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More Btl Wannabe Mugs Get Sucked In

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/diyinvesting/article-3169981/SPECIAL-INVESTIGATION-Maria-Davis-says-make-buy-let-millionaire-believe-her.html

When she finishes, Maria has a message: ‘This was free money. Those of you who sat and watched everyone else come up here and take it will miss out if you don’t start taking action.’

Edited by Dave Beans

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Same old names still doing the circuit. No one dragged the attendees there...

If we get HPC, these property-investors, property-course buyers, made their own choices. Bad enough carrying stack of them on my shoulders... no one is offering them the blood from my neck to drink again (2008+) as victims, vs these insane house prices (ohhh 'they didn't know it was a lot of money, it's just numbers on a screen.. banks to blame yes, take the savers' money.. it's the opposite side of our debt.').

Maria + Gill. http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/130863-andy-shaw-greg-ballard-bankruptcy-proceedings/?p=2258225

WSJ comments about easy money from the other day:

Hyun Smith 20 hours ago
"seemed like an easy way to get money" - That's always the problem.

David Hill 2 days ago
One common feature of all the borrowers who complain they were "duped" by some lender(s) is that they all thought they were getting a good deal. No one forced them to sign the loan documents. The borrowers then turn around and blame everyone but themselves for the deal.

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From the article:

We end with a push to sign up to a three-day training course. It normally costs £998, but if we put pen to paper today it’s half-price. If we attend, we’ll become SWANs (Sleep-Well-At-Night investors).

Shortly to become Lost-It-All-Regret-Signing investors.

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my favourite quote from the article is about paying fees to mortgage brokers

“Don’t worry about paying for a shovel when you know there is gold in the mountains.”

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my favourite quote from the article is about paying fees to mortgage brokers

“Don’t worry about paying for a shovel when you know there is gold in the mountains.”

Very appropriate, isn't the legend that the only ones who get rich from the gold rush are the shovel sellers?

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I think this article is incredible subversive (in a good way for anyone wanting to see significant falls in house prices). It's the tone of it - which paints a picture of a Ponzi scheme - and I think that the article ends up being alarming to a passing reader because there is no attempt to balance the position of the buy-to-let boosters.

Going fully tin hat on this, I'd even be inclined to read it as setting the scene and testing the water for the public reaction to an unexpectedly aggressive intervention from the Bank of England on the regulation front which is informed by a correct reading of what buy-to-let investment really is - a con game run by the banks.

I'm off to read the comments.

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Top rated comment presently (376 up votes, vs 11 down)

someone, somewhere, United Kingdom, 10 hours ago

Is this an advert!? This a woman might have made money from buy to let, but she now makes money from selling these daft courses, where she has created an artifical need for something, using a psychological parlour trick.

Second (265 vs 6)

DonnaM, Birmingham, United Kingdom, 10 hours ago

Hard push tactics and making people that want to save and spend within their means feel very uncomfortable!!!! It's people like this that aided the crash in the 1st place. Stay well away!!!

This sucker is going down. Believe it. Hurry up you daft buy-to-let clowns, last chance to hand over a 25% deposit to cushion banks on the way down. Let's get some foam on those runways.

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Going fully tin hat on this, I'd even be inclined to read it as setting the scene and testing the water for the public reaction to an unexpectedly aggressive intervention from the Bank of England on the regulation front which is informed by a correct reading of what buy-to-let investment really is - a con game run by the banks.

It's an interesting article.

You use the 'tin hat' phrase quite allot - got me thinking - I suppose it is a useful tool to remind / distance oneself from a controversial viewpoint so that we remain objective.

It's possible that George wants a crash, that BTL landlords are being lined up as the patsy, that there is a subversive government sponsored media campaign to turn public opinion against them in advance of the crash. I want that to be true but...what's the Okrums razor thingy.

Most likely Daily Mail have a commercial relationship with a property vested interest. They get paid to pump out this shit day after day and their scumbag readership quite like reading it anyway. Win win. However, they hire a young, talented, thoughtful, journo and make her pump out this crap... she thinks 'I can't believe I went to uni to churn this ******** out' and inserts as much subversive content that her editors will allow. Skilfully done.

https://twitter.com/vbischoff

"Money journalist at the Daily Mail - views mine etc. Don't be a cog in the machine, be a spanner in the works!"

Well done Vicky. Keep up the good work!

Edited by growlers

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I don't think it's tin hat at all to suggest the MSM have done a massive u-turn in the past week or so on their position on BTL. I don't think it's a coincidence either.

The Daily Mail will be interesting to watch given their ownership of Zoopla. Although they seem to be run at arm's length, will that still apply when things get desperate.

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I don't think it's tin hat at all to suggest the MSM have done a massive u-turn in the past week or so on their position on BTL. I don't think it's a coincidence either.

The Daily Mail will be interesting to watch given their ownership of Zoopla. Although they seem to be run at arm's length, will that still apply when things get desperate.

Good point about Zoopla - forgot about that. They sold out tho didn't they?

I'm not saying this is impossible - my reading about the CSA cover-up completely change changed my view of what the Government is capable / willing to do - but we want this to be true and aren't dispassionate observers.

Hypothesis: Government about to crash the housing market and setting up BTL landlords as the target of the peoples wrath through a subversive propaganda campaign.

