Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Btl Scum Regrouping And On The Offensive. -- Merged


Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Toast said:

Perhaps Rosalind Beck is not a great poster-child for the view I'm about to express here, but I'm actually happy she feels free to mouth off to the powers that be, because this should be true for all of us.

 

So HM Treasury should keep taking her/their letters every week?  They have firmly/politely explained they consider the matter closed.

They have indulged the BTLers, but explained the rationale. 

This is HM Treasury's reply she received last year to the Ros Report.  (And other correspondence before that).

How many pages the Ros Report... 76 wasn't it?

https://www.property118.com/treasury-response-to-section-24-report-by-dr-rosalind-beck/92358/

5fCYcIgmWE.jpg

YrTC5m0fBo.jpg

 

 

And of course she/they (BTLers) continued, and therefore recent run of HM Treasury replies where they state they consider the matter closed.  They are entitled to do so.  

They have other work to be doing, instead of explaining things to people who have strong VI and who do not want to see there are other perspectives and reasoning involved, apart from their 'I should have all the homes' and "think of my unregulated BTL mortgage debts' (that no one forced her to take out, in a market where she doesn't think she outbid anyone else for those homes).

And read the latest demands of the BTLers in their letters......

https://www.property118.com/property118-campaign-team-demolish-treasurys-ill-conceived-arguments/97367/

17 hours ago, Neverwhere said:

It's Gish Gallop and utterly mad.

As with most trolling this tactic is primarily a play to the audience. It's resoundingly pointless if the person whose opinion the Galloper is intent on swaying is the same individual whose ability to respond they are trying to drown out with nonsense. Taken together with the frequent insults and denigrating remarks it speaks to a remarkable lack of interest in actually convincing anyone on the receiving end of such correspondence of anything at all.

giphy.gif

(h/t Pumpkin Muad'Dib for the gif ;))


Put yourself in the position of anyone else receiving such letters after they have explained the rationale.  A business or individual.  Just because their actions do not match what the other person believed to be all the truths of things.  There are limits.

Celebrate the pluck of the BTLers for standing up to authorities with such letters/positioning all you want.....  (the freedom!)

And all HM Treasury has done recently is to thank her/them for their letters/time/report/energies, and explain they now consider the matter closed.   

If the BTLers/Bosher still want to press forward with more letters to HM Treasury/HMRC, that is their/her choice.

BoE/ have not replied nicely to many a HPCers letter in the HPI+++/BTL++++ years.  That was the tilt of power at the time (and still is for many).

 

Quote

It's not like writing to your bank or your local supermarket, where you can rant and call them stupid in an irrational and entitled manner then take your business elsewhere if they don't conform. This is HMRC. 

 

Look again at correspondence between her and the 'Academic' recently...... there are so many gems in there.  

She/they think they are the experts.   Other people disagree.   The Authorities disagree.

The time to understand it was years ago, before buying up house after house, to rent out to other people.  

Also read it all, for there is similar human-shield positioning, as you have used in your own posts, including how we should all be scared of the power/HMRC, for we could be next (implication).   I'm not scared.  Have not over-extended.  I know tax-policies can change.  Others believed reliefs who exist forever, and went on a BTLer house buying double-down, where other people priced out of owning one... their choice.     

Quote

You just typed this:  “In the UK there has been a housing shortage for many years.  BTL landlords have done much to alleviate this” - I don’t think we are going to get much further – but I do now partly understand why you think what you think. because you believe a statement like that above.

On the contrary, I have given you nothing but good information, and experts’ opinions. I have studied this matter in great depth over the last 18 months, and although it is not very British to say this, I do not know anyone who knows more about it than I and my close colleagues do. One of the reasons I wrote the report was to share this expertise.

~I do realise you have spent 18 months looking at this from a particular angle and so you my find me saying that you need to look at the wider picture annoying. You are free to ignore my advice. One penultimate piece of advice that you are also welcome to ignore: Comparing the plight of

https://www.property118.com/guess-who/97391/

 

Edited by Venger
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 13.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Dont really know either, but PT seems like one of the more responsible BTL news-info sites, and forums - in very murky world of property.    There are many property vested interests on murkier si

Although all that 'creating personal brand' pushing many of the BTLers are into... / have been into for years and years. It's used by many other sectors in a similar way - there's a lot in self-p

Previous video in the link below (Landlord 29 years 'experience / greatness'), for anyone who didn't see it first time around + latest round of other BTL comments, although I skipped the ones by PB.

Posted Images

And to just top off the entitlement..... in the push back against Section24 in the 70 page Ros Report.....

