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Btl Scum Regrouping And On The Offensive. -- Merged


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2 hours ago, Bland Unsight said:

In order to establish your credibility with other posters.

It wasn't me who suggested that you were Venger, it's actually @thewig who keeps suggesting that your are Venger.

I'm raising reasonable questions.

  1. Given that you aren't Venger, why are you imitating Venger?
  2. Given that other posters keep suggesting that you are Venger (even though you aren't Venger) why don't you address those suggestions?

By continually ducking the issue you're just going to make people more and more suspicious.

 

Venger has a very unique writing style, and while Mossie is trying to impersonate him, he does a bad job. After reading a few posts you can tell he is not Venger. Even though Mossie does a bad job, Venger’s style is so unique that it is extremely unlikely another’s writing style would be similar, making it obvious that Mossie is trying (and failing) to imitate her.

Question you have to ask is, for what reason would someone do this? I can’t think of any legitimate reason that does not involve trying to disrupt these boards.

is it Busta? I’m not sure Busta has the wherewithal to be honest. He’s a **** wit of the highest order and likely wouldn’t be able to even achieve what Mossie has....

....but the idea of Busta spending hours sitting trying to rip-off Venger, while simultaneously posting on PoveryL8R what a great time he’s having in Malta does make me chuckle...

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Dont really know either, but PT seems like one of the more responsible BTL news-info sites, and forums - in very murky world of property.    There are many property vested interests on murkier si

Although all that 'creating personal brand' pushing many of the BTLers are into... / have been into for years and years. It's used by many other sectors in a similar way - there's a lot in self-p

Previous video in the link below (Landlord 29 years 'experience / greatness'), for anyone who didn't see it first time around + latest round of other BTL comments, although I skipped the ones by PB.

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3 minutes ago, SOLZHENITSYN said:

Venger has a very unique writing style, and while Mossie is trying to impersonate him, he does a bad job. After reading a few posts you can tell he is not Venger. Even though Mossie does a bad job, Venger’s style is so unique that it is extremely unlikely another’s writing style would be similar, making it obvious that Mossie is trying (and failing) to imitate her.

Question you have to ask is, for what reason would someone do this? I can’t think of any legitimate reason that does not involve trying to disrupt these boards.

is it Busta? I’m not sure Busta has the wherewithal to be honest. He’s a **** wit of the highest order and likely wouldn’t be able to even achieve what Mossie has....

....but the idea of Busta spending hours sitting trying to rip-off Venger, while simultaneously posting on PoveryL8R what a great time he’s having in Malta does make me chuckle...

Spot on Solz, it's been amusing me too! :D

I think the date of the account's creation - at or around the same time as Busta was laying into Bland and HPC here: How Three Dozen Morons Influence Anti Landlord Media - and their obsession with laying into Bland as often as possible since they've started posting does speak to the likelihood of their being some form of PovertyLater.

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1 hour ago, oatbake said:

Can we get this back to being the party thread?

Does it matter who may or may not be Venger, or for that matter, Busta? All welcome here!

As per the above I think this has remained the party thread the whole time!

It seems to me that the level of trolling the forum is subject to is a useful indicator of who's panicking and who's feeling desperate - although in this case boredom may also be a factor - so it's actually more worthwhile for us than it is for the trolls, and pretty funny to boot ;)

thewig alluded earlier to some change in Bland's behaviour in recent months, but I think that's looking at things backwards: what's actually changed is the level of BTL trolling. 

Bland has made himself something of a focus of BTL ire - by doing a lot of legwork on BTL finance and regulation, and also by winding them up mercilessly - and he makes a habit of questioning posters that seem like they might be BTL trolls, so when the amount of BTL trolling goes up the amount that he gets into it with BTL trolls goes up also.

If we don't notice the trolls - and differentiate them from normal disagreement and debate - then the whole picture of what's actually going on eludes us.

When an account is irrationally obsessed with having a go at the author of A Goodbye To All That Buy-To-Let then that's pretty telling.

Edited by Neverwhere
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On 20/08/2018 at 16:59, Freki said:

It can just be a statistical issue. Yes it is highly unlikely that people like to post wall of text to argument their stance and that at the same time his main point is that BTL is a conscious decision. 

It is true he could have addressed the issue with a simple: "I am not Venger, I like to write posts that way, and my opinions are how they are"

But it really seems to hit a bad spot for a few here, more because of the way he posts rather than of his arguments.

Final post before on this o/t issue before I keep my future posts to topic.   However it wasn't me who has twice blown his thread off-topic in recent weeks.   First time someone got moody and posted screenshots of me on ignore, and encouraging others to do the same (that's not acceptable behaviour on any main forum imo).

