interestrateripoff Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) That's all Labour needs! Now ex-Greek finance minister Varoufakis offers to help Corbyn draw up his economic blueprint Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis today offered to help new Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn draw up his economic blueprint. Mr Corbyn stormed to a landslide victory on the back of his hardline opposition to spending cuts and call for billions more in borrowing. He has claimed Labour should learn from the lessons in Greece, where the leftwing Syriza took power earlier this year on a promise to end austerity and stand up to Brussels. Love this Wail headline, attempting to terrify the voters with one of the few politicians who has some understanding of macroeconomics. The choice could be a economic policy by George Osborne or Varoufakis. And we are meant to tremble at one drawn up by the Greek rather than a clueless idiot. Edited September 13, 2015 by interestrateripoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darwin Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 It is sometimes said that “Politics is show business for ugly people”. Well, they're doing a grand job of entertaining me at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 That's all Labour needs! Now ex-Greek finance minister Varoufakis offers to help Corbyn draw up his economic blueprint Former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis today offered to help new Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn draw up his economic blueprint. Mr Corbyn stormed to a landslide victory on the back of his hardline opposition to spending cuts and call for billions more in borrowing. He has claimed Labour should learn from the lessons in Greece, where the leftwing Syriza took power earlier this year on a promise to end austerity and stand up to Brussels. Love this Wail headline, attempting to terrify the voters with one of the few politicians who has some understanding of macroeconomics. The choice could be a economic policy by George Osborne or Varoufakis. And we are meant to tremble at one drawn up by the Greek rather than a clueless idiot. He is quite a capable economist (some say brilliant). Certainly left-wing / socialist(ish)*. Possibly (I'd say certainly) better than anyone else in the Labour party. Likely better than anyone in the Conservatives (but certainly more capable than Osborne - but they'll have different goals). He is tarred with the brush of Greece's economic failure, but he didn't actually create the mess they were (and are) in - you might argue that his approach only made things worse, but difficult to really know. If the Labour party followed his advice (presumably a variety of debt jubilee) the UK might get crippled by the international finance community, but given JC that would probably happen anyway - so we're really arguing about how bad, for how long, and how good (bad) would the economy be afterwards. * I'm not sure what he is - certainly Post-Keynesian, probably not coordinate-socialist. Probably not Austrian ether. I think he calls himself a libertarian Marxist, whatever that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Has anyone read any of YV's books - any recommendations? I thought of getting 'the global minotaur' - is that okay? Edit - He's got a free e-book - 'Europe after the Minotaur' - I've downloaded it and will see how it goes. Edited September 13, 2015 by dgul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Not a lot of people know he was the former economist in residence for Valve (games/software company) he appeared on this episode of econtalk to discuss it, well before his recent fame http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.html That said, he made a right pigs ear of the Greek economy, we haven't heard about Greece for a month or 2 but I don't imagine the conditions on the ground are much fun. Edited September 13, 2015 by reddog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Not a lot of people know he was the former economist in residence for Valve (games/software company) he appeared on this episode of econtalk to discuss it, well before his recent fame http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.html That said, he made a right pigs ear of the Greek economy, we haven't heard about Greece for a month or 2 but I don't imagine the conditions on the ground are much fun. I think the Greek economy was f*cked long before Syriza got elected. It is hard to believe his 6 months in office haggling with the Troika made much difference since the controls had been set to the heart of the sun long before he arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 That said, he made a right pigs ear of the Greek economy, we haven't heard about Greece for a month or 2 but I don't imagine the conditions on the ground are much fun. The pig's ear was made well before YV came along. It is difficult to know if he made it any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renting til I die Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 He is quite a capable economist (some say brilliant). Certainly left-wing / socialist(ish)*. Possibly (I'd say certainly) better than anyone else in the Labour party. Likely better than anyone in the Conservatives (but certainly more capable than Osborne - but they'll have different goals). He is tarred with the brush of Greece's economic failure, but he didn't actually create the mess they were (and are) in - you might argue that his approach only made things worse, but difficult to really know. If the Labour party followed his advice (presumably a variety of debt jubilee) the UK might get crippled by the international finance community, but given JC that would probably happen anyway - so we're really arguing about how bad, for how long, and how good (bad) would the economy be afterwards. * I'm not sure what he is - certainly Post-Keynesian, probably not coordinate-socialist. Probably not Austrian ether. I think he calls himself a libertarian Marxist, whatever that means. I agree that he is great. He certainly helped in changing my economic thinking. Corbyn should definitely take him up on his offer and it would be fun if we ever saw him go head to head with Osborne! Has anyone read any of YV's books - any recommendations? I thought of getting 'the global minotaur' - is that okay? Yes, read it! There are also lots of good interviews and speeches on youtube, here is a couple of my faves; a brief interview and the keynote speech "Confessions of an Erratic Marxist". I think the only reason he wasn't able to come to some sort of agreement with the eurozone and help the Greek economy was because none of the other financial ministers have his level of understanding on our current dilemma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) After the next general election VF might easily be negotiating with the Troika on Britain's behalf - and it would be good to see him asking questions during PMQT. Edited September 13, 2015 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 If the Labour party followed his advice (presumably a variety of debt jubilee) the UK might get crippled by the international finance community, but given JC that would probably happen anyway - so we're really arguing about how bad, for how long, and how good (bad) would the economy be afterwards. Great. Not another wipe away the mortgages / wipe out renter savers, is it? For that, the houses have to go too. Stripped of ownership. Not left happy with your house(s). Do you like it as much now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikejsudjek Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) To get rid of the debt you have to kill the monster that creates it. People's quantative easing directly challenges the 'divine right' of the private banking criminal cartel