:lol:

Even another BTLer picked up on it on Property Tribes....  drop all measures that impact on BTLers... and let us people-farm in full glory.

No credibility.  No understanding imo.  Other people exist.  They are not 'the experts' about Section24 (seeing it only their own way), or the housing market at all ('BTLers providing homes.')  :rolleyes:

Quote

 

This from page 61:

"We therefore demand on behalf of all private landlords:

1. The immediate scrapping of S24.

2. The immediate removal of the 3% SDLT on second homes.

3. The immediate scrapping of the 8% CGT levy on landlords.

4. The immediate scrapping of licencing schemes."

If this is supposed to be a concerted attack on S24 then surely it weakens its credibility by chucking a few other "and whilst we're at it" demands into the mix. You can demand too much, you know, and be accused of being greedy.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, crazypabs said:

Ros had kindly written a report for us all to realise exactly how deep she is in the brown stuff... For your pleasure...

https://blog.upad.co.uk/blog/what-will-happen-to-rents-because-of-section-24-report-rosalind-beck

Thanks, a pleasure indeed. from the comments:

Quote

I'll just add that I'm just putting the rents up for my two tenants for the second time in 2 years for the very same reason. While S24 isn't the only reason, it's certainly a significant factor in having made some changes (putting the properties in joint names with my wife) that have already increased our tax bill slightly but will minimise the effects of S24 for us. 
So no it's not just anecdotal that rents are going up - they are.

Er, yes is it an anecdotal you thick idiot!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Pumpkin Muad'Dib said:

The Bosh appears to be aware of her new nickname!

Getting evicted from the Shelter Facebook page in the same week as getting an official 'die in the a fire' letter from the Treasury. The masterclass continues!

hqdefault.jpg

:lol:

The All-Knowing-About-Housing Bosher is banned from Shelter's facebook page. :lol:

:lol:

I seem to recall a run of posts that we not so nice toward Shelter.  Questioning its purpose and very much against the position of it having charity status.   Other people have their own minds Bosher.   We're not all worshiping the glory of BTLers.   Many individuals disagree with so many of the BTLers 'truths'.

Quote

I am writing my thoughts here about Shelter, because they appear to have banned me from their Facebook page. I can still see their campaigns, but have no right to reply on their site, so have chosen to point out here what I would have written on their page:

https://www.property118.com/personal-view-shelters-latest-anti-landlord-campaign/98146/

Still I am wary of the 'disease' reference, if it was in anyway associated to an individual.  

Difficult to tell from that Twitter exchange.  

On first look does look like the Twitter-individual claimed that for BTLers/BTLing in general (okay with me), but others took it personally.

I'm okay with BTL as a disease on society.

There is a lot to be frustrated about, but we still have to carry ourselves well.  That is the way to win, for otherwise...

This comes to mind.

Quote

 

She nodded after a while. 'They do say there's a danger . . . in warfare,'
she said, 'that you'll start to resemble the enemy.'
She shrugged. 'We just have
to hope that we can avoid that
. If the evolutionary force you seem to believe in
really works, then it'll work through us. If you're wrong, then it deserves to be superseded.'

-Consider Phlebas

 

And I really do not want to resemble any of the positioning/thinking/excuses of the BTLers.  HPC and positive change.

Also this comes to mind...

Quote

~'They've been trying to find out about us ever since first contact, of course, but without any
success. They probably think we have a home planet or something; they themselves are still very much
planet-oriented, using planet-forming techniques to create usable ecospheres, or more usually just taking
over already occupied globes; ecologically and morally, they're catastrophically bad.
The reason they're
trying to find out about us is they want to invade us
; they want to conquer the Culture. The problem is
that, as with all playground-bully mentalities, they're quite profoundly frightened; xenophobic and
paranoid at once. We daren't let them know the extent and power of the Culture yet, in case the whole
empire self-destructs… Still tempting, all the same,' the drone said, as though thinking aloud, not talking to him.

'They do,' Gurgeh said, 'sound fairly…' - he'd been going to say 'barbaric', but that didn't seem strong
enough - '… animalistic.'

~'Hmm,' the drone said. 'Be careful, now; that is how they term the species they subjugate; animals. Of
course they are animals, just as you are, just as I am a machine. But they are fully conscious, and they
have a society at least as complicated as our own; more so, in some ways.

-Player of Games

The BTLers are all individuals who all have their own individual perspective on the world, and other people.

Everyone can make a positive contribution to the world for good, if they choose.  And everyone can practice caution, in a housing supply and affordability crisis for people, rather than make it worse by laying claim to more and more existing homes via BTL debt to rent out and make things worse for other people (IMO).  (Or even off-plan when it has been the BTLers speculating with finance at high prices and still tilt of newbuilds owned by BTLers/speculators since 2000 according to The TImes recently).

