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jpidding

Totally Off Topic, But A Must For Us "free Thinkers"

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A couple of years ago I saw the "spot the missing plane" series of pics from the Pentagon on the day of the 911 attacks. Sent it to a few friends and got a lot of amazed replies and one outraged "how could you accuse our beloved US government of this....don't you know that planes (ie B575) vapourise when they hit super-duper pentagon concrete!!!" from an otherwise rational and very inteligent American friend.

Recently I came across question911.com.

I really urge you to go to the downloads tab at the top, then follow the instructions and go to the 2 "loose change" videos. Download them and watch them both (1/2 hr each).

There are also further down detailled vidoes made by other people who look into the technical aspects very closely under the "painful deceptions" filenames.

I feel that it is our duty to watch these and spread the word to our friends and family.

I know its totally off topic, but it does show the lengths that supposedly democratic governments are prepared to go to to achieve their goals. Makes the manipulation by Gordon Brown for his own political ends seem insignificant by comparison. But also bear in mind what close links our good ol' Tony has with George W.

For more revelations watch Fahrenheit 911 and see Bush's face when the news of the attacks was given to him. No surprise, but instead a look which says to me "OMG what have we done". You can download this off Kazaa or similar P2P applications.

I's appreciate your comments when you watch the films.

James.

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I had a quick look at your link, and some other sites.

The style and nature of the questions asked and the conspiracy postulated is very reminiscent of the sites claiming that man never landed on the moon.

With a little bit of thought I was able to explain several of the 'mysteries' on the site, and I suspect that, as with the moon conspiracy, there are simple explanations for all of them.

It is far more implausible that a vast conspiracy could flawlessly carry out an act like this, particularly if organised by govt/military/big business (all notoriously inefficient and information-leaky), than that it was what it appears to be - a terrorist act that succeeded far beyond the expectations of the perpetrators.

Since we have never seen an act like this before, we have no way of knowing what phenomena are 'normal' and what should be regarded as suspicious.

It's great that people investigate these things, and raise questions, but I see nothing to convince me that a conspiracy took place.

Remember; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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The style and nature of the questions asked and the conspiracy postulated is very reminiscent of the sites claiming that man never landed on the moon.

Prove they did?

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I had a quick look at your link, and some other sites.

The style and nature of the questions asked and the conspiracy postulated is very reminiscent of the sites claiming that man never landed on the moon.

With a little bit of thought I was able to explain several of the 'mysteries' on the site, and I suspect that, as with the moon conspiracy, there are simple explanations for all of them.

It is far more implausible that a vast conspiracy could flawlessly carry out an act like this, particularly if organised by govt/military/big business (all notoriously inefficient and information-leaky), than that it was what it appears to be - a terrorist act that succeeded far beyond the expectations of the perpetrators.

Since we have never seen an act like this before, we have no way of knowing what phenomena are 'normal' and what should be regarded as suspicious.

It's great that people investigate these things, and raise questions, but I see nothing to convince me that a conspiracy took place.

Remember; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I dont think its a vast conspiracy, they have just been economical and imaginative with the the truth. There are just too many problems with the official version of events. Frankly, who can ever trust politicians not to lie?

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Remember; extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

You are not kidding . . . .

Within 8hrs of Gordon Brown getting a 'confidence' rating of 4% (down from 41%) the UK gets the biggest 'oil disaster' in peacetime Europe.

The news about Brown was 'conveniently' erased from the media headlines and public eye! :ph34r:

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Please, please just watch the films before you comment!

How can you comment before you at least see the films. Hopefully after this thread has been on the main forum for a while we can discuss the details in the off topic forum.

Briefly on the subject of the moon landings, I believe that they DID go to the moon, but the embelished it with photos taken after the event to capture the imagination of the public.

Don't think that the US govt and/or CIA couldn't pull it off. If a coutry can assasinate its own president and give you an official version of events that cleary doesn't stack up (ie lone shooter, magic bullet etc), then losing a few thousand ordinary people to create enough public fear to go to war is no long stretch of the imagination.