Then the other day I posted a gif representing BTLers being hit by the news of S24 - in response to Mr.Tickle, on the old immovable object and unstoppable force thing

5816469_7946851110_latest.gif

and a post agreeing about the nonsense of the BTLers using GAAP as a shield in their 'no one could ever see S24 coming' claims of BTLer landlord innocence.

Hours later, I come back to the thread and someone is musing I'm Mark Busta BTL landlord.

Freki, on the issues I am glad you seemingly do not disagree with my position on matters of BTLers as capable of knowing what they do, and responsible for it.  It is, you know, quite important, and there are others seeking to make out that the BTLers themselves have had no real agency in what they do.   However it seems to me you can't see how others have been readjusting their positon on matters, and how they are projecting the BTLers as having little to no blame for what they do, and have done.

BTW just because someone refuses to answer a question doesn't mean accusations or suspicions are correct.  :lol:

And the lead up to latest question from someone else accusing me of being "Busta BTLer Tax-Exile".  Followed by accusing me of being a "wannabee BTL landlord".   That's amusing given central argument is that BTL landlords 'Don't think'.   

Why should I answer any more stupid positions against me, when pushed back against the other two (Busta, and that I'm a hopeful BTLer wannabee), and when they have already concluded I am not whoever they are talking about?  And the main thing is my resistance to their big reveals about BTL.  That I disagree entirely with them.  That I challenge their conclusions about BTL.

Innocent people get stopped and searched by police every day.  Innocent people get arrested every day.   I have a note in my wallet.  This is just a little part of it.   I'm not under arrest.   Just clash of viewpoints with one other, who see BTLers in a way I entirely disagree with, and I disagree with blame and responsibility being deflected from the BTLers.   I kept it to the issues.

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If you are stopped and searched under Section 44 of the Terrorism Act, you do not have to give your name, address, date of birth, DNA, or reason for being there.  Nor do you have to explain where you are going.

...If arrested..get a solicitor.  Agree with your solicitor that you will answer no questions.  No comment.  Most people arrested do not end up being charged.  If you have been arrested you are probably not feeling your best or clear-headed.  

"...... for very specific reasons that we do not have to reveal to you."

Have solicitor.  You do not have to spew all personal information and if there is room for interpretation in an answer it can be used against you.   

Thus do not answer and this is why; "I just don't want you to misunderstand my answers."    Solicitor and other questions answered in writing.  If charged you do not want to give away your defence argument, let them find out nearer the trial. 

If you don't disagree with my positions challenging all these notions that BTLers are just mainstream investors who "don't think" about what they do in buying up houses and being BTL landlords and collecting the rent, in Gen Rent Housing Affordability crisis, then that's good.

I have seen posts suggesting we don't call BTLers scum (as a group) and bad names - and all the other stuff which allows some expression for criticism of those who have chosen to be BTLers. 

Now the BTLers are to be  'just normal people' and "BTL is mainstream" - and 'BTL landlords don't think about what they do' - and "BTL mortgages were marketed as a low-risk product" -, and 'if you're allowed to bet with borrowed money on a volatile asset then someone will make money betting on the asset." 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It's not Gen Rent families who are priced out buying one home for their families, renting for years in the 'assets' of the BTLers, who have been doing the betting is it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      It's been the ACTIVE adult choice of BTLers to buy up homes and be BTL landlords.   For them to treat homes as 'assets'' in pursuit of HPI and rentierism.  Millions of homes bought by the BTLers.   £Billions in rent paid up to them each year, on top of house prices being reported at new peaks, and many times incomes of tenants in many areas.

Maybe you should look at the positioning I have been challenging more closely.  Because it's bull-nonsense imo.

We can't be certain if S24 will really bite and what it will do.  I can be certain there are many more solvent landlords.  I have my hopes  of landlording diminishing, but none of us can be certain.  Those who tell us about others who will buy reduced houses for cash, or that institutions will buy the houses, when prices drop a little bit from these extreme price levels, and rent them out. 

It's way too early to have any certainty to how S24 will affect the market and BTL/BTLers in general.   My own BTL landlord is now equity rich.   Yet we now have this hard argument where BTLers don't know what they've been doing, 'safe space on HPC so any BTLer can find out who was to blame if they fail into S24) - when many BTLers them are wealthy today, chose what they do, like what they do, and are TAKING THE RENT each month on one or more BTL properties from tenants, in their chosen investor position as BTL landlords.  BTL was their choice.  Not Gen Rent fault never-owned and 10% graft of savings a year, over may years, after income and paying the rent, in their building society saving account.