Quote

 

Gurgeh shook his head, looking at the prisoner. 'It's a mean old Empire, isn't
it, drone?'

'Mean enough…. But if it ever tries to **** with the Culture it'll find out what mean really is.'

-Player of Games

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, mrtickle said:

Er, yes is it an anecdotal you thick idiot!

 

Exactly my thought as I read that comment on that website. But, the BTLer thinks, that as he has posted an anecdote about his own experience, it is not anecdotal at all, but absolute irrefutable truth.  Not anecdotal.  Oh no.

I've tried to post my own response there - had a spot of trouble with having to supply a "real" email address - so we'll see if that gets published.  "A.B.Tenant" is the name to look out for.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, mrtickle said:

Haven't posted much recently but really enjoying reading this Party Thread.

I look forward to their counter-action, whatever it may be.

 

Same @mrtickle, :)

It is a fun thread, but also one which has revealed how many BTLers react under change of market/policy/tax circumstance.     

It has followed S24 from the beginning, and given such insight into how so many BTLers really see themselves and their positions in the world.

It has all been quite astonishing (for me), although so many individual BTLers parading at a much higher and open level what many of us suspected for so many years.  Big egos, and 'all-about-me' positions.  

And unable to see past their own narrow views.   A bit harsh perhaps, but all too often, showing that they don't really see their tenants as anything other than £Rent-paying-batteries.  Or themselves as Daddy/Mummy figures to tenants, providing homes.   Very little view on individuals who would also like to own a home - vs - BTLers who own their own nice homes, and want to own so many of the homes of other people.

If I have made a few firm posts against the BTLers who tip up to this thread (simply asking them to choose another HPC thread to tell us of their mad-gainz and positive impact on society), it is because this thread is NOT the thread for the conversation they want to have/derail topic.

This thread is for tracking all the BTLers positioning against Section 24... to see how differently so many of the BTLers, and their view of themselves and other people.. and how they fare with their quest to turn back S24.   In time to come hopefully it will be time for a new thread.... BTLers Falling Back/ Scattering and Selling Up Homes.

 

Quote

 This is a tragic story of people becoming wrapped up in their own greed and personal hubris. Even if most of them don't lose their entire financial position, they will certainly have gone through a period of extreme stress and quite frankly even if their financial worries go away, their greed is so obvious they must have nagging self-doubts as they go to sleep each night. That is their true punishment.

A strategy based on nothing other than a reverence of money, and a complete disregard for the havoc wreaked on the lives of others, both by running a very precarious business based on a neverending supply of cheap money to corner a precious resource, and also by completely discounting the potential for upheaval in tenants' lives if(when?) the money runs out.  They ought to be utterly ashamed of their overt avarice and the sooner such insolvent chancers are systematically bankrupted, the better we will be as a nation.

--

Section 24 change / shock / threat to BTLers.... 

The sensation was one of vertigo, a stunning dizziness, a vastly magnified
equivalent of the disorientation which sometimes affects the eyes when they
fasten on a simple and regular pattern, and the brain mistakes its distance from
that pattern, the false focus seeming to pull at the eyes, muscles against
nerves, reality against assumptions. His head did not swim; it seemed to sink,
foundering, struggling.


Who are you? (Who am I?) Who are you?

A mind between mirrors. He was drowning in his own reflection (something
breaking), falling through. One fading part of him...

Marshal forces.
Need clues, reference points, something to hold onto.
Memory of a cell dividing, seen in time lapse, the very start of independent
life, though still dependent. Hold that image.

 


I don't think I am breaking any confidences, but someone in private told me this.... h/t :) :lol:

Maybe some BTLers mistake this thread as  BTL Scum, Regroup here, And do so Offensively!   (& then try to derail topic with strawmen arguments to the brilliance of BTL and their mad-gainz/productive impact on society).

:lol: :lol:

BTLers who do tip up to HPC (and there are many), have choice of many other threads, or to create their own, to tell how great BTL is.

On 10/17/2016 at 11:08 PM, Pumpkin Muad'Dib said:

I think this is the right call.

It's just not the right thread for the conversation they want to have, so if they aren't trolling they can start a thread in the right place and see who's interested, and if they are trolling then as ever the absolute best advice is "Do not feed the trolls". 

 

On 10/17/2016 at 11:19 PM, Pumpkin Muad'Dib said:

Please chaps, consider the possibility that you might be feeding a troll. Two long wittering posts, on the wrong thread, a solid day between them...

