Btl Scum Regrouping And On The Offensive. -- Merged

[iamnumerate]

35 minutes ago, rantnrave said:

Not sure if posted elsewhere?

Property Tribes Discussion - Does BTL deprive families of homes?

https://www.propertytribes.com/landlords-deprive-families-of-homes-t-127635126.html

I like this comment

Quote

The very fact is this is from a Conservative MP

That means hard choices, like ending tax breaks for new landlords

I have said it before and I will say this again This Morning for any New Landlord or and old Landlord expanding Now They must be MAD

This MP will be listened too

The Next Parliament could see the end of BTL be that in a company or an individual name

I will be retired by then and on a good pension  so I will not be relying on BTL to live on

 

 

[Si1]

There's one pink haired landlord on there (not VW) who is very keen to emphasise that landlords simply do not buy the same houses up as owner occupiers. She's a fire eater at a circus type thing near Glastonbury, from her Facebook feed, and likes posting about sharing and positivity and fairies.

 

Loving the cognitive dissonance.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Si1

[oatbake]

15 minutes ago, Si1 said:

There's one pink haired landlord on there (not VW) who is very keen to emphasise that landlords simply do not buy the same houses up as owner occupiers. She's a fire eater at a circus type thing near Glastonbury, from her Facebook feed, and likes posting about sharing and positivity and fairies.

 

Loving the cognitive dissonance.

Many (even most!) landlords I know of seem to be "left-wing" types!  

None seem to stop to question where all the money they make from property actually comes from. For every winner, there is a loser.

I'm looking forward to the shoe being on the other foot in about six months or so!

[Bland Unsight]

18 hours ago, BorrowToLeech said:

Edit: Oh, wait, your quote refers to bitcoin. I’m talking about being paid in champagne. I think that should also be declared. 

Agreed.

Seems that if you engage in a trade in the expectation of making a profit then you have a self-assessment liability for the income even it it is received as barter not cash (link).

No idea about Maltese tax law but if Busta started accepting champagne in place of fees for tax consultancy work and he was based in the UK then given that he has a track record of offering tax consultancy services in a way that seems to fit with the badges of trade and that he clearly does so in the hope of making a bit of scratch he'd have to pay income tax on the cash value of the goods received as barter.

As to the merits of receiving tax advice from someone who thinks that you don't have to pay income tax if all your income is boxes of champagne, I'll leave people to make their own minds up about that.

[Neverwhere]

18 hours ago, BorrowToLeech said:

Yeah, sorry. I knew that, but the quote system let me down. 

I thought that was likely, but just wanted to make sure it was clear for everyone reading

18 hours ago, BorrowToLeech said:

Anyway, thanks for confirming.

Edit: Oh, wait, your quote refers to bitcoin. I’m talking about being paid in champagne. I think that should also be declared. 

Sorry, I misread and didn't pick up that you'd purposefully excluded the bit about bitcoin at the end of that paragraph.

[Neverwhere]

3 hours ago, Jurassic Bland said:

As to the merits of receiving tax advice from someone who thinks that you don't have to pay income tax if all your income is boxes of champagne, I'll leave people to make their own minds up about that.

[iamnumerate]

3 hours ago, oatbake said:

Many (even most!) landlords I know of seem to be "left-wing" types!  

None seem to stop to question where all the money they make from property actually comes from. For every winner, there is a loser.

I'm looking forward to the shoe being on the other foot in about six months or so!

I know a few like that as well.

[BorrowToLeech]

3 hours ago, Si1 said:

There's one pink haired landlord on there (not VW) who is very keen to emphasise that landlords simply do not buy the same houses up as owner occupiers. She's a fire eater at a circus type thing near Glastonbury, from her Facebook feed, and likes posting about sharing and positivity and fairies.

 

Loving the cognitive dissonance.

They dont evict people either right?  When they get sick or lose their jobs. 

Cos that’d be, I don’t know, pretty negative.  

Redundant? Get the ****** out.

All the feels.  Karma.

 

[BorrowToLeech]

3 hours ago, Jurassic Bland said:

As to the merits of receiving tax advice from someone who thinks that you don't have to pay income tax if all your income is boxes of champagne, I'll leave people to make their own minds up about that.

What struck me as really stupid was that you probably can get away without declaring the odd bit of work, but then you might just as well be paid in cash. 

Its not like it’s the wine that protects him from being found out.

So he’s ripping himself off, basically. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by BorrowToLeech

[Mossie]

11 hours ago, rantnrave said:

Not sure if posted elsewhere?

