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anonguest

Boy O Boy Are Some People Stubborn!?

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I chipped in on another thread a while back, about delusional sellers, and referred to this particular property as an example.

It has been on the market for over a year at least - and have checked in on its sale progress periodically.

I noted it had gone STC twice over that time (may have been more, but I didn't see it). The seller then decided to raise the price from 160K to 175K!!!! It went STC a third time just last month - and I thought to myself maybe this will be it and it will finally 'go'?

But NO! It's baaaaaack.

Boy some sellers are stubborn. When do you reckon they might just start to twig that it migggght just be a weeeee bit overpriced?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47757485.html

Edited by anonguest

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£1000 BUYER'S INCENTIVE AVAILABLE ON THIS PROPERTY (subject to terms and conditions)

WTF is that?

I think its like a 'we know you probably cant even scrape together a crappy 5% deposit...even with Gideot's help to screw yourself scheme, so we'll bung a grand your way so you can pretend to the bank you have a grand bigger deposit' kind of thing.

Should be illegal, but this being ponzi britain...

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I chipped in on another thread a while back, about delusional sellers, and referred to this particular property as an example.

It has been on the market for over a year at least - and have checked in on its sale progress periodically.

I noted it had gone STC twice over that time (may have been more, but I didn't see it). The seller then decided to raise the price from 160K to 175K!!!! It went STC a third time just last month - and I thought to myself maybe this will be it and it will finally 'go'?

But NO! It's baaaaaack.

Boy some sellers are stubborn. When do you reckon they might just start to twig that it migggght just be a weeeee bit overpriced?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-47757485.html

£175k for a 2 bed what looks like council estate flat in Norwich! The sooner I leave this once great country the better.

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It looks like they may have to extend the lease again before they find a buyer. It's only got 107 years on it.

:D:D:D

Actually, on that point, perhaps someone can also enlighten me, lest I have misunderstood the advert wording/meaning......

The ad refers to the lease being extended. But....has it actually been extended already (and hence probably why the seller has upped their price)? OR, is it saying that the seller has merely done the ground work to permit a buyer to extend the lease from its current 57 years (as was specified in the advert till late last year)?

Edited by anonguest

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£175k for a 2 bed what looks like council estate flat in Norwich! The sooner I leave this once great country the better.

Too right! http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/property-50500756.html, http://www.rightmove.co.uk/overseas-property/property-53366711.html

What's that quote about the definition of a bubble being when market pricing bares no relation to objective intrinsic valuation? :P

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Oh no, not this bloody flat again! :rolleyes:

£175k for a 2 bed what looks like council estate flat in Norwich!

I does look a bit 'council' given the bland 1960s architecture but I'm certain the flats are all private in this block. It's in a popular area so it warrants a premium of sorts - but not £175k for a 107 year lease. I'm unsure it will sell even with a £40k drop. Coincidentally I just found out that my niece has moved into a house just around the corner.

I have lived on a post war council housing estate for 32 years in Norwich and relatives lived on other estates so I am very familiar with them. Very solid and spacious homes.

I think this in one of the most expensive ex council flats on the market in Norwich @ £150k :
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-35603523.html

For the same asking price you could secure a 3 bedroomed freehold ex council house in my old stomping ground.

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Oh no, not this bloody flat again! :rolleyes:

For the same asking price you could secure a 3 bedroomed freehold ex council house in my old stomping ground.

I have noticed that too and is the main factor in my mind, not knowing the merits or appeal of the area personally, which point to this flat being stupidly priced - never mind the lease length issue.

Since posting my opening post above curiosity got the better of me and, after a quick phone call, I learn that the service charge is over £2000 annually!

I wonder if this, more than the headline price and how poorly it compares to local freehold properties, is what is making all these previous brief STC listings revert back to 'available' again so quickly? As would be buyers, after putting in an offer, finally get round to investigating the nitty gritty details.

Edited by anonguest

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Just musing... not a lot to go on - Inheritor sale / leaving for care-home, sheltered housing, retirement in Spain?

no.16 (scroll down this page link) http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/16-ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lx/16848391

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/903910993

If it really is no.16 (and I've not checked streetview - apartments can be difficult)..

Same Mr.H had activity with planning a carport in 1997, and again in March 2015 to planning re branches of trees overhanging road in March 2015. (Newmarket Road Conservation Area)

http://planning.norwich.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=details&keyVal=9700422F (Maybe be one-time use random generated url).

Down the particulars it says 'Prospective purchasers should be aware that the lease has 59 years remaining' so I suggest it has been extended to 107 years, and yes... for sellers it's usually buyers who have to pay costs of that and whack on a chunk more for good measure.

