Btl Scum Regrouping And On The Offensive. -- Merged

[TheCountOfNowhere]

On 24/05/2018 at 22:33, Dyson Fury said:

And they have had quite a  clearout at the Telegraph :

https://twitter.com/andrew_oxlade

 

It's no surprise.

Plenty being let go in the last 12 months....many more to come.

 

[mrtickle]

ALERT!

 

Quote

CALL TO ARMS!:

Hi ATT’ers. We have been contacted by Radio 4 ‘You And Yours’ show who are looking for small landlords of under 5 properties who are now looking to sell because of the S24 tax changes. Since many of you tell us you are selling up, we were hopeful of getting someone from here to co-operate with the BBC for interview.

If any of you, or anyone you know, is in this position please contact Harry Kretchmer at the BBC in Manchester AS SOON AS POSSIBLE at

[email protected]

Many thanks,
ATT

I would expect "You And Yours" to run this item in the next few days, if they do.

 

Wouldn't it be great it we could get a landlord placed on the programme who could say they are selling up, BUT s24 is the right policy and they fully understand why the government needs to do this, and rents won't go up, and the same number of houses will exist.

 

Also, stand by to call in to the programme on the day, if possible.

 

 

[oatbake]

31 minutes ago, mrtickle said:

ALERT!

 

I would expect "You And Yours" to run this item in the next few days, if they do.

 

Wouldn't it be great it we could get a landlord placed on the programme who could say they are selling up, BUT s24 is the right policy and they fully understand why the government needs to do this, and rents won't go up, and the same number of houses will exist.

 

Also, stand by to call in to the programme on the day, if possible.

It's going to be aired on Friday I believe. 

Not that it will make any difference. S24 is not going anywhere.

They were wrong about rents going up; why would they be right about all the predicted homelessness? 

As I see it, the idea that many landlords will sell up is actually what the government want to see from S24. Most people under 40 want to see BTL reigned in. It would be confirmation that's it's working exactly as intended.

After all, everybody knows that owner occupiers vote Tory and tenants vote Labour. Why on earth wouldn't the government want fewer of the latter?

[Lavalas]

They usual just wheel out Jamie Fraser for You and Yours. Amazing how there’s always one of his tenants prepared to appear too and say exactly the sorts of things they’ve always hoped tenants would say but never actually do... almost ever. 

[oatbake]

The Daily Mash nails it again:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/property-developer-slides-down-large-snake-to-end-up-back-at-home-with-his-parents-20180530173680

[macca13]

Please close the Brexit thread, mass immigration is everything that is wrong with the U.K., not some amazing solution to all its problems.. FGM, terrorists, gang violence, hmo’s, all stem from immigration.  Nothing to do with brits.. let save the country before it’s too late.. 

 

we import 65% of our food and have killed 70% of our pollinating insects.. we already have too many people.. it’s dangerous to increase our population when we don’t have the land to grow the food for those who are already here.. 

hand car wash, amazon, delveroo,Hermes, Uber, starbucks.. all tax dodgers.. we don’t need them or their staff.. 

 

[Lavalas]

Think you might be in the wrong thread mush.

[iamnumerate]

8 hours ago, macca13 said:

Please close the Brexit thread, mass immigration is everything that is wrong with the U.K., not some amazing solution to all its problems.. FGM, terrorists, gang violence, hmo’s, all stem from immigration.  Nothing to do with brits.. let save the country before it’s too late.. 

 

we import 65% of our food and have killed 70% of our pollinating insects.. we already have too many people.. it’s dangerous to increase our population when we don’t have the land to grow the food for those who are already here.. 

hand car wash, amazon, delveroo,Hermes, Uber, starbucks.. all tax dodgers.. we don’t need them or their staff.. 

 

I think mass immigration has been bad for the UK but many problems are not due to mass immigration, there are plenty of brits who abuse the welfare system, not of course a reason to import foreigners to do so as well.

[Bland Unsight]

11 hours ago, macca13 said:

we import 65% of our food and have killed 70% of our pollinating insects.. 

This works as a joke on this thread if we edit it down to this bit and imagine that he's speaking on behalf of the over-leveraged portfolio landlords.

Personally speaking I am not in favour of these portfolio BTL muppets being able to take risks with millions of pounds of bank depositors' money, but if they are also running around killing bees in their spare time, that is not cool 

[macca13]

17 minutes ago, Beary McBearface said:

This works as a joke on this thread if we edit it down to this bit and imagine that he's speaking on behalf of the over-leveraged portfolio landlords.

Personally speaking I am not in favour of these portfolio BTL muppets being able to take risks with millions of pounds of bank depositors' money, but if they are also running around killing bees in their spare time, that is not cool 

Bees are not the only pollinating insects.. any insect can polinate that travels between plants.. 