Property Tribes Discussion - Does BTL deprive families of homes?

https://www.propertytribes.com/landlords-deprive-families-of-homes-t-127635126.html

That is a good read, although I am only upto page 9, of 21 pages.   

Wheelpie is giving a really sharp and plucky account on behalf of themselves and Gen Rent Forever, against the BTLers on that Landlord Forum.  Wheelpie knows and has great answers to all the BTLers twisting claims of do-gooding and how the housing situation and affordability problems for 'Gen Rent' are nothing to do with them.  

On 17/07/2018 at 20:50, Mossie said:

Homeownership and multiple BTLs rentals for them, in housing supply shortage they all created, by buying millions and millions of homes to rent out to other people.   It's about how they see themselves, and how little they really care for other people, in creating Generation Rent.   

And many of them work hard to find plausible but bullsh1t reasoning for why they actually do good as BTLers, seeking to protect themselves and their BTL rent seeking positioning, while enjoying homeownership they want. 

One older BTLer does show some sympathy to Wheelpie (and Gen Rents) position, and admits on a Landlord Forum there are BTLers with "an axe to swing".   

However I have read that BTLer's own posts for some time, and they also put themselves first above tenants, and they are one of the much older BTL landlords, with many rental properties.   They even own their own private plane, as I recall it, which they use to go off to their holiday destinations!   All the while, many tenants paying up the rent.  

No real safe-space on any of the many Landlord Forums for any renter.  Drowned out, mocked and .  "Get another jobs and work harder, move to Weston-super-Mare and you can buy a flat for £100,000."  (I have nothing against Weston and have a 2017 video of my family there enjoying a day out on the beach).

No Landlord Forum safe-space to the BTLers own self-serving reasoning for why they are wonderful and great, and there has been no safe space from them in the market for 15+ years.  

One point the HPCer type (Wheelpie) on that Landlord Forum didn't adequately counter was the BTLers claim that OO have no capital gains tax to pay.  BTLer: "FTB benefit from no capital gains tax when they sell."   

That's no use when prices are too high, to break free from the grasp of BTLers, and the prices are so high in large part from BTLers having bought up millions of homes to create Gen Rent.  Some of them MEWing £100,000 to do so, many many years ago, and now owning 20 homes rented out, worth £5 million.   And until recently, Capital Gains Tax was never much of a factor on any Landlord Forum.  Was all about keeping forever.  "Legacy and security for my family."

I didn't like the BTLers response that one area is 'only fit for renting'. The people there, the renters, perhaps would have a lot more to feel good about if they could buy the homes the BTLers claimed, at HPC prices.  £100,000 may sound cheap to BTLers in some areas of the UK, but not to many on renter side who live and work there.

Another BTLer logic fail is the one about BTLers not paying as much as FTBs, and pulling out if bidding gets too high.  Fact are the BTLers have been there bidding, making those would-be owners bid to their highest affordability price.  And it also doesn't stack up when I have seen so many basic homes sell for £300,000 to £900,000 to BTLers themselves, coming back onto rental market, for the past 10 years. 

All the BTLers think, and they think very selfishly of themselves.  Homeownership for themselves, and other homes bought and rented out to create Gen Rent.   Timak's parents-in-law even accepted BTL as a serious issue, but proceeded anyway for the money/profit seeking alone, against their own homeownership and many hundreds of thousands in the bank earning low returns.  They each have their reasons to make problem worse for Gen Rent.  Active, involved, and responsible. 

[Mossie]

I am against all things BTL, but fear more those who believe people don't have minds to think or make their choices.  I am scared of the darkness such 'do-gooders' would take us (the lumps-of-meat who can't be trusted to think for themselves) into if they had their way.

And when many of them have been proven wrong about the housing market for 5+ years anyway.  No HPC, but prices way way up, in one of a really sharp HPI surge. 

Some of their own BTL pals involved, having bought homes to become BTL landlords, and their own mind on it being to give to their children when they reach adulthood.  Buy a rental property in very expensive market, seek tenant, take rent, hope to give child a house when an adult.   That's an active choice.    They thought and they acted on what they wanted, and what they think would advantage them, and with BTL, advantage them over so many in priced out Gen Rent.

Also on that BTL Landlord Forum, on the matter of how recent measures against BTL could cause prices to fall in the future, some BTLers begin hiding behind more recent homeowners.   How they personally, as BTLers, recall the 'suffering' of the previous 90s HPC.

You mean old enough to then ride it through, perhaps upsize into it as one other 'protection from suffering' 1990s visitor here actually did, profit from more HPI, and then buy up homes to rent out along the way ?  