2 others apartments there have been on rental market... what's the service charge for owners?

2010: no. 20 at £650pm http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/20/dial-house/ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lh/16848307

2014: no. 12 at £650pm http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/12/dial-house/ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lh/16848298

2012: no.5 (a 1 bed) at £446pm http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/5/dial-house/ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lh/16848310

2010 no. 8 (a 1 bed) at £525pm http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/8/dial-house/ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lh/16848313

All of which no record of any recent sale (post rental listings). www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/NR2-2LH.html

Edited by Venger

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I have noticed that too and is the main factor in my mind, not knowing the merits or appeal of the area personally, which point to this flat being stupidly priced - never mind the lease length issue.

Since posting my opening post above curiosity got the better of me and, after a quick phone call, I learn that the service charge is over £2000 annually!

I wonder if this, more than the headline price and how poorly it compares to local freehold properties, is what is making all these previous brief STC listings revert back to 'available' again so quickly? As would be buyers, after putting in an offer, finally get round to investigating the nitty gritty details.

£2,000 a year - ***k a duck! :blink: I agree with you anonguest that it's probably the lease that's putting potential buyers off.

Here's a tip: check out the modernist 1930s flats in the Trafford Rd/Patricia Rd area (about a 5-10 minute walk from this Grove Ave flat). Much nicer architecturally, fairer priced and on quieter roads (a bonus so close to the city centre). Hopefully reasonable service charges too. A former girlfriend's mum lived there (may still do) and it was a lovely flat. :)

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£175k for a 2 bed what looks like council estate flat in Norwich! The sooner I leave this once great country the better.

I think these sellers have no concept of how much working and saving it takes to be able to hold £175k in your hand.

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Just musing... not a lot to go on - Inheritor sale / leaving for care-home, sheltered housing, retirement in Spain?

no.16 (scroll down this page link) http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/16-ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lx/16848391

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/903910993

If it really is no.16 (and I've not checked streetview - apartments can be difficult)..

Same Mr.H had activity with planning a carport in 1997, and again in March 2015 to planning re branches of trees overhanging road in March 2015. (Newmarket Road Conservation Area)

http://planning.norwich.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=details&keyVal=9700422F (Maybe be one-time use random generated url).

Down the particulars it says 'Prospective purchasers should be aware that the lease has 59 years remaining' so I suggest it has been extended to 107 years, and yes... for sellers it's usually buyers who have to pay costs of that and whack on a chunk more for good measure.

2 others apartments there have been on rental market... what's the service charge for owners?

2010: no. 20 at £650pm http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/20/dial-house/ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lh/16848307

2014: no. 12 at £650pm http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/12/dial-house/ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lh/16848298

2012: no.5 (a 1 bed) at £446pm http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/5/dial-house/ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lh/16848310

2010 no. 8 (a 1 bed) at £525pm http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/8/dial-house/ipswich-road/norwich/nr2-2lh/16848313

All of which no record of any recent sale (post rental listings). www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/NR2-2LH.html

WOW! Very Impressive. You're quite a detective!

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I think these sellers have no concept of how much working and saving it takes to be able to hold £175k in your hand.

That is one of the best quotes I have ever read vis a vis trying to describe the seemingly bizarre prices that sellers seem to pick - and be hell bent on getting!

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I think these sellers have no concept of how much working and saving it takes to be able to hold £175k in your hand.

This is the weird thing with housing - people just think in the monthly mortgage repayments. £175K is "nothing", because it's just an abstract number - divided up into the mortgage repayments. If you can meet this month's repayment, that's what makes most people happy. Next month is next month.

Want to be "smart" and put in a large deposit, reducing the mortgage? The desposit is sunk into the property - never to be seen again until you sell - a bit scary in these toppy times - and just madness to stick your life savings into a single asset class that long ago de-coupled from wage / inflation growth. The "over-bought" signals are everywhere with property. I think the correct strategy is to buy low, not buy high.

Edited by canbuywontbuy

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I think these sellers have no concept of how much working and saving it takes to be able to hold £175k in your hand.

Such a simple but fitting summary of the madness in one sentence. These sellers perhaps don't appreciate they've reduced the market for their properties to those who are sitting on similar gargantuan house price gains. Most people who work for living and are not in on the game can just watch with interest from the sidelines and see if another HPI convert snaps it up. Or the sellers get real.

Seeing a property like that for one hundred and seventy five thousand pounds when the average wage in this country is around £25K is just sickening. Totally demotivating. And we're not even talking London but relatively low-wage Norwich.

I am sure the area is nice (it has to be!) but the building looks like the sort of place crack dealers would hang out around at night...

