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Crashman Begins

1St Time Buyers Vs Sold To Renters On Hpc

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I've noticed that owners who are happy with thier equity / or paper Gains on their property get heavily ridiculed for discussing their equity etc

but sold to renters on this forum (some who didn't really need to sell) seem to be let off even though they have used the ladder to make gains & want more.

Discuss , especially 1st time buyers

Edited by Crashman Begins

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I've noticed that owners who are happy with thier equity / or paper Gains on their property get heavily ridiculed for discussing their equity etc

but sold to renters on this forum (some who didn't really need to sell) seem to be let off even though they have used the ladder to make gains & want more.

Discuss , especially 1st time buyers

Ok troll, name and shame.

i-m-watching-you-o.gif

Edited by 25 year mortgage 8itch

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It's simple isn't it?

Owners have done nothing, see nothing and will do nothing.

Sold to rent are the embodiment of HPC, they won the lottery (of HPI), realised that it came from nowhere and cashed out believing/knowing that it can't continue. They are actually the only people who have actively done something. Priced out renters haven't.

Next!

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I guess the clue is in the name of the site - HPC rather than Priced out or Generation Rent.

STR and first time buyers both want a HPC. Personally, I never had a problem with STR because a) they often contributed valuable insight (including to the buying process) and B) they weren't likely to be buying first time buyer houses.

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Well I don't quite fit into either camp - renter in UK (never bought in the UK), typing this from my property in Thailand - cost £25,000 - bought in cash (hardly a huge boast) in 2008 - lived in it probably half the time, and the other half in the UK. These days I spend more time in the UK (on holiday at the moment), but I see it as a place to escape / retire to. I think I'd prefer to live in the UK if I had to choose though.

There are alternatives and I agree with the general rule that you should try to do something because I think we're in for a LONG wait for a HPC. I've given up hoping to buy in the UK since a few years ago. It comes down to value, not affordability. As I said in another thread, I could afford to buy a £10 pint of beer, but just because "I can"....it comes down to value.

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It's simple isn't it?

Owners have done nothing, see nothing and will do nothing.

Sold to rent are the embodiment of HPC, they won the lottery (of HPI), realised that it came from nowhere and cashed out believing/knowing that it can't continue. They are actually the only people who have actively done something. Priced out renters haven't.

Next!

Those who STR because they saw a crash coming are the embodiment of HPI, because unless they sold below market value they helped push prices up, they helped created the problem.

I've nothing against them as we both want an HPC, but they are to a degree property speculators and I think there is no denying that.

The accidental STR who had to move from one part of the country to another and then couldn't or wouldn't buy is another matter altogether.

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Money on paper is exactly that...... Inc money showing on a bank statement.....both can be lost overnight........very many that STR are forced into that position through no fault of their own and fault of their own........and yes value rules over price.

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It's a real quandry in a way - do you cash in your property or keep it and save on rent? Personally I would have taken the latter option no matter what HPI was going on. Now it's all too late til an HPC which is probably 5+ years away...

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Not sure I understand (excuse my stupidity here) - because of associated entrance/exit costs?

Yes deduct that also or add it as an extra cost of trading.

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What are we supposed to be discussing Crashman? Whether Sold to Renter's should be pilloried? I am a STR'er, bought in 2000 and sold late in 2006 when I went to Asia for a year and never bought when I returned for obvious reasons - I expected the market to correct. Just like the young priced out renters I have watched in dismay at the conduct of the 'powers that be' since the financial crisis and have been totally alienated. I could afford to buy but now refuse to do so. We are in this together against the feudal elite and their puppets in government that hoard housing and land and engineer asset value inflation.

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I dont have a problem with home buyers/equity.

I have a problem with EAs trying to live off peoples backs, pushing up the price of one of life's necessity and pretending they are the dogs Boll*ks/

I also have a problem with the government intervening in a free market to suit the bankers. The support the bankers have received is horrifying. The government has now pushed up prices to levels that might well take the government down and cause real civil unrest. It's a crazy situation.

That unearned, un-taxed equity the home buyers are crowing about could disappear in 12 months, or by the time they retire it will be worthless.

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That unearned, un-taxed equity the home buyers are crowing about could disappear in 12 months, or by the time they retire it will be worthless.

