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Tom Hayes Maths Genius, Libor Rigger

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I've got some bad news - there is no easy way to make money in the market. You have to rig it illegally or legally (!)

Despite raking in millions in wages and bonuses, the maths graduate was a self-confessed scruff, who still had the same superhero duvet cover on his bed he had had since the age of eight.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financial-crime/11768098/Convicted-Libor-trader-Tom-Hayes-the-self-confessed-scruff-not-motivated-by-money.html

Making millions but not spending it - a similar trader: Navinder Singh Sarao

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He could be a HPcer

“I just didn't see the point of buying another duvet cover when I had one that was perfectly adequate.”

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He could be a HPcer

I just didn't see the point of buying another duvet cover when I had one that was perfectly adequate.

He probably is - guess which one and win a major prize. ?

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Another really sick person too sick to try in Court?....only he was tried? Miracle cure for Aspergars found in Lock up

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His missus is a bit of sturdy Brynhildr type, but well, you would, wouldn't you?

afp-40bf07c0420673ac8df937e3f35eecbcdb06

Anyway I for one will be looking forward to his bosses being in court.

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Anyway I for one will be looking forward to his bosses being in court.

He has the look of fall guy about him..

The one not savvy enough to shift the blame when the powers that be wanted a scalp.

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From the Telegraph article:

While prosecutors claimed his no-holes barred business approach was driven by old fashioned greed, Hayes insisted for him it was simply a “numbers game” and all he wanted to do was carry out his job perfectly.


:blink: I don't think I like the sound of that.

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Guest eight

His missus is a bit of sturdy Brynhildr type, but well, you would, wouldn't you?

She looks exactly like a friend's wife. Who is barking mad.

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His missus is a bit of sturdy Brynhildr type, but well, you would, wouldn't you?

I had to google that.

As he didn't like spending money, it was never likely that he would marry a high maintenance woman. Quick you single men on HPC - your quest is to search for your Brynhildr!

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Next up "....unreasonable behaviour....."

He's going to need that duvet cover. It's all he'll have left.

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Surely his supervisors knew what he was doing? Maybe not, as he made the profit, they turned a blind eye. :blink:

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Hmm. He was tried at Southwark Crown Court which is now notorious as the place that the authorities send people when they want to be sure of a conviction since the juries are thick and half can barely speak or understand English.

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/379367/Are-some-people-just-too-stupid-to-serve-on-a-jury

For example why were Dave Lee Travis and Rolf Harris tried there when none lived anywhere near the court and most of the crimes of which the were accused did not happen near there either.

It now appears to be the UKs premier venue for Show Trials

BTW rigging Libor required people to cooperate on the other sides of the trades so when are all the other participants in the activity going to get put on trial.

Anyway at least it confirms what everyone suspected that the City banks have been rigging the markets

I doubt Libor is the only place where this occurred

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Whatever happened to vicarious liability?

I think there has been a whole culture of fiddling the Libor rate, and people in the big wooden panelled offices knew it was going on, and sort of "not noticed", while it made money. :wacko:

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I think there has been a whole culture of fiddling the Libor rate, and people in the big wooden panelled offices knew it was going on, and sort of "not noticed", while it made money. :wacko:

Not noticing is not a valid defence

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Guest eight

Whatever happened to vicarious liability?

They split up when punk ended?

I personally don't have a problem with anything being rigged - it's like insider trading, at the highest levels all trading is insider trading. So long as all the participants know that they are in a rigged game and are free to participate - or not - on that basis.

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Not noticing is not a valid defence

But a very effective one.

Can you prove that I was aware that XYZ was happening? You have documentary evidence to that effect?

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He has the look of fall guy about him..

The one not savvy enough to shift the blame when the powers that be wanted a scalp.

Probably not smart enough to realise that what he was doing was illegal hence no attempt to cover his tracks; anyone savvy enough to realise it was illegal was presumably smart enough not to put anything in writing.

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I think there has been a whole culture of fiddling the Libor rate, and people in the big wooden panelled offices knew it was going on, and sort of "not noticed", while it made money. :wacko:

Not fiddling exactly, more like Nulibor, like the old one, only better left with a gentle touch of regulation for hardworking City Folks.

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Not fiddling exactly, more like Nulibor, like the old one, only better left with a gentle touch of regulation for hardworking City Folks.

Didn't Tony Blair make extensive use of a shredder when he left office? Or am I thinking of somebody else?

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Didn't Tony Blair make extensive use of a shredder when he left office? Or am I thinking of somebody else?

some pension scandal IIRC....casual billions lost I heard

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But a very effective one.

Can you prove that I was aware that XYZ was happening? You have documentary evidence to that effect?

Not at all - I don't need to prove anything

Vicarious liability results in an action in tort - a civil case and the standard of proof necessary drops drastically down from 'beyond reasonable doubt' (criminal cases) to 'on the balance of probability' (for all civil cases)

Furthermore a vicarious liability tort is one of strict liability (the employer has to prove he is not culpable)

So no, not knowing is not any kind of defence - and for very good policy reasons

Whether there is a wish to pursue the case is another matter - I think we all know the answer to that (I don't even know who would instigate proceedings in this case - probably one of the banking authorites - fat chance!)

Fraud is much harder to prove (criminal offence), but that's a totally different kettle of fish

(p.s i'm quite prepared to eat humble pie and be corrected by my learned friend Bloo Loo et al)

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Not at all - I don't need to prove anything

Vicarious liability results in an action in tort - a civil case and the standard of proof necessary drops drastically down from 'beyond reasonable doubt' (criminal cases) to 'on the balance of probability' (for all civil cases)

I think Mr Pin was referring to criminal action against the directors rather than civil action against the firm.

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