The End Of The Solar Industry (Surprise Move)

[anonguest]

No threat to your free lunch yet, grandad.

Was just asking cos the article didn't make it clear if the feed-in rate reduction will apply to existing installations

I haven't got solar installed. I was asking so as to know whether to gloat to others who have, recently, installed and bragged endlessly about the savings etc etc.

[Kurt Barlow]

Solar thermal does attract subsidy - domestic RHI - which unlike the FiTs paid for solar PV , are paid out of general taxation and administered by Ofgem. The rates remain unchanged at 19.5p per unit of heat and are paid for 7 years.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental-programmes/domestic-renewable-heat-incentive-domestic-rhi/about-domestic-rhi/eligible-heating-systems-domestic-renewable-heat-incentive

For domestic users, solar thermal (hot water) makes more sense that PV (electric) as the daytime sun energy is stored as hot water which tends to be used at night (childrens' bath time) or early morning.

Given the government's open hostility to all self-generation subsidies, anyone thinking of getting solar thermal should get on with it. There are a few hoops to jump through to get the RHI payments but they pretty much pay for the installation.

My understanding of UK feed in tariffs is that if you use the electricity you get about 12.9p / kwh as opposed to about 5p if you export?

This would incentivize home use at the point of production which is similar to Oz although there is no feed in tariff. In the case here a Hot water cylinder connected to an air source heat pump is the way to go with the heat pump on a time switch.

An added bonus of daytime running is that the heat pump will be more efficient with higher day time ambient temperatures.

[Simon Taylor]

My understanding of UK feed in tariffs is that if you use the electricity you get about 12.9p / kwh as opposed to about 5p if you export?

This would incentivize home use at the point of production which is similar to Oz although there is no feed in tariff. In the case here a Hot water cylinder connected to an air source heat pump is the way to go with the heat pump on a time switch.

An added bonus of daytime running is that the heat pump will be more efficient with higher day time ambient temperatures.

Bang on, and ASHPs also attract the RHI payment if the house is properly insulated (you'd be mad to have an ASHP if it isn't) and has the correct EPC rating.

This is slightly off-topic (but relevant to the whole energy debate) but if the artificial scarcity of building land didn't swallow such a large proportion of the value of a new build, then all new houses could be built with sufficient quality and to high efficiency standards that a combination of PV/battery/ST/ASHP would make running costs virtually zero. It has already been done but it would take a major shake up of the planning laws to allow such building to go mainstream.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Bang on, and ASHPs also attract the RHI payment if the house is properly insulated (you'd be mad to have an ASHP if it isn't) and has the correct EPC rating.

This is slightly off-topic (but relevant to the whole energy debate) but if the artificial scarcity of building land didn't swallow such a large proportion of the value of a new build, then all new houses could be built with sufficient quality and to high efficiency standards that a combination of PV/battery/ST/ASHP would make running costs virtually zero. It has already been done but it would take a major shake up of the planning laws to allow such building to go mainstream.

you fail to mention the commensurate lack of skillz for this type of housing in the UK construction industry from top to bottom.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Was just asking cos the article didn't make it clear if the feed-in rate reduction will apply to existing installations

I haven't got solar installed. I was asking so as to know whether to gloat to others who have, recently, installed and bragged endlessly about the savings etc etc.

Have no fear, the grandads shall continue to lord it over you.

Saying that, anyone could generate decent financial returns from other investments in the fabric of their homes to decrease energy usage. just not as s3xy and without the subsidy.

[billybong]

DECC have made it clear that the reduced FiTs will apply only to new installations. This was also the case for previous reductions in the FiT rate and subsequent digressions. I think that given the huge amount of investment and institutional capital which has been ploughed into solar schemes since 2010, any retrospective reductions would invite huge legal challenges.

Those who piled in when the FiTs were first introduced at the absurd rate of 43p/kWh will continue to receive that rate and the original FiT contracts were for 25 years, not the current 20. (Although even that looks good value compared to the price the government in offering to guarantee the developers of Hinckley Point, but then that's your grandchildren's problem)

Maybe that could be the sort of case that TTIP (the proposed new trade agreement) would apply to. Possibly the subsidies are being removed now because the solar companies would have a stronger case for compensation, for whatever reason - maybe loss due to misleading promises regarding the subsidies, under TTIP law than under current UK/eu law.

Edited September 2, 2015 by billybong

[2buyornot2buy]

Bang on, and ASHPs also attract the RHI payment if the house is properly insulated (you'd be mad to have an ASHP if it isn't) and has the correct EPC rating.

Is it not the exact opposite? You're RHI payment is greater the worst your EPC performance is?

[Simon Taylor]

Is it not the exact opposite? You're RHI payment is greater the worst your EPC performance is?

Sorry, didn't make that sentence very clear. On an operational level, ASHPs should only be installed in well insulated houses (this is not though, a requirement of the RHI) An EPC is essential to apply for RHI payments.