Does it really walk and talk like somebody trying to join in the conversation on this thread, or somebody (inadvertently or otherwise) derailing it?

 

On 10/17/2016 at 11:02 PM, Pumpkin Muad'Dib said:

I'm a bit confused as to why you think this is the right thread for your anecdote. There's a sub-forum for that kind of thing.

This thread is for over-gloating at the misfortunes of the PovertyLater [email protected]. Welcome the forum and all that kind of thing etc. but if you don't want to be seen as a troll, you need to avoid disruptive posting. As there's no 'business' being done on this thread at the moment you're unlikely to get anybody's back up with lengthy posts about your BTLs, but it's really not the right place for them.

 

Edited by Venger
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Pumpkin Muad'Dib said:

Anyway, here's an extract from her latest, which she's titled "A personal view of Shelter’s latest anti-landlord campaign". I'll just paste the introductory paragraph, but the whole thing is a rewarding read (and not too long either).

"Shelter’s latest campaign is about mental health issues being caused by housing (by ‘housing’ you can of course read ‘landlords’). What Shelter omits to mention is that landlords also suffer from all kinds of anxiety, depression and so on. When we have awful non-paying tenants – who are often helped by agencies such as Shelter – it feels horrendous"

Is this a window into her current state of mind? As delusional landlords, she really is at the top of the tree. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, btl_hater said:

"Shelter’s latest campaign is about mental health issues being caused by housing (by ‘housing’ you can of course read ‘landlords’). What Shelter omits to mention is that landlords also suffer from all kinds of anxiety, depression and so on. When we have awful non-paying tenants – who are often helped by agencies such as Shelter – it feels horrendous"

Is this a window into her current state of mind? As delusional landlords, she really is at the top of the tree. 

Ros could sell up and get a proper job doing something else. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Venger said:

And unable to see past their own narrow views.   A bit harsh perhaps, but all too often, showing that they don't really see their tenants as anything other than £Rent-paying-batteries.  Or themselves as Daddy/Mummy figures to tenants, providing homes.   Very little view on individuals who would also like to own a home - vs - BTLers who own their own nice homes, and want to own so many of the homes of other people.

I think this tendency towards condescending paternalism may partially explain the BTL landlord approach to lobbying.

Insulting and denigrating people, and trying to wear them down until they give up on responding to individual points by baraging them with an endless stream of nonsense, is a very weird way to approach people whose opinions the BTL landlord might (possibly) benefit from changing; but it could seem like a way to bully people into capitulation without actually convincing them of anything if the BTL landlord believed themselves (madly) to be in a position to exert dominance, or (equally madly) if they believed that playing to an audience of fellow BTL landlords on obscure internet fora was more important than making a genuine effort at swaying the opinions of the people they were writing to.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not intend to re-read the 70+ page Ros Report again....

Quote

On the contrary, I have given you nothing but good information, and experts’ opinions. I have studied this matter in great depth over the last 18 months, and although it is not very British to say this, I do not know anyone who knows more about it than I and my close colleagues do. One of the reasons I wrote the report was to share this expertise.

I remember some of the examples.

Even a few other BTLers can see issues with it, on Property Tribes. 

And it is just hilarious that she then demands for everything else landlords have to comply with to be dropped for good measure.

 

 
Quote

 

26 Oct 2016
I would also add, apropros nothing at all really,  that Caroline (case study 1) has 40 properties cash-flowing at an average £135 per month each, and Chris (case study 2) 15 properties at £89 per month each. If their mortgage rates were to rise by 2% both "businesses" would be under water, with no assistance from S24. 

Just saying.

 

Section 24 Campaign
New Section 24 Report - Download & Share!

https://www.propertytribes.com/new-section-24-report-download-share-t-127626941.html

And woe-betide if Section 24 limits access to child-benefit/free medical because in higher-tax band.  

40 properties (other people's homes).  14 properties.  Just for 1 person/1 couple to sit back in dressing-gowns and have economic control over all those homes (at these prices) with BTL debt.

"How can Section 24 be fair for such great people, providing homes, who are reaping the rent and laid claim to so many other homes via BTL debt.????"

 

Life isn't all about them.

Other people exist.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Neverwhere said:

I think this tendency towards condescending paternalism may partially explain the BTL landlord approach to lobbying.

Insulting and denigrating people, and trying to wear them down until they give up on responding to individual points by baraging them with an endless stream of nonsense, is a very weird way to approach people whose opinions the BTL landlord might (possibly) benefit from changing; but it could seem like a way to bully people into capitulation without actually convincing them of anything if the BTL landlord believed themselves (madly) to be in a position to exert dominance, or (equally madly) if they believed that playing to an audience of fellow BTL landlords on obscure internet fora was more important than making a genuine effort at swaying the opinions of the people they were writing to.