Land mass of the U.K. will decrease with sea level rise, this process will accelerate with thermal expansion as sea temperatures get hotter water expands. 

water is becoming polluted with plastics and chemicals and areas of the world are becoming much more Barron as we cut down 15 million trees each year.. 

population in areas where we have prevented disaster are rising fast and when the food runs out we will be descended upon by millions of migrants in search of food.. 

our most valuable asset is the one we care least about, our country, our land, our environment..

economy and money will mean nothing once we destroy them.. that’s why we must not have more people to do pointless jobs and prop up tax dodging companies

 

[Lavalas]

I wonder what Gary Dully thinks about the environment.

[Bland Unsight]

58 minutes ago, macca13 said:

Bees are not the only pollinating insects.. any insect can polinate that travels between plants.. 

I think you're a little off topic.

[Bland Unsight]

13 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

I wonder what Gary Dully thinks about the environment.

If he has thoughts about bees he's keeping them to himself, but his thoughts about the BBC are characteristically stimulating.

Source

[Lavalas]

9 minutes ago, Beary McBearface said:

If he has thoughts about bees he's keeping them to himself, but his thoughts about the BBC are characteristically stimulating.

Source

?

Yes Gary. That’s exactly what they want us all to do. We’d all be idiot landlords and idiot tenants together.

[macca13]

17 minutes ago, Beary McBearface said:

This works as a joke on this thread if we edit it down to this bit and imagine that he's speaking on behalf of the over-leveraged portfolio landlords.

Personally speaking I am not in favour of these portfolio BTL muppets being able to take risks with millions of pounds of bank depositors' money, but if they are also running around killing bees in their spare time, that is not cool 

Bees are not the only pollinating insects.. any insect can polinate that travels between plants.. 

Land mass of the U.K. will decrease with sea level rise, this process will accelerate with thermal expansion as sea temperatures get hotter water expands. 

water is becoming polluted with plastics and chemicals and areas of the world are becoming much more Barron as we cut down 15 million trees each year.. 

population in areas where we have prevented disaster are rising fast and when the food runs out we will be descended upon by millions of migrants in search of food.. 

our most valuable asset is the one we care least about, our country, our land, our environment..

economy and money will mean nothing once we destroy them.. that’s why we must not have more people to do pointless jobs and prop up tax dodging companies

 

[Lavalas]

I wonder what Mark Shine thinks about the environment?

[Ah-so]

2 hours ago, Lavalas said:

I wonder what Mark Shine thinks about the environment?

A compassionate individual like Mark Dully. Always put others before themselves, think of society rather than their selfish self-interest. I imagine the same goes for their views on the environment.

[BorrowToLeech]

9 hours ago, Lavalas said:

I wonder what Gary Dully thinks about the environment.

They think they own it. Little bits of it anyway. 

The sad thing, is that people believe them. 

[mrtickle]

Thanks to the team of Axe the Tenant Tax for signposting this for us.

https://www.mortgageintroducer.com/record-number-landlords-selling-buy-let-properties/

Quote

Record number of landlords selling their buy-to-let properties

In April letting agents saw the highest number of landlords selling their buy-to-let properties since records began in 2015, with the number of landlords exiting the market rising to five per branch from four in March.

ARLA Propertymark found in March, the figure rose for the first time in almost a year, to four landlords per branch, after sitting at three landlords consistently since April 2017.

 

[Patient London FTB]

38 minutes ago, mrtickle said:

Thanks to the team of Axe the Tenant Tax for signposting this for us.

https://www.mortgageintroducer.com/record-number-landlords-selling-buy-let-properties/

 

Bonus excerpt from the ARLA report: 

London and Wales - boom!

[oatbake]

Just now, mrtickle said:

Thanks to the team of Axe the Tenant Tax for signposting this for us.

https://www.mortgageintroducer.com/record-number-landlords-selling-buy-let-properties/

 

Indeed... The penny has clearly still not dropped over at ATTT that not only is everybody OK with this outcome, it is the primary goal of the changes. The government has said as much!

I nearly commented to point this out but as much but my past experience with engaging with these cretins is that they are beyond help and inevitably start ranting, parroting the same, boring old dross about me clearly wanting families to be thrown out on the street etc. 

Must not question the BTL gods! 

They really have been living so long in their own bubble that they're totally out of touch with ordinary people/tenants. They have lost their objectivity, which will ultimately be there financial undoing. I think they genuinely see themselves as saving the poor from homeless etc. Everybody else can see the truth; that they create the market that they pretend to serve. The fall of BTL is something to be celebrated.

BTL suddenly reigned in and now, weirdly, house prices are stalling/falling for the first time in years. It's almost like the two things are connected and that Buy To Let actually has inflated house prices after all...

I certainly wouldn't be wanting to be borrowed to the max, holding onto a portfolio of shit BTLs/HMOs in, say, Stevenage right now! S24, falling prices, and very illiquid assets will be extremely painful!

I imagine that most of the HMOs will need a not insignificant amount of work to return them back to family/FTB housing! I can't see many landlords buying up these places without a substantial discount! 

[mrtickle]

Yep! 

But not Cardiff

(She still hasn't replied to the comments on the Moneyweek article. I'm taking that as a confession that she was wrong.)