I have close friends who have bought homes in 2017.  A comfortable level of affordability (10 years+ of their own savings, and £25,000 of it Bomad), paying £300,000 for a 1970s family home.  He's nearing 40.  Wife also works full-time.  2 young children.  It was £70,000 more than a near-neighbour paid in 2013 (also with young family).  Had it not been for S24 and other measures, I think they may have been outbid.  BTLers just slightly cooled out of the market, but still very active, and still holding so many homes.

It's a very plain house but really is an okay family home for the long-term.  I like it.  It's the type of home I would like to own.   I helped lift in some stuff.  Was meant to help with some decorating, but didn't have the time, and I am not sure I would be much good at it either.  Needs much by way of modernisation, but they are going to do in stages, when they have the money.  They are happy to be out of renting.  Their choice.  They have two good incomes coming in.

Other friend sold 2014 home for a '£70,0000 profit' and in 2017 traded up to a £400,000 home; and his wife still has a flat she bought in 2006 and has been renting out for 7+ years.  There's a recent inheritance in there too from her Mum, with the proceeds from house sale.  I have no idea what will happen in the market.  Too many people have thought themselves better than others and been worrying about homeowners for 10+ years.  

People have to be allowed to make their own market choice, and be responsible for those market choices.  Too many in Gen Rent just have no choice but to rent against very expensive housing, and BTLers with claims on millions of homes.  And there is no certainty of any HPC.

[Arpeggio]

6 hours ago, Mossie said:

No real safe-space on any of the many Landlord Forums for any renter.  Drowned out, mocked and .  "Get another jobs and work harder, move to Weston-super-Mare and you can buy a flat for £100,000."  (I have nothing against Weston and have a 2017 video of my family there enjoying a day out on the beach). 

Coming from an economic parasite.

 

6 hours ago, Mossie said:

Some of their own BTL pals involved, having bought homes to become BTL landlords, and their own mind on it being to give to their children when they reach adulthood.  Buy a rental property in very expensive market, seek tenant, take rent, hope to give child a house when an adult.   That's an active choice.    They thought and they acted on what they wanted, and what they think would advantage them, and with BTL, advantage them over so many in priced out Gen Rent. 

Their children being able to afford to buy a place themselves seems to be a long lost idea. Do they see this as a "necessary evil" as part of their HPI life plan with an inkling of something being wrong or do they simply embrace Feudalism? I think it's the latter because greed is rarely inconsistent.

[Mossie]

16 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

Their children being able to afford to buy a place themselves seems to be a long lost idea. Do they see this as a "necessary evil" as part of their HPI life plan with an inkling of something being wrong or do they simply embrace Feudalism? I think it's the latter because greed is rarely inconsistent.

So do I.

They should be content to have one home.  Someone fortunate to own their own home and feel financially secure.  Who needs to buy another property, with BTL mortgage, with a mind it's for their baby/toddler to gift them in 21 years time? 

With a plan to rent it out for those decades in a market of Gen Rent priced-outs.   You have to make a stand and I know my position.   They've not panicked into it.  Informed choice they made.  And for many of them, I think they've backed Feudalism and themselves on the winning side of it.

On one BTL forum there was a BTLer who told of her shock when it became clear her own daughter was not happy at her mother being a BTL landlord. 

A BTL landlord with 100 properties.   

All her daughter's friends renting, and her daughter on the side of Gen Rent.   "The Government has to do something."

Wasn't long after that, perhaps 12 months, when S24 announced.   Although in the end I think the daughter did finally accept monies to help her buy her own home.

Captain J-Luc-Picard: 'No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another.'

[Mossie]

Call out someone on their ridiculous conclusions that the BTLers "don't think" before they buy another property to rent out. 

The BTLers *do think*.  It's all upon them to think.   And over so many years, the BTL side have done financially very well from their BTLism.   There has been no trickery here at all.  £700 Billion of BTLer equity in the housing market?

We have to take a position, and I'm very against their BTLism.  I have to think when trying to select stocks/cash for my SIPP, about what companies to invest in, and some companies I refuse to invest in because of what they do.

BTL chums buying another property to rent out, with a plan to give it to their eldest in 20 years time, IS THINKING.   It's just the type of thinking that I very much disagree with, and hope the market, tax changes and local licensing may find out, and have the BTL landlords begin selling all these homes they have laid claim to.

Who is to think for us if we are not to think for ourselves?  You? 

Call someone out on their 'no think' conclusions for the BTLers, and receive the forum equivalent of Dictator action; ridicule, kangaroo court, desiring others to follow their lead with the dissenter to be exiled.  I don't want such people anywhere near power over the masses of people they believe *"don't think"*. 