 

Happy tenants from Daddy/Mummy-Nice BTLer.  

It's what we've heard time over from all the BTLers.  (I've read it alot recently).  Including how they take a strong interest in their tenants lives, and apparently even help them out with a bit of pocket money when things a bit short.  (Apparently... easy to project such things, and would prefer tenants not to be in such situation anyway).  HPC and homeownership/lower rents imo.

How they're the best, providing necessary homes, with low-rents (below market rate*) with contracts with little security of tenure.  People would choose to buy in number if affordable.  And few tenants can tell a BTLer they would prefer to own, or have an issue with the BTLer themselves (including creepy ones who want to be pals with their tenants, for don't want to be S21'd).

There was one in the Guardian the other week (comments) claiming he treats his tenants the same way he would expect to be treated... except he's the homeowner (from many decades ago), and he's gone BTL to farm someone younger family's income (for a pension) in HPI+ hot area, with few houses for sale. 

How would he like to be treated that way?   No homeownership for him, and a priced out renter himself.

On 4/14/2017 at 9:48 PM, Father Fred said:

Venger - I can see your point of view that I have taken two homes from possible owner occupation.  But I am able to treat my tenants fairly within the system - ASTs do not force landlords to put the rent up every year or regularly kick out tenants.  You criticised me for entering an immoral market.  I can hold my head up high and say that my current long term tenants are VERY happy.  And they know that I wouldn't hold them to the one month notice period if they had reason to want to leave immediately.  I have always told them I have no desire to have an unhappy tenant. 

 

On 10/17/2016 at 11:43 PM, Neverwhere said:

"Those renting privately (77 per cent) are more likely to show a preference for buying compared with those who are renting from a housing assocation (61 per cent) or a local authority (58 per cent). Nevertheless, for all three ‘renter’ groups the majority would prefer to buy rather than rent." - DCLG, Public attitudes to housing in England

I have far more respect for those landlords who admit that - during a homeownership crisis for younger generations - they are not engaging in a public service by monopolising housing that would continue to exist and provide homes without them owning it, and are in fact acting solely in their own financial interests, including in seeking the economic benefits *that come from retaining good tenants who don't cost them voids and arrears, and to the total exclusion of their anti social impact on wider society.

Very few admit that.  All about 'providing homes' and tenants used as human shields against S24.

On 4/15/2017 at 0:49 PM, Neverwhere said:

:lol::lol::lol:

I've not seen the I don't trust the government  and the government made me do it arguments offered in such quick succession before. Very funny!

I guess no more ridiculous though, than I don't trust financial institutions so I'm going to spend all of my savings placing bets on a heavily financialised market using high risk, economically destabilising, interest-only finance, with no consumer protection whatsoever, so that said financial institutions which I don't trust can ultimately have complete and total control over my ongoing financial well-being. :rolleyes:

Also loving the whole but I'm a left wing neo-feudalist schtick, as if making the people you exploit marginally more comfortable so that they're less inclined to seek to overthrow your exploitation of them is anything other than a self-serving move.

Pity that BTLers couldn't quite get their greed in check to actively fight for such reforms when they thought they might have a minor impact on their profit margins, but are all for going out of their way to publicly advocate for them now that their lack has resulted in political action which they think will cost them even more.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Venger said:

Happy tenants from Daddy/Mummy-Nice BTLer.  

It's what we've heard time over from all the BTLers.  (I've read it alot recently).  Including how they take a strong interest in their tenants lives, and apparently even help them out with a bit of pocket money when things a bit short.  (Apparently... easy to project such things, and would prefer tenants not to be in such situation anyway).  HPC and homeownership/lower rents imo.

How they're the best, providing necessary homes, with low-rents (below market rate*) with contracts with little security of tenure.  People would choose to buy in number if affordable.  And few tenants can tell a BTLer they would prefer to own, or have an issue with the BTLer themselves (including creepy ones who want to be pals with their tenants, for don't want to be S21'd).

It's all such an ego-trip for them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mrtickle said:

Thanks, a pleasure indeed. from the comments:

Er, yes is it an anecdotal you thick idiot!

 

 

This corroborates the stupidity of the leveraged BTL cretin. Virtually nothing it mentions in its article comes even close to a parallel of accuracy.

I can't wait for the fire, they'll dry themselves out with the tears and sleepless nights. They'll burn like Dresden. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

No they won't. They'll just have to work for a living. Maybe rent if they've really over-stretched themselves.