Expectation:

  • Negative news stories on BTL: Tax evasion, poor morals, exploitation...
  • Pumping of a 'face' - high profile BTL hate figure.
  • Landlords appearing in a negative light in soaps and dramas.
  • Social media negative publicity.
  • High profile lovable tenant stories in media - victims of hate BTL investors.
  • More panorama style exposes on BTL transgressions.
  • Tenants calling in to give their views more often on radio shows.
  • Increased tenant views in media - HMO sharing etc.
  • Sob story repentance stories 'I've lost it all on property' in the Mail.

That's just a brainstorm. I'm not sure I've seen this...yet.

Perhaps to come...hopefully.

But like said, article author is a 20 something, independent spirit, probably living with friends in a shared rented house with a shit landlord and is getting her view across. Good for her.

Also...if we today buy into the whole propaganda idea, why stop with the press? Make sense to influence subversive views in social media and forums...like this one!

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Good point about Zoopla - forgot about that. They sold out tho didn't they?

The Daily Mail's parent company is dmg media

dmg media owns 32% of Zoopla Property Group.

Zoopla Property Group's brands include Zoopla, PrimeLocation, SmartNewHomes, HomesOverseas and AllTheAgents.

dmg media's parent company is Daily Mail and General Trust (DMGT)

DMGT also owns dmg information, which had £215m of property-related revenues in 2014.

dmg information owns Landmark Information Group which has a number of divisions providing services to the UK residential and commercial property sectors, and also mortgage lenders.

Landmark Information Group owns Landmark Analytics (formerly Calnea Analytics), which devised the Land Registry house price index and now acts as the statistical consultant to the Land Reg. The company provides residential property market data, analysis and valuation services to the government, mortgage lenders, estate agents, surveyors and the general public.

Landmark Analytics owns mouseprice.com.

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I posted this the other day on a different thread so apologies for being repetitive, but I think it's relevant to the turn the discussion has taken here:

Our leaders do not control the tides of history -- they are just surfing them. They are doing their best to keep on top of them. They do not make the tides -- the tides of history come from a million different vectors: our advancing technology, our advancing worldview. These are the things that actually make a difference to the flow of history, and our leaders try to sit on top of it, and perhaps try to give the impression that they are controlling it, but history's history.

- Alan Moore

I think it's competely possible for public opinion towards buy-to-let and state regulation of buy-to-let to be changing in tandem as an inevitable result of the pressures caused by buy-to-let itself, no conspiracy theories needed.

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The Daily Mail's parent company is dmg media

dmg media owns 32% of Zoopla Property Group.

Zoopla Property Group's brands include Zoopla, PrimeLocation, SmartNewHomes, HomesOverseas and AllTheAgents.

dmg media's parent company is Daily Mail and General Trust (DMGT)

DMGT also owns dmg information, which had £215m of property-related revenues in 2014.

dmg information owns Landmark Information Group which has a number of divisions providing services to the UK residential and commercial property sectors, and also mortgage lenders.

Landmark Information Group owns Landmark Analytics (formerly Calnea Analytics), which devised the Land Registry house price index and now acts as the statistical consultant to the Land Reg. The company provides residential property market data, analysis and valuation services to the government, mortgage lenders, estate agents, surveyors and the general public.

Landmark Analytics owns mouseprice.com.

Holey moley! Thanks.

I had no idea.

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Help to buy - incredibly scummy as it is attracted a few absolute fiscal numpties whilst making a killing for owners of shares in house builders, and helped win an election. It's continued existance, but completely lack of promotion post election is probably nothing more than a political face saving exercise.

One 'positive 'about help to buy - It will also serve in years to come as an absolutely brilliant historical example in how markets are fuelled by credit and how prices are set at the margin. Anyone who still talks about 'supply and demand' of buyers and stock being the only factor after the textbook example of help to buy should immediately be informed that their opinion is not required.

Edited by Frugal Git

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Hypothesis: Government about to crash the housing market and setting up BTL landlords as the target of the peoples wrath through a subversive propaganda campaign.

Expectation:

  • Negative news stories on BTL: Tax evasion, poor morals, exploitation...
  • Pumping of a 'face' - high profile BTL hate figure. [...]

That's just a brainstorm. I'm not sure I've seen this...yet.

Can the hate figure be two people please? I know of 2 ex-maths teachers?

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Yes you are right - money is flocking to property right. I heard news the Styles and Wood Group (property support services) have had their debt refinanced, and they are starting to get the orders in. 2 News releases out today

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12395337.html

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/12395267.html

To note the stock had been 10x higher than now pre-bust. Closed at 84.5p

Yeah well, BTL smuchBTL.
STY now upto £2 a share. Doubling in one month and then some. What did your BTL do huh huh huh !???!!!

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This is exactly the seminar concept that was all the rage in 2006 and 07. I well remember one investigated by the telly and some bloke in a red BMW X5 (only one in London...) was hounded and wouldn't answer questions.

Fascinating they're back again. At the same point in the cycle, it would appear.

What happens next? Tough one.

Edited by Killer Bunny

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If the government wanted a HPC, why don't they just withdraw HTB?

Help to Buy is seen by young people as a good thing.

BTL Landords are seen by young people as a bad thing.

The Govt can crash the market by targeting BTL landlords, meaning that the value of HTB goes down anyway. Buy a £200k house with a 10% deposit and you need £10k (HMG provides the other £10k)

Buy a £100k house and you need a £10k deposit with nothing coming from the government and you own 10%, not 5%.

So when prices come down, that's when i think HTB will be retired.

I'm sure it is total coincidence but....

1. BTL changes don't come into force in totality until 2020

2. HTB will run until 2020

Probably just prudence on Osborne's part to announce a limit to HTBs lifetime. But maybe, just maybe, he expects the market to be down at a level where HTB is completely unnecessary.

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