Please, download and watch tonight then post tomorrow.

James.

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Anyone who still believes the Apollo missions I suggest you Google "Lunacorp".

"LunaCorp created several projects that engaged the public's interest in space, and that were aimed at enabling direct participation in space exploration. It was founded in 1989 and was dissolved in 2003 after working with NASA, the Russian space agency and commercial sponsors on visionary projects. The company's former president, David Gump, is now CEO of Transformational Space Corp.

"

http://www.moonmovie.com/moonmovie/

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Anyone who still believes the Apollo missions I suggest you Google "Lunacorp".

"LunaCorp created several projects that engaged the public's interest in space, and that were aimed at enabling direct participation in space exploration. It was founded in 1989 and was dissolved in 2003 after working with NASA, the Russian space agency and commercial sponsors on visionary projects. The company's former president, David Gump, is now CEO of Transformational Space Corp.

"

http://www.moonmovie.com/moonmovie/

Sunday Sport grade twaddle

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Watch the clips "astronauts gone wild" and "press conference"

http://216.26.168.193/moonmovie/store.asp

"The Space Shuttle, so far, has killed fourteen people, merely trying to attain an orbit about two hundred fifty miles above the Earth. How is it then, that a third of a century ago, with less computing power in the entire rocket than in a present day twenty dollar Wal-Mart watch, NASA claims to have gone 100,000% farther, six different times between 1969 and 1972, landing on another celestial body and then returning, without ever killing anyone? How could they have powered air conditioning in two hundred fifty degree heat for three days with batteries? Why is the "second round" of "returning" to the moon estimated to be no earlier than half a century after the first? (Would there be a fifty-year span between the first and second trips across the Atlantic in an airplane?)

If the moon landings were, as we believe, a government deception, then George Orwell's comment, "whoever controls the past, controls the future" is a scary wakeup call to insist that our government reform to the truthfulness of our founding father "who could not tell a lie." Otherwise, the powers that be will continue their addiction to deception and we all will be worse off for it."

Sunday Sport grade twaddle

If you believe it happened then you're living in Sunday Sport land.

The whole thing is total fantasy. It couldn't be done then and it can't be done now.

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Watch the clips "astronauts gone wild" and "press conference"

http://216.26.168.193/moonmovie/store.asp

"The Space Shuttle, so far, has killed fourteen people, merely trying to attain an orbit about two hundred fifty miles above the Earth. How is it then, that a third of a century ago, with less computing power in the entire rocket than in a present day twenty dollar Wal-Mart watch, NASA claims to have gone 100,000% farther, six different times between 1969 and 1972, landing on another celestial body and then returning, without ever killing anyone? How could they have powered air conditioning in two hundred fifty degree heat for three days with batteries? Why is the "second round" of "returning" to the moon estimated to be no earlier than half a century after the first? (Would there be a fifty-year span between the first and second trips across the Atlantic in an airplane?)

If the moon landings were, as we believe, a government deception, then George Orwell's comment, "whoever controls the past, controls the future" is a scary wakeup call to insist that our government reform to the truthfulness of our founding father "who could not tell a lie." Otherwise, the powers that be will continue their addiction to deception and we all will be worse off for it."

If you believe it happened then you're living in Sunday Sport land.

The whole thing is total fantasy. It couldn't be done then and it can't be done now.

heres a couple of links as a counterpoint:

http://www.clavius.org/envheat.html

http://history.nasa.gov/afj/loressay.htm

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Sunday Sport grade twaddle

Look at it for what it is. You have been done, stitched up! What else is a lie, 9/11?

This topic is for free thinkers btw.

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"Why is the "second round" of "returning" to the moon estimated to be no earlier than half a century after the first?"

Maybe because once its been done, its been done. For various reasons NASA did not need to persure returning to the moon at that time. They had 'won the space race' and studied the moon as they planned.

I climbed snowdon when I was a teenager, havent done it since!

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They took a car to the moon and had a little drive around!

Yeah right!

I've often thought that one was a corker mate! Just lick a banana split buggie!!!

How the feck did they get it there, and WHY???