The burning of Dresden was a real world event in which thousands died. This is just some numpties who spent other people's money gambling on sh*t houses.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/10/2017 at 10:40 AM, Pumpkin Muad'Dib said:

The chap she's responding to is about to complete the HMRC graduate training programme (started in September 2013 and will finish in August 2017). He's only on secondment to the Treasury and is on secondment as a Policy Adviser. Mid-twenties, hails from a town just outside the M25. On the modest HMRC package he'll be facing the conundrum of either living at home at 26 or seeing a massive chunk of his salary go on rent to some BTL muppet or taking an on a massive mortgage and a BOMAD loan and probably a HTB equity loan too in order to buy a crappy 2-bed flat with no cupboard for a vacuum cleaner.

Ten seconds with google would have shown these PovertyLater muppets that they are in fact being condescending to somebody who will be back behind his desk at HMRC and may well end up running the team dealing with the 20,000 or so over-leveraged portfolio landlords that section 24 is going to f**k over.

Great plan, Ros. The best plan I've encountered since I heard about a bunch of shitheads buying twenty homes each on interest-only BTL mortgages and then hoping for the best.

 

On 11/17/2016 at 7:57 PM, Pumpkin Muad'Dib said:

I don't understand how the Treasury are resisting?

Let's review the PovertyLater playbook. What could have gone wrong?

  1. Get together a crappy petition
  2. Write loads of seriously aggravating letters
  3. Wear some orange t-shirts at a trade fair
  4. Waste some money on a pointless campaign seeking Judicial Review
  5. Write a dire 'report' predicated on the somewhat problematic assumption that the only people who understand anything are over-leveraged [email protected] recently bankrupted by a tweak to the taxation regime designed to blow up over-leveraged [email protected]

Honestly, I can't see why this isn't working.

I think that there are some other tactics these chaps might try, which in my assessment are a bit more likely to be successful.

  1. Wishing upon a star
  2. Putting on ruby slippers and clicking your heels three times
  3. Hiding behind the sofa

Also, and I only mention this on the off chance, you could always sell some houses to get your leverage down and count yourself lucky that you were able to make a little money riding the credit bubble rather than supposing that you've been robbed of a pension to which you no doubt felt entitled - and then get a proper job and engage with the ludicrous notion that you obtain a future pension income by saving and not by borrowing.

 

 

:lol:

On 11/18/2016 at 0:35 AM, Pumpkin Muad'Dib said:

On that subject, surely the decision to bailout the banks and cut mortgage rates to 2% was a retroactive?

I made investment decisions based on the ludicrous notion that the mortgage market was not run by dyscalculic c**ts for the benefit of other dyscalculic c**ts and therefore decided that 11x income in 2008 was perhaps a little rich for my taste. (In light of later events, and a review of financial history, I realise that this was a little bit naive, and by little I mean f**king hell were you naive as f**k or what?)

Had I known that in fact we'd stretch to an interest-free 40% equity loan from the Treasury supplemented by mortgages anchored to 10 year gilt yields at 0.50% then I might have seen a little bit of method in their madness.

However, just like those fine people over at PovertyLater, I had to operate in a world of uncertainty (uncertain aside from certainty of change).

Unlike those fine people, I am not now looking for a handout.

I've made my bed and I'll lie in it.

Exactly.

On 4/27/2017 at 3:38 PM, Lambie said:

There is nothing further to add to the previous responses to you and therefore, we consider this matter now closed.

Having drafted a number of replies for ministers, I can confirm this is civil service speak for "**** off and die in a fire".

It's also likely that the minister themselves has personally directed not to engage with them any further, which is (or should be) extremely rare.

I've only ever seen it used once.

Even if they come up with a wizard argument in the next 6 weeks, all they will get back is "it's purdah, no comment".

:lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

[...]Long list of BTL narrow viewpoint questions, after yet another HM Treasury reply letter explaining the rationale of Section 24....

https://www.property118.com/property118-campaign-team-demolish-treasurys-ill-conceived-arguments/97367

Quote

As we say, we would appreciate your answering these points, sticking to our numbering. You wouldn’t like to be accused of evading any particular point as it might then be deduced that you have no rational answer to it.

As we are not politicians or game players and thankfully don’t have to engage in the outright dishonesty we observe emanating from the political system of which you are a part (this is not honourable work), we will add that this outrageous policy against the PRS – attacking landlords and tenants equally – with landlords certainly not just taking the hit, as the Treasury implies – will be overturned at some point, so it would be better for all concerned if it were sooner rather than later.

