pipllman Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Has the divide between London, the south east and the rest of the UK ever been more clearly illustrated? Even without killer bunny pulling out the specific data in the Nationwide thread, it must be clear to almost everyone that the London market can't be compared to other parts of the country nowadays. I can't work out why more people aren't selling up and moving out. Let's say you are 40+ couple, both in jobs paying £80k and living in a house now worth £2m and with a £600k mortgage - and there are plenty of examples of that I am sure. If you sold up, you could buy an equivalent house in most parts of the UK away from London for £500k, clear the mortgage and bank £900k tax free. Dig in to that a bit more. £900k is about 10 years after tax salary for such a couple. And with no mortgage to cover. And never having to go on a rush hour tube / bus ever again. I can understand why they don't: London is happening, all their friends are there, their family might be there too, they would be walking away from infinite HPI and good paying jobs. All the best shopping, theatres, cultural experiences and such like are also there. Sure, it would be wrench and a change. But if I owned property in London I would be planning my way out. That might not mean that I was aiming to sell now, or even in the coming few months, but I would be planning. I would expect to miss the absolute top of the market, maybe even by quite a margin in £k terms. But the fact that it is possible to sell a moderate house in London now and bank enough cash to buy an equivalent house somewhere nice, with enough left over to provide quite a nice investable pot of tax free gain means that missing the absolute top just doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Has the divide between London, the south east and the rest of the UK ever been more clearly illustrated? Even without killer bunny pulling out the specific data in the Nationwide thread, it must be clear to almost everyone that the London market can't be compared to other parts of the country nowadays. I can't work out why more people aren't selling up and moving out. They were...in their droves....last year, I know at least 4 couples....all took on more debt and bought a big house in the S.E. This year. Not so many.None in fact. #ShiresCrashing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's like comparing Manhattan to the rest of the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 It's mental in the same way inner city apartment prices were mental in the regions up until 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renting til I die Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Has the divide between London, the south east and the rest of the UK ever been more clearly illustrated? Even without killer bunny pulling out the specific data in the Nationwide thread, it must be clear to almost everyone that the London market can't be compared to other parts of the country nowadays. I can't work out why more people aren't selling up and moving out. Let's say you are 40+ couple, both in jobs paying £80k and living in a house now worth £2m and with a £600k mortgage - and there are plenty of examples of that I am sure. If you sold up, you could buy an equivalent house in most parts of the UK away from London for £500k, clear the mortgage and bank £900k tax free. Dig in to that a bit more. £900k is about 10 years after tax salary for such a couple. And with no mortgage to cover. And never having to go on a rush hour tube / bus ever again. I can understand why they don't: London is happening, all their friends are there, their family might be there too, they would be walking away from infinite HPI and good paying jobs. All the best shopping, theatres, cultural experiences and such like are also there. Sure, it would be wrench and a change. But if I owned property in London I would be planning my way out. That might not mean that I was aiming to sell now, or even in the coming few months, but I would be planning. I would expect to miss the absolute top of the market, maybe even by quite a margin in £k terms. But the fact that it is possible to sell a moderate house in London now and bank enough cash to buy an equivalent house somewhere nice, with enough left over to provide quite a nice investable pot of tax free gain means that missing the absolute top just doesn't matter. Yes, clearly houses in the rest of the country are too cheap! We need Londoners to spread the wealth! Do you know anyone in this situation? My parents did sell in Walthamstow (4 bed for £605k) but bought another smaller cheaper house (3 bed £380) in an area next door (price still crazy but not Walthamstow crazy). Perhaps the reason move people in London aren't selling, is because the prices are all in dream land and apart from a few oversea investors no one has the money to buy them! I have no idea how the couple who bought my parents house afforded it. Or, perhaps, an even more crazy reason, people just like living where they live and the price of their house doesn't matter to them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipllman Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 London with £600k debt and potential equity of £1.4m vs say, Warwick or Stamford with no debt and £1.4m in the bank / invested I am all for free choice and if someone chooses the former, good for them. But I am surprised that more don't seem to be going for the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Lots of Londoners are moving outside of London....Norfolk has always been popular, so has the South West also overseas beckons......There will always be plenty of international money that can and will buy London Houses, until they will no longer buy because they will find there is something or some other place far more lucrative..... Buy low sell high......Quality of life counts for a lot........thousands that own in London no longer or have never lived in London....speaks volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canbuywontbuy Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 When things don't happen as you expect them to, it's your perception that is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 When things don't happen as you expect them to, it's your perception that is wrong. How very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renting til I die Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 London with £600k debt and potential equity of £1.4m vs say, Warwick or Stamford with no debt and £1.4m in the bank / invested I am all for free choice and if someone chooses the former, good for them. But I am surprised that more don't seem to be going for the latter. Well it won't be that much because after the 600k debt was paid back the new house would have to be bought out of the equity. OP says 900k, still a lot, a lot more than most people would ever think of saving in cash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBound Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I wonder how many who are sitting on thir huge, unimaginable gains are thinking "just one more year of prices rises and then I'll sell"? Not many gamblers on a winning streak ever walk away from the tables! And then when the music stops everyone runs for the exit at the same time... If so we might see be a big leap in supply in the coming months? Nobody rings a bell at the end of a bull market, there is just a growing realisation that there's no more buyers. And then a stampede! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBound Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 But for the record, some of us like living in London despite all it's faults! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbeth79 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 But for the record, some of us like living in London despite all it's faults! :-) +1 For all its faults it is still the best place in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoey1 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 If they did sell up and moved elsewhere in the UK (pay off mortgage etc), do you expect them to continue to work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 (edited) Let's say you are 40+ couple, both in jobs paying £80k and living in a house now worth £2m and with a £600k mortgage - and there are plenty of examples of that I am sure. 9k a month income between them and a 2m home ?? when did they buy 2003 ? Edited July 2, 2015 by longgone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malk Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'm surprised about that many people having left London but I'd certainly have done the same if I'd bagged a massive gain from a house for doing bugger all. I really enjoy living in London but if I suddenly had £500k extra in the bank I'd be working a lot less and have enough time and cash to visit as often as I liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachman Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I'll bite. We live in a house about that value. Wife a bit younger than 40. Me just a tad older. Mortgage (net of liquidatable investments) -£200k. Income is a bit off though. If we moved out to buy a 'decent' gaff in Hampshire or Dorset or Wiltshire we'd probably spend about 1.25-1.4m and my wife would stop work entirely. I would probably downshift and drop income 50-60 per cent. But no debt and a few quid on top in the bank. So why don't we move out and semiretire ? We like it here. Life is here. Friends are here. My sons future is here. Life is not all about maximising return in a property and cashing out. We would have to move somewhere new, start again. Nope. Our backgrounds are both up North. There is NO way we're going bacK there. I keep looking at nice houses with land but..... Probably when son Goes to university,.... We will flog the lot and retire in style.....till then we will keep taking shekels.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Can I asked why you think.your sons future is in one of the most self obsessed, expensive, unfriendly, inefficient places on the planet ? Not picking at you - just seriously wondering where that comes from ? I honestly can't see it. And yes there are lots of good things about London but - ****** me - I have been/worked in at least 10 cities worldwide that piss all over it. Imo of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachman Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I have worked abroad too. Especially the U.S., which I loved. He has friends here too. I know the negative connotations being Northern brought at university and in early career. Rightly or wrongly. He will have so much more opportunity and access to culture and much wider horizons and experience of people by being here than a small village in the middle of relative nowhere..... Am I right, no idea, I may well be totally wrong, but I can't uproot my family unless I am certain it's time to go and we all want to.... At the moment we don't. Part of me gets close to Michael Douglas in Falling Down. I don't do much 'new' these days at work, but it pays well so you keep doing it. And it is a tad dull. But it's also comfortable to stay with what you know..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I decided not to move to London or the south in the early noughties significantly because I couldn't see how I could raise a mortgage deposit quickly enough to catch the upswing in house prices, apparently I'm roughly a million pounds down, mainly due to lack of BOMAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 If you buy at peak prices, not only will you have made a bad deal, you'll get hammered with the inevitable housing tax when the taxing labour becomes fruitless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachman Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 BOMAD had nothing to do with it for us. I arrived having to borrow my months flatshare rent deposit off a mate. I threw myself into work and for some reason, people threw money at me to work for them. Don't get me wrong, we have been luckyish, but we worked hard to be lucky. Our friends are similar.... Arrived at 22-25. Worked hard in the professions in 20s and 30s and now have juniors working hard for us as we shift to senior advisory and client relationship roles..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 BOMAD had nothing to do with it for us. I arrived having to borrow my months flatshare rent deposit off a mate. I threw myself into work and for some reason, people threw money at me to work for them. Don't get me wrong, we have been luckyish, but we worked hard to be lucky. Our friends are similar.... Arrived at 22-25. Worked hard in the professions in 20s and 30s and now have juniors working hard for us as we shift to senior advisory and client relationship roles..... You worked hard at being born in the early 1970s? Que? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 You have no concept of what it takes to be a sperm back then. There was a thread some years ago concerning the mid 1970s birth date cutoff, and the stark wealth and life chance outcome differences that came either side of that cut off Can anyone dig it up? I can't find it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachman Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 You have no concept of what it takes to be a sperm back then. You worked hard at being born in the early 1970s? Que?my wife is late 70s by brother in law is 80s. My neighbour is 80s.... (Born, not in their 80s). I know I chose to do 60-80 hour weeks to get a good name and experience in my profession. I have many peers who chose not to work as hard. They are mainly in 50-60k jobs and are mostly happy enough. But they don't have the flexibility we do.I paid a 28 year old just under 150k a year to do his job in 2014. He is almost a child of the 90s. He is bloody good at his job. And is worth it to our business. And I took a pound of flesh out of him to do so. I have offered jobs to 5 people out of probably 200 candidates I have interviewed in the last 5 years or so. Too many people expect the world on a plate. And too many older people dont accept life IS getting harder to do well, but at the same time, you can get on and do well if you choose to work hard and have some luck.... But please, chips on shoulders about when you were born doesn't really stack up..... It is true that if you come to work expecting to do 9-5 and it just happening, then those days are gone ( I am actually reasonably jealous of my parents ability to get 'rich' and be comfortable by doing working class jobs smartly). So you deal with the circumstances you have and you try to do your best. It ain't easy being green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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