to create money out of thin air and then charge interest on it. Debt is being used as a means of control for the 'elite', along with international treaties and the attempt to erode national sovereignty. Varoufakis knows this all too well. Edited September 13, 2015 by sikejsudjek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 To get rid of the debt you have to kill the monster that creates it. People's quantative easing directly challenges the 'divine right' of the private banking criminal cartel to create money out of thin air and then charge interest on it. It becomes real when 'the victims' approach lenders for the debt. They're the ones paying £500K for South Manchester semis. No debt jubilee to leave them with free houses. No debt jubilee to leave BTLers outright owners with their houses either. Want to see the monsters... I'm being told great time to take on £350K mortgage to buy £450K house in North Yorkshire, and making a mistake staying out of the market. If they are correct they don't need your debt forgiveness. If they are wrong it's not another bailout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Great. Not another wipe away the mortgages / wipe out renter savers, is it? For that, the houses have to go too. Stripped of ownership. Not left happy with your house(s). Do you like it as much now? None of it suits me. I just try to keep on working, try to get a holiday once a year, that sort of thing. Doesn't mean that I can't try to analyse what is going on and what the outcomes might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 If the Labour party followed his advice (presumably a variety of debt jubilee) the UK might get crippled by the international finance community, but given JC that would probably happen anyway - so we're really arguing about how bad, for how long, and how good (bad) would the economy be afterwards. Well no one dragged the borrowers into the banks to outbid me for housing, and I've positioned for many years for a HPC. If happy solution is debt wipeaway, and renters-savers wiped out, left in twice as bad a position as today, paid tuppnybit in the New Order workplace (crippled by financial community), I will fight it. It's no good to me to have all the houses without debt, savings wiped away, and paid tuppnybit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyres Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 couldn't think of anyone better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikejsudjek Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Well no one dragged the borrowers into the banks to outbid me for housing, and I've positioned for many years for a HPC. If happy solution is debt wipeaway, and renters-savers wiped out, left in twice as bad a position as today, paid tuppnybit in the New Order workplace (crippled by financial community), I will fight it. It's no good to me to have all the houses without debt, savings wiped away, and paid tuppnybit. That's not how a debt write off would work - Steve Keen's idea is that everyone is given a sum of money - but those in debt have to pay back their debts first. However PQE is not a debt jubilee. It replaces private finance initiative as I understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Interesting that Syriza is almost the same word as Syria, with a little Z in there. No idea what significance that adds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Interesting that Syriza is almost the same word as Syria, with a little Z in there. No idea what significance that adds. 'Born in the UAE' is one of my favourite Springsteen songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meerkat Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) That's all Labour needs! Now ex-Greek finance minister Varoufakis offers to help Corbyn draw up his economic blueprint "Mr Corbyn ... call for billions more in borrowing." You guys are helpless... austerity - what's the definition of it? More borrowing and profligacy of pigs at the expense of sheep, donkeys and horses? Edited September 14, 2015 by Meerkat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meerkat Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 To get rid of the debt you have to kill the monster that creates it. People's quantative easing directly challenges the 'divine right' of the private banking criminal cartel to create money out of thin air and then charge interest on it. Why won't you entertain an idea of something that may actually deliver some stability. One cartel for another? Thank you vm. Why not eliminate any subjective means of money creation altogether? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmonitor Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 To get rid of the debt you have to kill the monster that creates it. People's quantative easing directly challenges the 'divine right' of the private banking criminal cartel to create money out of thin air and then charge interest on it. Debt is being used as a means of control for the 'elite', along with international treaties and the attempt to erode national sovereignty. Varoufakis knows this all too well. To get rid of the debt you must first wipe out the savings. Not all savings are ill gotten, my partner being a case in point, 35 years of slog at work and building socety deposits. Indeed the only house she bought incurred a loss, and our present one wouldn't be exactly in profit since 2012. Wouldn't stop a c%%t like Corbyn wiping her out 1970s style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) However PQE is not a debt jubilee. It replaces private finance initiative as I understand it. Of course, it wouldn't stop there. Now that building everything you want is ... um ... free, just go ahead with gold-plating the entire new Palace of Westminster. [edit to add] Which is, essentially, the same thing that turned PFI from a nice idea to (in some areas) an out-of-control problem. This just puts a rocket-booster under the whole problem part of it. Edited September 14, 2015 by porca misèria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 FWIW, it seems Varoufakis is indeed good friends with a former UK chancellor Norman Lamont. Why is the Wail quite so hysterical as indicated by IRRO here? Perhaps it (or he) is actually trying to stir peoples inner contrarians into reassessing Corbyn in a more favourable light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikejsudjek Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 To get rid of the debt you must first wipe out the savings. Not all savings are ill gotten, my partner being a case in point, 35 years of slog at work and building socety deposits. Indeed the only house she bought incurred a loss, and our present one wouldn't be exactly in profit since 2012. Wouldn't stop a c%%t like Corbyn wiping her out 1970s style. No you don't We are not running the gold standard. You don't understand the money system. Debt is created largely out of thin air. Read the quotes from central bankers in my signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assume The Opposite Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 To get rid of the debt you must first wipe out the savings. Not all savings are ill gotten, my partner being a case in point, 35 years of slog at work and building socety deposits. Indeed the only house she bought incurred a loss, and our present one wouldn't be exactly in profit since 2012. Wouldn't stop a c%%t like Corbyn wiping her out 1970s style. Debt is created before savings. The BoE stated this in their working paper in May. The ILF model of savings before investment is completely wrong. Debt and savings are the same side of the coin. If you want savings but no debt you're going to have to start a whole new monetary system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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