We therefore urge you to pass this correspondence up to the highest level and inform us regarding to whom you have referred it.  This is a matter of such national importance that it should be being dealt with at the highest level, rather than the powers that be sitting back and waiting to see how bad it gets before they act.

We also respectfully suggest that now is the time that we landlords had an audience at the Treasury – that is the least that should happen – so perhaps you can also pass this on as a formal request from the landlords at Property118 to meet with the Chancellor?

 

Quote

Dr Rosalind Beck says

...Thank you for your correspondence dated 10 April about restricting finance costs for
landlords. As it is not practical for Ministers to respond to all the letters they receive, I have
been asked to reply on their behalf.
I appreciate the time and effort that you have put into the correspondence with HM
Treasury and other Government departments. However, previous responses to you have
fully outlined the rationale for this tax change
. There is nothing further to add to the
previous responses to you and therefore
, we consider this matter now closed
.
Yours sincerely,
---------------
Correspondence and Information Rights Team
The Treasury

NB. The seem to think they have the power to suggest the matter is closed. It most certainly isn’t! We’ll badger and hound them relentlessly until this insane policy is reversed.

 

Quote

Dr Rosalind Beck says:

27/04/2017 at 15:55

I am thinking of trying to raise a complaint at their unwillingness to answer legitimate questions.

 

Quote

Dr Rosalind Beck says

 
Just sent this:

Dear Ms Patel.

I find the unwillingness of the Treasury representatives to answer my legitimate questions completely unsatisfactory. Can you please forward me the details of the process to be followed to make a formal complaint?

All the best.
Dr Beck

 

"This is an outrage.  You can't change the rules.  I'm providing homes with BTL debt power.  The houses are mine.  They belong to me and I don't believe I outbid anyone, just went into an EA like anyone else.  I want S24 revoked right now.  Get me a meeting with Chancellor for this highest level stuff.  I know more about it than anyone else.  Turn the tax-reliefs back on... turn the tax-reliefs back on..."

(Some bad language)

 

Edited by Venger
Link to post
Share on other sites

Get the general impression Exiled Canadian is a senior professional....

On 4/28/2017 at 11:20 PM, Exiled Canadian said:

I've used "The Board has noted and considered your comments."  A couple of times

Although it's my understanding Bosher is PhD.

Whether EC or anyone else would employ a BTLer who has petitioned hard against HM Treasury, and later looking for work, is beside the point.

How much income do you need to have buy just 1 house in the Valleys?  

Quite a lot of income for younger people on the renter side -vs- HPI+ on older homeowner positions is my guess.  

Quite a lot of income for younger people on renter saver side -vs- BTLer double-down positions too, 'providing homes' is my guess.

And many BTLers are in position right now, with claims on multiple homes, with housing 'portfolios' worth £millions.

And BTLers who made their own choice to lay claim to 3 properties on the BTL.  Who did their own research and made their own decision to buy 3 BTLs.   Not a world of "95% of people don't do any research" / 'victimhood' and sneery superiority from self-assessed top 5% minds.

What do other people do for their incomes?  Many younger people and some older people work and rent.   Lots of different things.  There is no rule that one has to go back to earning £50K+ to maintain the living standards a BTLer (multiple houses /£ms in asset wealth) is accustomed to.

I am sure there are jobs BTLers in Wales can do, just like many other renters have to do, to pay up the rent for housing in the Valleys.... and many houses owned by BTLers who have bought up loads of them.

I don't believe the answer is allowing the multiple property BTLer to keep the houses on the rent-roll, if they can not pay their tax obligations, or have a massive CGT liability they can't afford.  ('because what else can they do')

And on guess-work many whining BTLers with claims on multiple homes still in position to sell down some homes they've laid claim to, and after all outstanding tax-liabilities, still be very wealthy indeed. 

If not, there is still work available to pay for rent (imo), in many areas of the country.  From cleaning to many other jobs, and hopefully for more younger people in time to come, to pay a mortgage on a more affordable home (HPC / homeownership).

It's like suggesting those who bought flash new cars on finance will be allowed to keep them (if they can't pay their agreed payments) and just pay a token amount, so they can get to work, rather than the flash cars repossessed, because the financed-car drivers need to flash car to get to work.  (Errr public transport... and older cheaper banger car?)

Some of the in-the-top-5% minds see things very differently it seems.

Quote

“It's your road, and yours alone.
Others may walk it with you,
but no one can walk it for you.”


― Jalaluddin Rumi

 

Edited by Venger
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Neverwhere said:

No they won't. They'll just have to work for a living. Maybe rent if they've really over-stretched themselves.

The burning of Dresden was a real world event in which thousands died. This is just some numpties who spent other people's money gambling on sh*t houses.