Edited by Mossie
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It’s a passable impression of Venger, in that you can tell what they’re aiming for, but it’s ultimately one dimensional. Just studied a few common traits and hammed then up to basically ‘master’ one point/post regardless of what the conversation actually is. Massive troll trait to ignore all questions in favour of just repeating the same message. No variation because they can’t act naturally and it would be defeating the point.

Baffles me who could be bothered with it all but easy enough to just scroll past or block.

Edited by Lavalas
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2 hours ago, Lavalas said:

It’s a passable impression of Venger, in that you can tell what they’re aiming for, but it’s ultimately one dimensional. Just studied a few common traits and hammed then up to basically ‘master’ one point/post regardless of what the conversation actually is. Massive troll trait to ignore all questions in favour of just repeating the same message. No variation because they can’t act naturally and it would be defeating the point.

Baffles me who could be bothered with it all but easy enough to just scroll past or block.

It's not Busta either - not a single spelling mistake in the entire post as far as I can see.

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Whoever it is, it's not Venger.

Mossie has been very insistent in their portrayal of themselves as a longstanding poster breaking the forum rules by running a new account under a new name, and the only plausible reason to do that is to avoid taking personal responsibility for their previous posts and any attendant fallout, hence even under their own story line they don't believe in taking personal responsibility for their own actions.

In the more likely scenario that that Mossie's claims to be a longstanding poster are a work of fiction then they are now failing to take personal responsibility for the fallout of trying to mislead everybody.

Either way, taking personal responsibility for their own actions is something which they demonstrably want to avoid doing, which makes both their impersonation and their preferred line of attack on Bland ring decidedly hollow.

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3 hours ago, Lavalas said:

It’s a passable impression of Venger, in that you can tell what they’re aiming for, but it’s ultimately one dimensional. Just studied a few common traits and hammed then up to basically ‘master’ one point/post regardless of what the conversation actually is. Massive troll trait to ignore all questions in favour of just repeating the same message. No variation because they can’t act naturally and it would be defeating the point.

Baffles me who could be bothered with it all but easy enough to just scroll past or block.

That’s what I can’t get my head around why would any faceless internet poster put so much effort into pretending to be  another faceless internet poster?

if it ain’t vengerbot (i think it is) it’s posts are having the same effect on me as vengerbots ie they get the quickscroll treatment so it might as well be vengerbot ?

 

the only other plausible explanation is this site has gone so far downhill in the past few months / year that the owners are posting mildly inflammatory material ie vengerbot style to stimulate debate and get the click count up

that is far more likely to me than just a random impersonator or a dumb as rocks DEBTjunkie with some sort of a grudge

 

 

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12 minutes ago, thewig said:

That’s what I can’t get my head around why would any faceless internet poster put so much effort into pretending to be  another faceless internet poster?

if it ain’t vengerbot (i think it is) it’s posts are having the same effect on me as vengerbots ie they get the quickscroll treatment so it might as well be vengerbot ?

 

the only other plausible explanation is this site has gone so far downhill in the past few months / year that the owners are posting mildly inflammatory material ie vengerbot style to stimulate debate and get the click count up

that is far more likely to me than just a random impersonator or a dumb as rocks DEBTjunkie with some sort of a grudge

 

 

Nah, that's what the Brexit thread is for.

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3 hours ago, Neverwhere said:

Mossie has been very insistent in their portrayal of themselves as a longstanding poster breaking the forum rules by running a new account under a new name, and the only plausible reason to do that is to avoid taking personal responsibility for their previous posts and any attendant fallout, hence even under their own story line they don't believe in taking personal responsibility for their own actions.

In the more likely scenario that that Mossie's claims to be a longstanding poster are a work of fiction then they are now failing to take personal responsibility for the fallout of trying to mislead everybody.

Either way, taking personal responsibility for their own actions is something which they demonstrably want to avoid doing, which makes both their impersonation and their preferred line of attack on Bland ring decidedly hollow.

Greg B forgot his password and started a new account.   There are others I could mention but will not.   I would not be the first HPCer who previously had another active account and who is not a troll.

I was previously a HPC member, perhaps I have forgotten password to an older account, and have also decided to not to publicly reveal the username, because I have realised it gives more freedom to challenge really important housing issues, and conclusions on housing issues that I fully disagree with.  The issues.  And  have no baggage of former alliances, and those clashed with, to get in the way.  Any former HPC account I had certainly is very dormant. Not used.  (BTW you haven't rushed in to criticise some other very poor form by another in this thread.)

