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The Preacherman

Towns The Uk Property Boom Forgot: ‘We Sold At A £410,000 Loss’

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A reminder for those living in the Southeast that rest of the UK property market is still in the doldrums.

Towns the UK property boom forgot: We sold at a £410,000 loss

Buyers in Newry, Northern Ireland, lost it all after believing prices would keep rising while other UK towns such as Ferryhill and Conwy are also suffering

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/towns-property-boom-forgot-house-prices-newry-conwy-ferryhill

Edited by The Preacherman

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By doldrums it must mean ******** outrageously treble-bubble expensive in my interest areas of South Manchester and Cheshire.

Interesting article though. Victims eh. They outbid others, with their forever HPI.

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Yeah my non-South East area is also supposedly 'in the doldrums' and are prices are supposedly around 12-15% below 2007/8 peak according to the LR... yet every single property for sale has an asking at least equivalent to if not in excess of 2007/8 prices.

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Buyers happily pushing and falling over one another to buy in the doldrums, will be the first to claim themselves victims, along with their observer buddies, currently calling the market 'in the doldrums'.

I read about people waiting for the ripple to arrive in their areas, saying 'what boom?' - areas outside Nottingham - where they don't flinch from thinking roads of bungalows are worth £375K.

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So should we treat LR figures as useless then?

I always assumed they were accurate and based on actual sold prices... but that can't be the case, unless every vendor in my area is accepting at least 15% below asking price (which they're not unfortunately!)

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^ ... 'bungalows worth £375,000 (each bungalow)'... awaiting the ripple.

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So should we treat LR figures as useless then?

I always assumed they were accurate and based on actual sold prices... but that can't be the case, unless every vendor in my area is accepting at least 15% below asking price (which they're not unfortunately!)

A lot of the vendors in your area probably aren't selling fullstop, just chancing their arm and then withdrawing from the market to try again later "when things pick up" :rolleyes:

Check out Digsby's One In Three Houses Do Not Sell... thread.

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A reminder for those living in the Southeast that rest of the UK property market is still in the doldrums.

I've had one of the worst days of my life. THAT is a post that gladdens me a little.

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So should we treat LR figures as useless then?

I always assumed they were accurate and based on actual sold prices... but that can't be the case, unless every vendor in my area is accepting at least 15% below asking price (which they're not unfortunately!)

Land Registry data, though it comes through a little slowly, is the last word - it is the best data. It is what the damn things actually sold for. The best way to get a feel for your local market is not via asking prices but via sold prices which can be readily interrogated using the Sold Price info in Rightmove, for example. This is what the EAs are presumably doing anyway. Fantasy asking prices are, presumably, a result of the fact that pre-2008 purchasers looking to sell on need to sell their existing home at 2008 prices in order to transact. Without that they have no equity. The whole market is basically completely broken and desperately needs a ho holds barred crash all the way to the bottom and evisceration of the buy-to-let investors too. Absent that it's just a shit match up with people who work for a living being shafted by the crap banks.

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I've lost track of how many properties you own Fromage.

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But the LR (esp for London and SE) have an upward bias due to lots of leasehold property, mainly flats. Sold prices on the LR take no account of a 'value' increase due to a lease extension. So a flat may be worth and sell for say £200,000 and a day later be worth and sell for say £280,000 due to a £80,000 lease extension. However LR is still the best we have but there will IMHO always be a bias towards London prices always rising due to lease extensions.

Also lots of new flats have very short leases of 125 years down to 99 years so the magic 80 years (needed for mortgages) is not far away.

Not to mention the lack of repo sales data or iirc auctions. Just the normal ones thru estate agents as I remember.

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But the LR (esp for London and SE) have an upward bias due to lots of leasehold property, mainly flats. Sold prices on the LR take no account of a 'value' increase due to a lease extension. So a flat may be worth and sell for say £200,000 and a day later be worth and sell for say £280,000 due to a £80,000 lease extension. However LR is still the best we have but there will IMHO always be a bias towards London prices always rising due to lease extensions.

Also lots of new flats have very short leases of 125 years down to 99 years so the magic 80 years (needed for mortgages) is not far away.

Not to mention the lack of repo sales data or iirc auctions. Just the normal ones thru estate agents as I remember.

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Could information on all sales (e.g. BTL included, etc) be obtained though the LR via a Freedom of Information request? I assume they'd just deny the request anyway.

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Could information on all sales (e.g. BTL included, etc) be obtained though the LR via a Freedom of Information request? I assume they'd just deny the request anyway.

All sales are already accessible via the LR, they're just not all included in the LR price index that's all.

Edit: you can check out your local sales data here, but be warned that if you search for a wide enough area it will randomly chop off a significant number of the results (for instance the first half of a postcode is generally too large to return all results) and this can give an unrepresentative picture. AFAIK evictee's website houseprices.io pulls the same LR data and is a lot more usable IMO.

Edited by Neverwhere

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Could information on all sales (e.g. BTL included, etc) be obtained though the LR via a Freedom of Information request? I assume they'd just deny the request anyway.

The LR reports include a re-calculation of the index with the repo figures included. This occurred a little while back. We used to talk about it quite a bit and then a number of us complained to the Land Reg and then, perhaps by coincidence, they started including the other figure. They are actually very similar.

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The LR reports include a re-calculation of the index with the repo figures included. This occurred a little while back. We used to talk about it quite a bit and then a number of us complained to the Land Reg and then, perhaps by coincidence, they started including the other figure. They are actually very similar.