 

[hurlerontheditch]

57 minutes ago, mrtickle said:

Thanks to the team of Axe the Tenant Tax for signposting this for us.

https://www.mortgageintroducer.com/record-number-landlords-selling-buy-let-properties/

 

Records since 2015?! A whole 2-3 years 

[Pop321]

8 hours ago, oatbake said:

Indeed... The penny has clearly still not dropped over at ATTT that not only is everybody OK with this outcome, it is the primary goal of the changes. The government has said as much!

I nearly commented to point this out but as much but my past experience with engaging with these cretins is that they are beyond help and inevitably start ranting, parroting the same, boring old dross about me clearly wanting families to be thrown out on the street etc. 

Must not question the BTL gods! 

They really have been living so long in their own bubble that they're totally out of touch with ordinary people/tenants. They have lost their objectivity, which will ultimately be there financial undoing. I think they genuinely see themselves as saving the poor from homeless etc. Everybody else can see the truth; that they create the market that they pretend to serve. The fall of BTL is something to be celebrated.

BTL suddenly reigned in and now, weirdly, house prices are stalling/falling for the first time in years. It's almost like the two things are connected and that Buy To Let actually has inflated house prices after all...

I certainly wouldn't be wanting to be borrowed to the max, holding onto a portfolio of shit BTLs/HMOs in, say, Stevenage right now! S24, falling prices, and very illiquid assets will be extremely painful!

I imagine that most of the HMOs will need a not insignificant amount of work to return them back to family/FTB housing! I can't see many landlords buying up these places without a substantial discount! 

This is where S24 is genuis. I know there are calls on threads for S24b and full withdrawal of tax relief ie 0% not 20% and also extension into limited companies.....but I don't believe that needs to come in order for landlords to exit. 

I am not advocating it stays at 20%, rather what I am saying is by limiting it to 20% it provides some political concession and limits the protests. But it very neatly stops the borrowing rot where someone can buy 3/5 (or 50/100) houses on finance and pay very little tax. 

And those with one BTL and with modest 'other income' are largely untouched. Politically this cohort are the majority, they have caused damaged to house prices but their impact is smaller than the 118'ers  

To completely remove debt tax relief on residential property may well happen and it could be easily justified.....but I believe the government is gauging impact of S24 this first. 

SDLT for me is trickier. It will definitely stop some BTL'ers entering the market but it may also halt some exiting. Ie to sell with CGT and an expensive re entry cost (even if not intending re entry it part of the physicology if selling) then might be easier and more cost effective just to hang on to asset because it returns 7% (ie more than rates on savings). This applies to those less impacted by S24. 

Again doesn't mean I disagree with higher SDLT because to me it seems fair.....just may create some inertia with sales.

I personally have sold a lot more than I ever held...and I am still selling each tax year and advocate all landlords do so. But that was always the plan.

I guess it's a wider point in SDLT in that it probably does create inertia for landlords and owner occupiers ie on my own home we save £30k moving costs and extended. 

The main point for me is S24 is so incredibly precise it almost seems genuis in terms of its targeting and its impact.

If interest rates rise to 5% in the next few years (combined with this S24 outcome) then I can foresee a proper a decent crash. IE back to 2003 levels and 4/5 X local incomes. 

Ps agree entirely re HMOs although in my town developers are snapping them up....they must need the work because I would pay 50% of the asking prices. 

Pps Also agree no point talking to a 118'er. I gave up 2 years ago and realised the more they ignore reality the more they will suffer financially. And even then they will blame everyone but themselves.....so no point even arguing with them then because it will have been your fault, the tenants fault, the BoE fault, the markets fault or the governents fault. 

Edited June 1, 2018 by Pop321
Ps and pps.

[winkie]

On 30/05/2018 at 23:37, macca13 said:

Please close the Brexit thread, mass immigration is everything that is wrong with the U.K., not some amazing solution to all its problems.. FGM, terrorists, gang violence, hmo’s, all stem from immigration.  Nothing to do with brits.. let save the country before it’s too late.. 

 

we import 65% of our food and have killed 70% of our pollinating insects.. we already have too many people.. it’s dangerous to increase our population when we don’t have the land to grow the food for those who are already here.. 

hand car wash, amazon, delveroo,Hermes, Uber, starbucks.. all tax dodgers.. we don’t need them or their staff.. 

 

Immigration can be very positive and beneficial to countries, uncontrolled immigration where nobody is counted in or out, where we do not know who lives here or where they live, where immigration has been encouraged by big business to increase profit margins and lower wages, see that local resources become scarse, high competition and demand, pushing prices up and forcing change, the old way of doing things, change is not always better for everyone including immigrants.

We do have enough land to grow all the food that we need but it is more profitable to not grow food for the population....why?

Best try to not use the companies who you feel are unfair or unethical.......if not careful the big boys will price out their competitors, when SMEs will not be viable no longer able to compete.....less is more, small is beautiful......local is better.?