That's twice you've gone that way Neverwhere.  You're not going to stop me challenging weak conclusions on a really minor technicality (I hope), although seems you are attempting it.   

What for?  So you can have a beach community with good data and very few to challenge really VI suspect conclusions.   Conclusions that I am surprised you haven't had anything to post about.   Do you accept them all?  Yes I know there was Homes Under the Hammer.  It alone is not responsible.  They are generally homeowners who feel secure in their finances to buy another home and cause someone else to be a renter, at buying prices beyond Gen Rent.  Mainstream and BTLers who do not think.  They all do it for the money and most of them are homeowners themselves.

And I do so because it seems no one else is willing to do so. It's the issues only that matter to me, and the conclusions.  Also for the good of the forum.  If I don't agree with the conclusion, even from masters of good data, then I will disagree. I care for the forum and I don't accept some really suspect weak conclusions into 2018 on the issues.  Great data perhaps, but it seems sometimes bull**** conclusions, and why would I want it tilted that the BTLers did no wrong and it was all the banks.   

Waited years for something like S24 to catch the BTLers out.  BTL was not illegal, and BTLers kept on buying, and still buying today.  If some of them get caught out by it, it's all their own fault.   They can't be give pass of 'marketed as low-risk investment' / 'totally normal people' into housing financialisation they chose to be a part of.  So I challenge those who come up with big conclusions that do exactly that. 

Homeowners for the most part, and then BTLers with other homes, seeking HPI and always taking the rent, into a housing crisis for Gen Rent.

I'm not exactly feeling quivering from who rarely have the courage to post their position on matters, some who have decided to post elsewhere by choice, and some who have no depth of understanding to the issues.  I stand up for what I believe in, and I am against all things BTL.  Not just the banks who sell BTL mortgages.   

HM Treasury/HMRC made its move in 2015 and that was something a lot of anti-BTL people had waited many years for as BTLers happily piled into again, for years, on creating more Gen Rent.  Hopefully more policy measures to come.  HMRC look to be gearing up to collect taxes.   HM Treasury/HMRC closed some of the passages after enough greed and selfishness had gone into BTL.  The BTLers chose to buy up more houses to become BTL landlords in ever worsening situation for Gen Rent.  Active choice to be BTLers with a housing crisis all around them.

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...earlier so keen to tell everyone how the board should be, to step out of the limelight of the main board and work the trenches arguing for something them believed in, marshalling reason and evidence and not honouring ignorant prejudice for the sake of a nice "beach community".

It's in the title:  BTL scum regrouping and on the offensive.   They chose to be BTLers and they fight for their Rentierism beliefs and their Rentierism side fully.  They would overturn S24 tomorrow if it were in their power, but it is not.  Moves been made against them. S24, to their astonishment and anger.  They chose to buy up multiple houses to be BTL landlords and create Gen Rent.

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10 hours ago, Mossie said:

We can't be certain if S24 will really bite and what it will do.  I can be certain there are many more solvent landlords.  I have my hopes  of landlording diminishing, but none of us can be certain.  Those who tell us about others who will buy reduced houses for cash, or that institutions will buy the houses, when prices drop a little bit from these extreme price levels, and rent them out.

(Emphasis added)

OK, so let's embrace you on your own terms.

You present as somebody who is viscerally opposed to buy-to-let. You inject yourself into pretty much the only public space where those who are clued-up about the misfortunes of the most badly exposed buy-to-let investors meet up to laugh at their misfortunes. But what do you do? You just pollute the public space with meritless verbiage seasoned with the occasional pepper of FUD (see above).

When we think about this conversation here, who are "those"? It's you and nobody else but you.

I feel no rancour towards you. I don't think that the fate of the nation turns on these conversations. It's just a fun place for informed people to shoot the breeze. If you despise me, you despise me. I don't know you so I don't know what to make of what you think. I think that housing matters. I think that the 1988 and 1996 Housing Acts combined with expansion of lending under the so-called Tripartite sytem of regulation was a bloody disaster. I am also certain that if I get hit by a bus tomorrow the future of buy-to-let in the UK will not hit a fork in history and consequently be forever changed. The fundamental tell on VI trolls is that they aren't interested in what's going on, they are interest in influencing other people's assessment of what is going on; they bring comment but not data . Of course, the crazy and impotent degradation of self that involves trying to influence events by trolling me is a bad place and if that is where you are, and I hope that's not where you are, I say sincerely that you need to get some perspective.

