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Is A Degree Worth It


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Viterbi, I see you still won't be drawn outside your comfort zone - IT and electrical engineering. Your approach is the engineer's; here's a problem, let's find an optimum solution with the tools we have available. Who do you think invents the tools, and how do you think they get to do that?

At the moment we're just going round in circles. Yes, you can learn programming/algorithms/a lot of mathematics from a book. So what? Who wrote the books? Where did they get their knowledge from? You're still talking about vocational training. Conceptually vocational training is easy.

A degree in electronic engineering is education and not training and has always been the case. Electronic engineering as a subject is less fundamental than pure maths, theoretical physics, and computer science, but an electronic engineering degree is in no way vocational. It is academic and covers lots of heavyweight theory.

Universities are the backdrop against which these activities take place. That alone makes universities worthwhile. As to whether or not a degree is worth it, if you want to participate in these sorts of activities of course it is, because otherwise in the 21st century you're not going to get started. As to whether it's worth it otherise, BM is dead right; an awful lot of employers will chuck your job application straight in the bin unless you have a degree. And yes, I had the experience of seeing people less bright than me promoted over my head some years ago. So I went and got a degree. Well, three of them actually...

This is just the attitude of employers. They like convenience and qualifications are seen as a convenience measure to them. If someone was self educated then an employer would have to give them a long and testing inverview to find out whether they really know and understand their stuff. The emphasis at the moment is on degrees and the take-up of many vocational courses have suffered as a result. The obsession with employers wanting degrees is one reason why there are so many noddy degrees around today. 15 or so years ago universities offered computer science degrees but no IT degrees. If you wanted to study IT then you took a vocational course at a college or polytechnic.

I can't really understand why a degree is essential to design a piece of electronic equipment or write software. There are other qualifications available in these disciplines that are more practical and vocational than most proper degree courses. The trouble is employers look down on them.

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Don't forget the 'opportunity cost' of the thing you would be doing if you didn't go to university, i.e. working.

No university, then no need to do A-Levels = 5 or 6 years of income. Even at a low salary that's £75k ish vs £20k+ student debt. Not a bad difference. All to earn 3 grand more than the Data Input Monkeys (half of whom are graduates anyway).

No so sure it's worth it these days.

It's more prizes for all, than opportunity for all. I think most of todays grads are bing sold a lemon.

Didn't loose an opportunity. I worked full time when I was studying. Secretarial. There were no other options. The only opportunities I have really lost is because I don't lie in job interviews (can't quite bring myself to). What this means is that less competent people than myself get more competent positions and I have to work for them and cover their butts when they can't do the job! (not now, but definitely in the past). The real opportunities in this world reside in confidence and/or unconsious incompetence and/or a good case of sociopathy.

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Didn't loose an opportunity. I worked full time when I was studying. Secretarial. There were no other options. The only opportunities I have really lost is because I don't lie in job interviews (can't quite bring myself to). What this means is that less competent people than myself get more competent positions and I have to work for them and cover their butts when they can't do the job! (not now, but definitely in the past). The real opportunities in this world reside in confidence and/or unconsious incompetence and/or a good case of sociopathy.

I reckon I could have done my degree in 18 months, rather than 3 years (3 months off each Summer, 1 month Christmas, 1 month Easter, 1 Month 'revising')

I'm not sure University is culturally enlightening nor do I think it's a good learning ground for living. For most new students I speak to, a modern degree involves:

* watching hours of daytime TV

* recovering from hangovers

* shagging

* 4 hours of lectures

* experimenting with drugs

* living very close to poverty

Post Graduation:

* temp work

* being horribly identikit

* babbling on about their life experiences

As for our Business Grads, what they lack in talent they definitely make up for in conceit.

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I think often today a degree is not worth it - for many, any advantage gained from having attained a higher level of education is offset by the loss of earnings over several years, plus the accumulated debt.

Loss of earnings used to be able to be made up by higher paid jobs in the years after graduation and throughout the graduate's career, but now that degrees are so ubiquitous, this is much harder, and the debt is a real drawback now.

But for those useful degrees from decent places, the benefits will still outweigh the costs.

Having ramped up student figures for so long now for political ends, while reducing the value of our O, GCSE, and A level qualifications to enable very average student entry into university, making polys into unis, etc etc, it's no wonder the govt will not subsidise students as they used to. And nor should / can they given the scenario that exists now.

Still, getting a degree will still be worth it for those who choose sensibly, and are of above average intelligence.

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I hope your spelling was better- you always spell lose as loose.

Clue: Loose is the opposite of tight and rhymes with moose

Lose is the opposite of win, and rhymes with booze.

No. My spelling was WORSE! But the old Word Perfect had a demon spell checker. It actually taught me to spell as well as I do ;) Much better than Word. Anyway you spell Plasmodium Falciparum :P ... Back in the days before political correctness took its full meaning, they had the choice of a good speller but they thought it would be 'amusing to have an intellegent secretary' instead.

And anyway, I always have a conundrum over that word :o

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Except I suspect that if you knew what I was saying you would have responded P. Falciparum

Well I do actually, being a Latin scholar.

I suspect it's a type of blood sucking insect. Mosquito?. Flea?

Degree's aint as hot as they used to be .. probably to do with global warming

Well.. atleast i tried :lol:

I bet Dr.Bubb has more degrees than a thermometer.