Metaphorically. I don't believe we'll put them all in a field and area bomb them with incendiaries...... although.......

You are right, they've borrowed other people's money to 'provide' (sh!t) housing to other people. I recall an interview with the Wilsons of Ashford who confessed they'd actually not put any of their own money into the portfolio, it was all 100% mortgages and remortgaging, ad infinitum..... well, hopefully, not forever.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, adarmo said:

You are right, they've borrowed other people's money to 'provide' (sh!t) housing to other people. I recall an interview with the Wilsons of Ashford who confessed they'd actually not put any of their own money into the portfolio, it was all 100% mortgages and remortgaging, ad infinitum..... well, hopefully, not forever.

I was more thinking of them spending their tenants' wages (or taxpayers' wages in the case of Housing Benefit) servicing the interest on those loans.

While it's funny to see how grievously they're panicking it's important to remember that all they are panicking about is that their lives might become slightly more like the lives of their tenants. BTL landlords use their greater access to loose credit to force younger generations to live without security of tenure, kicking up hard-earned wages to neo-feudalist landlords, delaying family formation (and in some cases forbidding it - "no children"), and severely damaging the degree to which an entire generation will be able to look after themselves in old age (as having the opportunity to live in and/or downsize from mortgage-free owner occupation is traditionally the main way in which people secure their own housing requirements during retirement).

They're happy to do all of this to other people. They are petrified that even the tiniest amount of it might happen to them.

If BTL landlords were honestly convinced that what they inflict on working renters is fine then they wouldn't be so mind-numbingly scared of becoming working renters.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said:

To be fair she does have some qualities that an employer might find attractive - she's clearly determined and prepared to put effort into something.  There are are other areas where she might have to "refine" her approach though.

Also, IIRC, didn't she state that she was too sycophantic to be an employee?

I think we're looking for an unusual role and an employer looking for somebody with a particular set of dispositions. I guess she should just keep her eyes peeled for any adverts which begin with "Over-qualified, loquacious toady wanted"

Link to post
Share on other sites

She likes being her own BTL boss.  

She has made her own decisions.

She has been leading anti-Section24 campaigner.

Going from her own positioning, in so many aspects of BTL/Anti-S24, I would have my own views about her suitability as a candidate for the firm I work for. 

Although there is no certainty S24 will affect her position (multiple homes on the rent out), to force her to return to work.   No certainty any HPC.  She was bigging up a recent report about Mad-Gainz HPI ahead, and laughing about those who could buy freezing/jealousy, as I recall it.

And what about the dreams of future BTLers.....?

Quote

Dr Rosalind Beck says:

 

Hi Kathy.
I wonder how many of these would have a deposit and meet the criteria. Out of all of my houses, I can only pinpoint one tenant – who is about 27 and has a PhD in Chemistry and an income in excess of £2,000pm – who could be in a position to buy. The house he rents from me is worth about £100,000, and I think mortgage companies want a deposit of 20% for the best rates. I want to ask if he would like to buy the house, but have no idea if he has a spare £20,000 floating about and if he would want to settle in the area as he is from the east of England and he’s a bit young to settle down; it would also restrict his job mobility. His mortgage payments would be around £325 per month and his rent with me is £485, but then mortgage rates are far more open to fluctuation than rents and he would have to pay for his own maintenance. Since he’s been there, we had to put on a new roof, for example.
On the other hand, there are houses in the valleys which can be got for under £50,000. They wouldn’t be in the ‘good’ areas and the new, young BTL landlord would probably have to let the house to tenants on benefits. And because they use the house more, I think the maintenance issues can be more expensive. And of course the landlord would have to be accredited and licensed in Wales – I don’t know the details yet, but it will involve attending training courses – unless they give the small margin of profit to a managing agent…. I think these surveys should be taken with a pinch of salt. I might be asked – would you like to go and live on a treasure island for a bit? And I might say ‘Yes.’ (although the survey does talk about ‘actively planning – but how much have they saved for example?)
Another interesting point though is how this move by GO is going to dash people’s dreams of getting a BTL or two instead of a pension and/or escaping the rat race and being their own boss (I always hated having a bossnot because I was unruly, but because I was too sycophantic). So it is an attack on aspirations and closing a door for many people.

https://www.property118.com/budget-2015-landlords-reactions/76164/comment-page-295/#comment-62547

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said:

To be fair she does have some qualities that an employer might find attractive - she's clearly determined and prepared to put effort into something.  There are are other areas where she might have to "refine" her approach though.

Who wouldn't want to employ a severe narcissist with a superiority complex? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.