This is a thread where we have fun. If you want to row with me I have a thread for that (as you know).

If you are sincere but misguided and you want everyone to know that buy-to-let investors knew what they were doing then here's an easy win - they knew what they were doing.

If you are sincere but misguided and want everyone to know that I believe that buy-to-let investors didn't know what they were doing (BTW, I think they did know what they were doing) then here's a heads up. Nobody cares what I think and nobody cares what you think I think. All that matters is the data (and the laughs).

Edited by Bland Unsight
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43 minutes ago, Mossie said:

That's twice you've gone that way Neverwhere.

That's really odd, I'm sure it's been more than that :huh:

Are these posts not showing up for you?

On 19/08/2018 at 14:03, Neverwhere said:

+ 1

I'll add to that, that although they didn't work up the courage to post until V took a long break from the forum (and appear to have run scared for a couple of weeks when Venger popped back as, not being Venger, they had no idea whether he was going to stick around or not); if you check the dates the sleeper account was created at about the same time as Busta posted his grand conspiracy theory about HPC and Bland Unsight, though he couldn't bring himself to openly name him - How Three Dozen Morons Influence Anti Landlord Media

It seems an unlikely coincidence that the vast majority of the initial posts from a sleeper account created at that time were spent obsessively having a go at BU whilst also struggling to bring themselves to name him directly :rolleyes:

On 20/08/2018 at 19:59, Neverwhere said:

Spot on Solz, it's been amusing me too! :D

I think the date of the account's creation - at or around the same time as Busta was laying into Bland and HPC here: How Three Dozen Morons Influence Anti Landlord Media - and their obsession with laying into Bland as often as possible since they've started posting does speak to the likelihood of their being some form of PovertyLater.

 

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Anyhoo......

link is a post on 118 showing clarity for the 118’ers. A ‘genuine poster’ ? sharing what basically is an advert for 118 tax advice services under the guise of a LL who has save thousands. Just sign up and the coffers keep rolling in.

I think my favourite bit is the first comment suggesting the poster might save more money and Busta jumping straight on the point asking for more details. Surely his clever tax accountants will have the details/clarity or otherwise? Or is it that this is all just google tax advice. 

https://www.property118.com/property-tax-strategy/

S24 really does have so many INTENDED consequences. ??

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12 hours ago, maffo in oxford said:

An example of a once great thread turned into an absolute train wreck.

A couple of pages blipped by a [self described] annoying parasitical insect does not destroy 500 pages of comedy gold.

Definitely not Venger - who is/was a clear thinker - and seldom made a grammatical error, let alone in every [edit: other?] sentence.

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The other day over on PT somebody asked why "landlords are hated". And today, this gem:

https://www.propertytribes.com/man-facing-eviction-hanged-himself-t-127636066.html

...it's like nobody is capable of joining the dots.

 

"I wish 5 of my wrongun tenants had killed themselves.

Would have saved 2 repossessions and losses I will never recover from

Shame they didn't top themselves just after they decided to default on rent.

LL could do with a few more tenants doing the honourable thing and top themselves if they don't intend to pay rent; refuse to vacate and wait until evicted..

A few dead wrongun tenants would do us all a favour.

 As a matter of fact I did have one top themselves.

Thank Christ I had RGI on the wrongun otherwise I would have been bankrupted!"

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1 hour ago, oatbake said:

The other day over on PT somebody asked why "landlords are hated". And today, this gem:

https://www.propertytribes.com/man-facing-eviction-hanged-himself-t-127636066.html

...it's like nobody is capable of joining the dots.

 

"I wish 5 of my wrongun tenants had killed themselves.

Would have saved 2 repossessions and losses I will never recover from

Shame they didn't top themselves just after they decided to default on rent.

LL could do with a few more tenants doing the honourable thing and top themselves if they don't intend to pay rent; refuse to vacate and wait until evicted..

A few dead wrongun tenants would do us all a favour.

 As a matter of fact I did have one top themselves.

Thank Christ I had RGI on the wrongun otherwise I would have been bankrupted!"

Is this satire? I don't see the bit in bold and between inverted commas at the link. 

I can't believe someone would be that much of a ****. Even a parasitic landlord 

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2 minutes ago, stuckmojo said:

Is this satire? I don't see the bit in bold and between inverted commas at the link. 

I can't believe someone would be that much of a ****. Even a parasitic landlord 

I imagine Auntie V came along and tidied that comment away as it spoils the narrative of LL as angelic providers of superior properties to the most vulnerable at below market rents.

Also worth noting, it appears the OP in that post didn't read the story as it's a council flat.

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