Given FreeTrader's New Build Losers thread I think it would probably make more difference if they included new builds in the LR index.*

* Mentally prepares for embarrassment on potentially learning that they are in fact already doing this as well (#^.^#)

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Many houses now around me are going for the same (nominal) as around 2000,down 40% in real terms.Terraces can be had again for £33k-£40k.Decent semis are going for roughly 2001 prices again circa £105k.New builds since then are also well down.

This is probably now about right considering the wages around here are the same as 2000.Most of the decent employers are gone.

We have seen less than 1% immigration though.Luckily southern based BTL seem to of been pulling out as well.Their voids and none payers probably put paid to a lot.Local BTL seemed mostly to be boomers investing their redundancy/pension lump sums.Most of those have worked through the system as well.The people who bought from 2003 up to now are probably mostly all underwater.The ones selling have at the very least lost their original deposits.

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Greed and short memories,if you want to see into the futurethen look in the past, old girlfriend of mine south east london bought 1989 @ £55k one bed starter flat on a huge development, 1991 sold at auction at 24K (repoed) fast forward now worth £120K ish,although that time the govt/bankers were not so clued up,I was in south east london last week, market booming,lots of 15 plate cars and designer wearing sheeple gear,lots of sold boards ,I was glad to get back to Devon,Im in the property game and I cant believe whats going on, who is earning all this money for mortgages?????? scares me to death the level of debt sheeple will go to to keep up with the Jones, lots paying 800K for a house with a £100k deposit, and the big beema on finance to go on the drive they own one eighth of!!(I know EA's up there)

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Many houses now around me are going for the same (nominal) as around 2000,down 40% in real terms.Terraces can be had again for £33k-£40k.Decent semis are going for roughly 2001 prices again circa £105k.New builds since then are also well down.

This is probably now about right considering the wages around here are the same as 2000.Most of the decent employers are gone.

We have seen less than 1% immigration though.Luckily southern based BTL seem to of been pulling out as well.Their voids and none payers probably put paid to a lot.Local BTL seemed mostly to be boomers investing their redundancy/pension lump sums.Most of those have worked through the system as well.The people who bought from 2003 up to now are probably mostly all underwater.The ones selling have at the very least lost their original deposits.

Same down the coast.

A scan of the LR data shows most houses in Whitby selling around 150K.

That's a lot for the local wages but a lot less than the RM asking prices.

Stocks hangs around for ages. Only way to shift it is to accept offers for 2002ish prices.

There's a row of houses where 6 out of the 7 are for sale.

5 are asking 2007ish + 100k.

The sixth has just gone under offer at 100k off the price paid in 2007.

In the wider area (Scabby,Whitby) Its not unusual to see a good 40k-100k off prices paid in 2005-2007.

Some houses appear to priceless in the worthless sense.

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Yeah my non-South East area is also supposedly 'in the doldrums' and are prices are supposedly around 12-15% below 2007/8 peak according to the LR... yet every single property for sale has an asking at least equivalent to if not in excess of 2007/8 prices.

it's hilarious that people take asking prices as reality and can't accept actual sale price are correct, except in the areas where the actual sale prices confirm the asking price madness, Ie London.

this low sales volume, skewed manipulated, government underpinned fraud of a market is one sick joke.

the fact is, nothing is selling. the asking prices are not real. sure some idiot moving out of London might pay them, or some idiot abroad being sold a dream like Tom Dick and Harry were in 2007 by the Bulgarians.

it feels like 2007 all over again...

this time it's different for sure, interest rates are 0.5% and the public wouldn't survive another round of money printing.

I mean really, what do people think is going to happen.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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Same down the coast.

A scan of the LR data shows most houses in Whitby selling around 150K.

That's a lot for the local wages but a lot less than the RM asking prices.

Stocks hangs around for ages. Only way to shift it is to accept offers for 2002ish prices.

There's a row of houses where 6 out of the 7 are for sale.

5 are asking 2007ish + 100k.

The sixth has just gone under offer at 100k off the price paid in 2007.

In the wider area (Scabby,Whitby) Its not unusual to see a good 40k-100k off prices paid in 2005-2007.

Some houses appear to priceless in the worthless sense.

I might buy in Whitby if they ever come down to circa £70k, :D .See one up in Robin Hoods Bay i used to rent for holidays up for £400k,wish id bought it for £70k in 97 :ph34r:

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I might buy in Whitby if they ever come down to circa £70k, :D .See one up in Robin Hoods Bay i used to rent for holidays up for £400k,wish id bought it for £70k in 97 :ph34r:

Im awaiting Tax credit reforms with a lot of interest.

Walking round Whitby - and Im not being Daily Mail, just educated guessing - I would guess 70% of the business is visitors from Greater Middlesbrough p1ssing away their tax credit free cash.

This is mainly due to the 'boro population destroying their own pubs/nightlife.

I'd be wary about rushing in buying a 'quaint fisherman's cottage' in Whitby and RHB. Some of the build quality is poor. Most are very cold and damp - some of the stuff in some of the Whitby yard are so cold and damp it feels like living in a fridge.

RHB and the East side of Whitby have suffered a lot of the the holiday lets.

Holiday homes I dont mind - I grew up knowing a few families who had a holdaiy home that they visited.

Holiday lets where they advertise for 4 peopl and get 8 living in it are another matter - a total curse of the local residents; its like living next to the worse social housing for the summer - noise, drunk fights, puking etc etc.

I did have a wander and see that a lot of the the holiday lets have hardly been full fully booked this year. Its pretty easy - just look at the bin and see if the complimentary binbag is still folded in the bin. A lot of people will be sunk by their holiday let 'investment'

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