There are so very few winners in this crazy UK housing market - FFS, even the BTLers are/will be losing big time.

The only winners are those that bought donkeys years ago when prices weren't mad.

Other than that, here's the loser list:-

  • anyone who bought from roughly 2001/2002 onwards - sorry, you severely overpaid for your property
  • renters (yep, us)....we are losers in this market, need I point it out?
  • most BTLers with new budget reforms, and many BTLers even before budget reforms
  • any OO who does NOT downsize and properly make the most of their HPI - that's MANY MANY OO's - because otherwise all they're doing is locking their wealth into useless bricks
  • STR people if you rent long enough - you start to chip away at all that HPI you earned

I'm unapologetic with that list - I'm in it too. I think it probably represents 96 to 98% of the population - maybe more.

Yay, UK housing market.

Edited by canbuywontbuy

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There are so very few winners in this crazy UK housing market - FFS, even the BTLers are/will be losing big time.

The only winners are those that bought donkeys years ago when prices weren't mad.

Other than that, here's the loser list:-

  • anyone who bought from roughly 2001/2002 onwards - sorry, you severely overpaid for your property
  • renters (yep, us)....we are losers in this market, need I point it out?
  • most BTLers with new budget reforms, and many BTLers even before budget reforms
  • any OO who does NOT downsize and properly make the most of their HPI - that's MANY MANY OO's - because otherwise all they're doing is locking their wealth into useless bricks
  • STR people if you rent long enough - you start to chip away at all that HPI you earned

I'm unapologetic with that list - I'm in it too. I think it probably represents 96 to 98% of the population - maybe more.

Yay, UK housing market.

Lets not forget the other winners.....TAX PAYER FUNDED MPs !!!!

I do wonder sometimes why they dont all speak out on this obvious bubble....

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There are so very few winners in this crazy UK housing market - FFS, even the BTLers are/will be losing big time.

The only winners are those that bought donkeys years ago when prices weren't mad.

Other than that, here's the loser list:-

  • anyone who bought from roughly 2001/2002 onwards - sorry, you severely overpaid for your property
  • renters (yep, us)....we are losers in this market, need I point it out?
  • most BTLers with new budget reforms, and many BTLers even before budget reforms
  • any OO who does NOT downsize and properly make the most of their HPI - that's MANY MANY OO's - because otherwise all they're doing is locking their wealth into useless bricks
  • STR people if you rent long enough - you start to chip away at all that HPI you earned
I'm unapologetic with that list - I'm in it too. I think it probably represents 96 to 98% of the population - maybe more.

Yay, UK housing market.

Good post. IMHO there is a blind spot on HPC regarding the value of renting and keeping cash in the bank. In the long run we're all losing.

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I know of someone who bought five years ago sold recently and pocketed £120k out of the deal....but like a casino they have not pocketed it, they have gambled their winnings by reinvesting into another place that has risen in a similar way and taken out more debt.....no better off because they haven't cashed in their chips.....the wheel is still spinning.

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It's not on topic for CrashmanBegin's thread (but I've had my full of CB). Spinning wheel winkie. Good point. If my theory is correct, very few HPI winners, will cash out anything like the value of their current HPI wealth into the next HPC.

Good post. IMHO there is a blind spot on HPC regarding the value of renting and keeping cash in the bank. In the long run we're all losing.

I thought this a very good post by Fully Detached (below) - I get it Fully Detached... it drew no fire from me. Except too many speculator landlords, and landlords who do not take their obligations to tenants seriously.

Although there are winners and losers, and too many long-wave HPIers sat too happy. Many renters can't claim they've not been seriously disadvantaged by the way the HPI+++ market has gone in many area. Takes a long time to save up £10K+. My family is not going to hand over their position + mortgage debt obligation, to some easy HPI lifer with property worth fortunes in current market. It is, overall, more advantageous for them to continue renting, than having stress of a jumbo mortgage.

I would never underestimate the need of the average person to conform, and their resulting need for the people around them to conform as well. I am equally a target the sort of comments that you describe, but I am quite happy in the knowledge that this kind of quasi religious fervour is as much a sign of their insecurity as it is of their confidence. In short, the average HPI devotee understands on some level that the "market" is a ponzi scheme, even if they are not consciously aware of it. They need the likes of you and me to conform in order to protect their investment, and this - I think - is why the encouragement to do so can become derisory or bullying or however you want to describe it.