Something dont add up.

J.

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For those who don't believe man went to moon, I urge you to read the following website:

http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/

It debunks all the conspiracy theories I've ever heard about it.

I don't think it mentions the buggy, but it's quite easy to make it all fold up. Before anyone asks, it had wire wheels because pneumatic tyres would simply have exploded in the near vacuum on the moon.

As someone interested in photography I fully agree with the analysis of the photographic evidence in the above site.

As for positive proof that man _has_ gone to the moon, which I think dom was asking for, the website mentions a mirror device placed on the moon which is regularly used to reflect a laser off and back to earth to measure the exact distance (which varies with the moon's orbit). Sure, this could have been placed robotically, but some of you seem to even doubt that anything has been there.

Others ask "Why don't we point hubble at it and see where they landed?". The answer is that the landers are simply too small to see.

I believe that there are new telescopes or orbiters that might actually be able to see the landing sites, but regardless I think that it's quite clear that man has been to the moon, even in 1969. Trajectories are orbits are quite straightforward to calculate, requiring little processing power. Many people assume that huge computing complexity is required. It's simply not.

EDIT: correction to Hubble part above.

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Whilst I too am very interested in the moon conspiracy theory I urge everyone not to turn this thread into a repository for all conspiracy theory discussion.

The term "conspiracy theory" has come to imply "nutters" and paraniod delusional unbalanced individuals. (Thanks for your constructive comment Rockdoctor, have you actually WATCHED the films???)

Please watched the films with a balanced open perspective.

Remember the US and UK govt officials saying "we KNOW they have WMD's". That was one blatent lie that cannot be refruted (SP?)....and we went to WAR over it!

Listen to the tripe that Bush spouts "This great nation of ours was built upon the ideals of equality to all men" (I'm quoting from memory, but this what he said at his speach upon re-election). Er-hum....excuse me what about the massacre of the Indians, what about slavery of the blacks, what about white cops beating a black man with battons on video and getting away with it???

I digress....watch the fecking videos and then either come up with constructive comment or s0d off!

This stuff affects our lives now and the things that are done in our name.

It is too important to be shrugged off as "nutter" stuff.

James.

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I tried to watch the videos but the site had used up its bandwidth quota for the day.

Beyond that I refuse to waste my time on such junk.

When the claims were being made about WMD they were so transparently false they were being debunked while they were being made. Very few people genuinely thought that Iraq was much of a threat, but a lot of people decided that it didn't matter all that much as long as we took out an unpleasant dictator.

The WMD argument WEAKENS claims of govt conspiracy over 911 because the WMD conspiracy was such an abject failure, despite using the full resources of the govt and the intelligence community.

If they couldn't fool us over WMD, why do people think they could have done it on any other 'conspiracy'?

I've worked in big private organisations. They can barely do their ordinary business without screwing it up, let alone complex long-running frauds.

I don't believe govt bodies are more efficient at ANYTHING than private enterprise, so the idea that they would get away with what is claimed here is laughable.

Go back to the conspiracy sites and stop wasting our time.

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I tried to watch the videos but the site had used up its bandwidth quota for the day.

Beyond that I refuse to waste my time on such junk.

Nice excuse.

How can anyone comment unless they'd seen the film. You seem to be content to keep commenting regardless.

Here's a nugget for you:

Did you know that building 7 (49 floors) also collapsed on sep 11th? It was 300 ft from the twin towers and supposidly collapsed due to fire caused by debris igniting a diesel fuel store. The building was of steel frame construction. Steel melts at around 1400 deg C. In the best environment, diesel burns at 800 deg C. Only 2 steel framed buildings in history have collapsed through fire before building 7....the twin towers. There are numerous examples of skyscrapers buring for many hours without collapse.

Watch the films. I'm sure if it was a site with Paris Hilton getting naked you would bother to find a time when the download was available. This is slightly more important.

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Tell me, do you believe in flying saucers?

Non sequitur

Webster's 9th Collegiate Dictionary definition of non sequitur is, "a statement that does not follow logically from anything previously said".

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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