Edited by SillyBilly

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I think these sellers have no concept of how much working and saving it takes to be able to hold £175k in your hand.

In part we can blame the demise of the physical pay packet and the rise of cheap credit. People have no real feel for the value of money, it's just a number to them and then also beyond a certain amount the numbers become next to meaningless for people.

Best example is the banking crisis/scandal and the MPs expenses scandal that were going on at a similarish time. Because people couldn't get their heads around the all the billions and millions they soon lost interest when an MP spent £2000 on a duck house and went mental about that instead. I've often wondered whether someone with connections to the banking industry helped engineer the leak to divert attention away from the banks :ph34r:

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I think these sellers have no concept of how much working and saving it takes to be able to hold £175k in your hand.

What about the buyers, do they have no concept of what £175k will buy in most countries of the world?

Why would anyone chose to live in a rabbit hutch like that when the same money buys something like this:

l29d52d45-m0xd-w640_h480_q80.jpg

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What about the buyers, do they have no concept of what £175k will buy in most countries of the world?

Why would anyone chose to live in a rabbit hutch like that when the same money buys something like this:

I hate this country...

Had a look at the EA website, it actually does a Property Bee style listing of its asking price (seems this place is OVERPRICED), shows the plot and house size if it had streeview it'd be perfect

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In part we can blame the demise of the physical pay packet and the rise of cheap credit. People have no real feel for the value of money, it's just a number to them and then also beyond a certain amount the numbers become next to meaningless for people.

I agree with the sentiment, but I think a way to get around it is to use time as the measure instead. If you're talking to someone who struggles to save £500 in a particularly frugal month and then explain to them that £175k equals almost 30 years of being that frugal every single month with no backsliding, they might start to understand what a huge effort it is to earn and save that kind of money i.e. that most people will never save that much in their entire working life.

My girlfriend once asked what I thought a reasonable amount to spend on a house was and I said I wouldn't feel comfortable spending much more than £100k. We live in SE England where this might get you 20-25% of a family home. She looked at me like I was crazy, so I asked her how much she was saving from her paycheque each month and how many months it would take for her to save £100k. She thought about it for a moment and then looked a bit stunned.

Edited by Dorkins

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I agree with the sentiment, but I think a way to get around it is to use time as the measure instead. If you're talking to someone who struggles to save £500 in a particularly frugal month and then explain to them that £175k equals almost 30 years of being that frugal every single month with no backsliding, they might start to understand what a huge effort it is to earn and save that kind of money i.e. that most people will never save that much in their entire working life.

My girlfriend once asked what I thought a reasonable amount to spend on a house was and I said I wouldn't feel comfortable spending much more than £100k. We live in SE England where this might get you 20-25% of a family home. She looked at me like I was crazy, so I asked her how much she was saving from her paycheque each month and how many months it would take for her to save £100k. She thought about it for a moment and then looked a bit stunned.

That's not the question most buyers are asking themselves.

They're thinking "how much would I pay to rent this house from the bank?"

If they consider themselves slightly more financially savvy, they ask "how much would I pay to rent this house from the bank and enter into a forward contract on house prices in 20 years?"

If they are more financially savvy, they might ask themselves "how much would I pay to rent this house from the bank, and enter into a forward contract on house prices in 20 years, while also selling a virtually uncapped personally-liable insurance policy to some very financially astute bankers against a rise in interest rates over the next 20 years?"

Edited by richc

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The ad refers to the lease being extended. But....has it actually been extended already (and hence probably why the seller has upped their price)? OR, is it saying that the seller has merely done the ground work to permit a buyer to extend the lease from its current 57 years (as was specified in the advert till late last year)?

A 57 year lease is unmortgageable. It does say the lease is 107 years SUBJECT TO REGISTRATION (whatever that means - if it's been extended it should have been registered). If it's actually less than 80 it causes problems.

A £2k a year service charge is also exceptionally high. It shouldn't be more than £1k by the looks of the property.

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That's not the question most buyers are asking themselves.

They're thinking "how much would I pay to rent this house from the bank?"

If they consider themselves slightly more financially savvy, they ask "how much would I pay to rent this house from the bank and enter into a forward contract on house prices in 20 years?"

If they are more financially savvy, they might ask themselves "how much would I pay to rent this house from the bank, and enter into a forward contract on house prices in 20 years, while also selling a virtually uncapped personally-liable insurance policy to some very financially astute bankers against a rise in interest rates over the next 20 years?"

People are individuals. I'm not carrying those buyers/owners who think that way. Read MSE. Places like that apartment they've locked in max value at peak with a mind of more HPI to come, applied for Consent To Let, and traded up - many times over.

Those who choose to pay £175,000 for such places make their own decisions.

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