As I remember it, this video was made by stuckin2up2down. Always loved it.  

The BTLers do think, and they think very much of their own selves to extremes.  If it ever goes wrong for some of the BTLers, then it's all on the BTLers.

They could easily consider what life would be like if the situation was reversed.  Few of them were competing with millions of BTL landlords when they bought their homes, and they had far better levels of affordability, then HPI and MEW.   How they see themselves, and how they see other people, putting themselves first with housing.

[Ah-so]

8 hours ago, Mossie said:

Call out someone on their ridiculous conclusions that the BTLers "don't think" before they buy another property to rent out. 

The BTLers *do think*.  It's all upon them to think.   And over so many years, the BTL side have done financially very well from their BTLism.   There has been no trickery here at all.  £700 Billion of BTLer equity in the housing market?

We have to take a position, and I'm very against their BTLism.  I have to think when trying to select stocks/cash for my SIPP, about what companies to invest in, and some companies I refuse to invest in because of what they do.

BTL chums buying another property to rent out, with a plan to give it to their eldest in 20 years time, IS THINKING.   It's just the type of thinking that I very much disagree with, and hope the market, tax changes and local licensing may find out, and have the BTL landlords begin selling all these homes they have laid claim to.

Who is to think for us if we are not to think for ourselves?  You? 

Call someone out on their 'no think' conclusions for the BTLers, and receive the forum equivalent of Dictator action; ridicule, kangaroo court, desiring others to follow their lead with the dissenter to be exiled.  I don't want such people anywhere near power over the masses of people they believe *"don't think"*. 

As I remember it, this video was made by stuckin2up2down. Always loved it.  

The BTLers do think, and they think very much of their own selves to extremes.  If it ever goes wrong for some of the BTLers, then it's all on the BTLers.

They could easily consider what life would be like if the situation was reversed.  Few of them were competing with millions of BTL landlords when they bought their homes, and they had far better levels of affordability, then HPI and MEW.   How they see themselves, and how they see other people, putting themselves first with housing.

Of course they "think", but it may be a very superficial level of thinking without a genuine understanding of the risks involved and that was probably the original point.

[Bland Unsight]

45 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

Of course they "think", but it may be a very superficial level of thinking without a genuine understanding of the risks involved and that was probably the original point.

Are you sure it's wise to distract somebody when they are dealing so convincingly with a dangerous adversary?

[Ah-so]

1 minute ago, Jurassic Bland said:

Are you sure it's wise to distract somebody when they are dealing so convincingly with a dangerous adversary?

I think that we have had enough tracts on obscure points about the precise meaning of "think" and "mainstream". It is frankly irrelevant in the great scheme of things, and particularly so to this thread.

[Neverwhere]

Oh I don't know, I think the implication that BBC One is a bastion of innovative investment advice for extraordinary and imaginative people is pretty funny 

 

[Si1]

More roundabout BTL woes:

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/dear-graham-norton-can-escape-40-year-abusive-relationship/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1532173565

 

We are fairly well off: we have a nice home in Dorset, a villa in Spain, and a rental property.

[spyguy]

1 hour ago, Si1 said:

More roundabout BTL woes:

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/dear-graham-norton-can-escape-40-year-abusive-relationship/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1532173565

 

We are fairly well off: we have a nice home in Dorset, a villa in Spain, and a rental property.

Alan? Thats a funny name for a woman ......

Split up and halve the assets. Esp. If they are married. Same sex marriage followed by same sex divorce..

 

[Si1]

14 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Alan? Thats a funny name for a woman ......

Split up and halve the assets. Esp. If they are married. Same sex marriage followed by same sex divorce..

 

Would having three mortgages make it a tad tricky? 

[iamnumerate]

21 hours ago, Si1 said:

Would having three mortgages make it a tad tricky? 

Yes very particularly if they are underwater.

[thewig]

22 hours ago, Si1 said:

More roundabout BTL woes:

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/dear-graham-norton-can-escape-40-year-abusive-relationship/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1532173565

 

We are fairly well off: we have a nice home in Dorset, a villa in Spain, and a rental property.

Scumbags.

[spyguy]

3 hours ago, thewig said:

Scumbags.

Daring entrepeneurs.

[Odin]

On 19/07/2018 at 15:25, iamnumerate said:

I like this comment

That means hard choices, like ending tax breaks for new landlords 

Why NEW ?

ALL landlords surely.

 

Yearly LVT for all.

With discounts given to OO and commercial entities paying significant enough other taxation (such as corp tax) in respect of their asset base and turnover.  The amount of discount and to whom should be a new political subject.