Another thing I have noticed is that those people look at the likes of you and me and see that we have plenty of spare cash to do the things we want to, whereas they are slaves to their own perceived wealth. They don't want you to be wealthy in a way that means you can enjoy life more than they can. They want you to be "wealthy" in a way that limits your freedom and enjoyment and ability to move, invest, change career, etc - as they have limited theirs.

In short, those people are already suffering the consequences of their actions - let's face it, would you prefer to be repossessed and freed from debt slavery, or to be tied to another 20-25 years of debt slavery for an illusory profit that requires continued government intervention and a limitless supply of cannon fodder to keep the ponzi going? They are actually suffering more now than they would in their worst case scenario of a crash and repossession, it's just that they 1) don't understand that yet, and 2) soldier on through the suffering with the (IMO) misguided consolation that they expect to make a fortune out of it in the end.

This may draw some fire from Venger, but it is not a post stating sympathy for the over leveraged, merely pointing out that my life and probably yours is already considerably better than theirs due to the freedom that I/we have.

PropertyTribes thread yesterday.

MatthewS Offline Mute
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Yesterday,05:34 PM
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Do you feel guilty?!
perhaps uncomfortable would be a better way of describing it!. We have just gone on to a 2 yr fix with RBS on our main home. I suppose its worth around £300K and we're paying £28.00 per week for the next 2 years on interest only. We didnt work hard for the equity having benefited from property value rises over the last 20 yrs. Compare this to the buyers just starting out and all those people who have zero chance of getting any mortgage and here we are living in a 4 bed detached for £112 per month - just doesnt seem right somehow :Confused:

talk about the haves and have nots.....

and not through our own efforts either...

anyone else feel the same?

http://www.propertytribes.com/do-you-feel-guilty-t-127621414.html
Edited by Venger

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It's not on topic for CrashmanBegin's thread (but I've had my full of CB). Spinning wheel winkie. Good point. If my theory is correct, very few HPI winners, will cash out anything like the value of their current HPI wealth into the next HPC.

I thought this a very good post by Fully Detached (below) - I get it Fully Detached... it drew no fire from me. Except too many speculator landlords, and landlords who do not take their obligations to tenants seriously.

Although there are winners and losers, and too many long-wave HPIers sat too happy. Many renters can't claim they've not been seriously disadvantaged by the way the HPI+++ market has gone in many area. Takes a long time to save up £10K+. My family is not going to hand over their position + mortgage debt obligation, to some easy HPI lifer with property worth fortunes in current market. It is, overall, more advantageous for them to continue renting, than having stress of a jumbo mortgage.

PropertyTribes thread yesterday.

You're taking a risk Venger. You're as much in denial as the most ardent HPI devotee.

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You're taking a risk Venger. You're as much in denial as the most ardent HPI devotee.

It is a market. We make our own market decisions.

My family is not prepared to buy at these prices. Risk? Yes. We're not buying at prices, from our perspective. Risk? I'm seeing some encouraging signs in the market. One seller reduced by £40K the house they've been marketing since 2014. The fact so many BTLers bought houses I showed an interest in from 2010 onwards, and the tax-relief changes.

Scoped out 2 empty houses (£600K approx value in this market on Thursday, and again with brother-in-law yesterday afternoon - said to have been sat empty for 6 months+). I question where the upsizers will come from. Although it's a market. All about risk and market decisions.

I don't rock up to HPC claiming just had a revelation that BTL does some wider damage in society, like some do (not you), and therefore we must go easy on 'ordinary folk in BTL trying to provide for their family and misled by media - begin Bailout 2.0.'

This is a war. Older cohorts have made common purpose with shit banks to extract rents from younger cohorts. In the long run the status quo of allowing an idiotic buy-to-let sector was always going to be unwound because it is politically and economically unsustainable. The Conservatives, god bless them, are doing it now. George Osborne has sharpened an unpleasant looking knife and then with merciless calculation slid it into the sector somewhere between its groin and its belly button. He then smiled pleasantly because he is really, really good at politics and promised that it wouldn't reach your chin till 2020 and then he started moving it upwards. Again I say, "Good luck with that".

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