewhere else, but doubtless somebody is already bidding for the job of razing the place to the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Not really. The capital invest is hard to move - good luck on shifting the Redcar plant to the far east. The labour i.e. soft stuff - is easy to move for steel processing. If this was Rolls Royce or Mini products than you would be right. The level of training to work in a modern steel plant is not high. Redcar produces fungible slabs China managed to shift a steel plant from Dortmund http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2231403.stm , that was a while ago though, I doubt if anyone will be moving the Redcar plant as there is currently over capacity in the industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) There are still plenty of places around the world with very low wages/house prices to enable them to compete - even a fraction of China's. It would be typical of Cameron (etc) to ship the Redcar plant free to somewhere like that and after a few years those new steel producers could be setting house prices afresh in London and consequently even in Redcar. Edited September 28, 2015 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Not really. The capital invest is hard to move - good luck on shifting the Redcar plant to the far east. The labour i.e. soft stuff - is easy to move for steel processing. If this was Rolls Royce or Mini products than you would be right. The level of training to work in a modern steel plant is not high. Redcar produces fungible slabs We'll have to agree to disagree. In a similar way to labour being a relatively small cost of operation, the training of an individual is a relatively small cog in the manufacturing wheel. It's more about behaviour on an organisational level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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