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Well I do actually, being a Latin scholar.

I suspect it's a type of blood sucking insect. Mosquito?. Flea?

I bet Dr.Bubb has more degrees than a thermometer.

From what i can gather its malaria (the worst type) as transmitted by the female mossie, Ms Liz what do you *do* that needs you to know that?

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From what i can gather its malaria (the worst type) as transmitted by the female mossie, Ms Liz what do you *do* that needs you to know that?

Ah, maybe I deduced right. Falciparum is Latin for Hook, and Plasmum, of course is to do with the blood i.e. hooking into the blood = mosquito?

Edited by Casual Observer
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From what i can gather its malaria (the worst type) as transmitted by the female mossie, Ms Liz what do you *do* that needs you to know that?

Chuz. I don't need to know it anymore. Its just one of those things one never forgets!!! By day I worked in as a secretary in a university biology department. Spent hours typing that kind of thing (congratulations on the knowledge quiz) By night I studied all the things that people on this site seem to think particularly pointless (except for basketweaving. I feel I have a gap in my education on that score. Only because the module wasn't offered :P )

Ah, maybe I deduced right. Falciparum is Latin for Hook, and Plasmum, of course is to do with the blood i.e. hooking into the blood = mosquito?

No the hook is the parasite hooking into the red blood cell. (they have also developed nasty little pumps to pump out whatever poison is administered. Hence the only thing that really works is so toxic that it has a limited tendency to induce schitzophrenia in the host :o Pretty impressive for a one cell organism? But clearly they never incorporated the pump into the latin naming for the new variant.)

Talking of naming protocols for animals. Is there a latin name for real estate agents?

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I didnt realise malaria was so cool...

Paraphrase

Anopheline Mosquito releases sporozoites from its salivary gland when its muching on you

They enter into the hepatocytes (liver cells) and become p. falciparum.

Over the next 2 weeks they reproduce asexually which creates tens of thousands of merozoites.

The merozoites burts from the hepatocytes (the liver cells)

The merozoites then invade your erythrocytes (red blood cells to me and you)

The merozoites then reproduce again to form a schizont (a stage of asexual reproduction within a red cell) with 12 - 16 merozoites

The erythrocytes (your red blood cells remember) then rupture and the merozoites released are free to invade other erythrocytes.

Not all the merozoites form schizonts, some form gametocytes, which then get sucked up by the mosquito.

The male gametocytes do some jiggery pokery and produce microgamtes which fertalizes the female macrogamtes to form ookinete.

The ookinete form a cyst inventivly named an oocyst.

The oocyst then pops which releases loads of sporozoites.

The sporozoites then make thier way to the salivary gland and wallah the cycle continues.

The bad stuff that happens i.e the fever and shakes, chills ,when the infectied red blood cells are systematically bursting.

F*ck me, i thought you just got ill :lol:

EDITED:

Well you try and type that without having to go back and correct a spelling mistake

Edited by theChuz
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How about Plasmum Falciparum?!

There catchprase could be: Ad nocendum potentes sumus.

:lol: i like that, gonna have to try and remember it.

Trying to come up with other decent maxims cause anything said in latin sounds cool.

The IPODS of today: Aliis si licet, tibi non licet

and one for the nuBTL'rs to take heed of: Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.

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They government should turn all arts and theoretical science subjects into correspondence courses as you only need to be at a physical university if you require specialist equipment.

What made you think the arts would not require a built learning environment?

Like a performing arts student might need access to a theatre/performance space and the opportunity to work as part of a group. Music students might need access to similar performance venues and recording facilities. Most visual arts subjects are very messy and require access to specialised equipment.

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Oxford Cambridge YES

Red brick YES (unless a total doss course)

Polly NO (unless heavily vocational)

New Labour: we must all study so there is a huge supply of graduates, therefore having a degree is nothing special so it does not help you get a job, therefore you may as well not have one.

Oh and buy the way, it will cost you £3k per annum too.

So that will be a 20k debt at the end of University and the same job. Thanks

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Oxford Cambridge YES

Red brick YES (unless a total doss course)

Polly NO (unless heavily vocational)

New Labour: we must all study so there is a huge supply of graduates, therefore having a degree is nothing special so it does not help you get a job, therefore you may as well not have one.

Oh and buy the way, it will cost you £3k per annum too.

So that will be a 20k debt at the end of University and the same job. Thanks

well, I just slated you on the other thread, but you're on the money here.

perhaps I should apologise

:unsure:

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New Labour: we must all study so there is a huge supply of graduates, therefore having a degree is nothing special so it does not help you get a job, therefore you may as well not have one.

Oh and buy the way, it will cost you £3k per annum too.

So that will be a 20k debt at the end of University and the same job. Thanks

Try getting a good career without one.

Edited by Casual Observer
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so we're borrowing in order to stand still? :o

No, I think that if you're intelligent enough (probably top 25% of country) and choose the right degree at a good university then the loan is a very good investment.

Earlier on in this thread I spoke about my son, who, 3 years after graduating, is on 43k pa. with lots of headroom still.

He does not regret investing in himself, and he has friends who didn't go to Uni who are on 22k ish who are probably at the peak of their earnings.

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  • 442 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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