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Guest consa

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Guest consa

Home Information Packs

I believe we have discussed these before - but to continue .................................

These packs are going to be introduced soon (I think April 06) whereby every seller has to have one prepared.

These packs are anticipated to cost around £500 - £1000 each and I suspect this charge will vary around the country proportionately.

I was thinking about this yesterday because a part of my job is producing a part of this pack ie: SAP rating for dwellings, I am not sure what to charge for this calculation but it is reasonably involved:-

A house visit and measure up would be required and information recorded 3hrs

HPC 1/2hr

Computer data input 1hr (probably less)

HPC 1/2hr

print report and issue data 15 mins

HPC 1hr

so to do 1 of these it would take 1/2 day

For an accurate fair price for this would be £140 (based on £35/hr - don't forget plumbers can charge £60/hr)

Now this is 1 section of the pack

There is also the HCR Home condition Report - this will generally be carried out by a RICS surveyor and would be similar to a full structural report - these would cost approx £600 to get.

Then there will be searches and stuff, the agents cut etc etc...........................

These packs are going to be £1000 a piece

Who is going to pay??? It is the sellers duty to pay it or he cannot sell his/her house. How many can afford to do this?? I heard that the agents would pay on some sort of we pay until sold sort of deal - will the agent be prepared to suddenly stomp up £1000 for each property in the shop all at once?? NO

So there could be something looming here where people can't afford to sell or not sell :blink::blink::blink::blink:

Edited by consa

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Guest consa

I think in April next year a voluntary scheme is being run. (Compulsory in 2007).

Although the nearer the compulsory date, buyers can ask for the seller to supply a HIP.

GREAT STUFF. :):):):):)

Quite correct JUNE 07 it is.

http://www.ifaonline.co.uk/public/showPage.html?page=305179

excerpt:

The cost of the packs is widely estimated to be up to £1,000, rather than the £600 touted by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (ODPM).

“On the basis of previous market interventions, it seems likely that a number of people will bring forward their attempts to sell their homes to before the compulsory deadline to try to save money, creating a spike in properties put up for sale immediately before the implementation date,” argues the Cml.

Edited by consa

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Presumably this means sellers rushing to put their homes on the market before HIPs are compulsory. If you want to sell in the next 2-3 years, better to get on with it in 2006 and save yourself £1000 and maybe delays in getting surveys done.

I have wondered why anyone is expecting positive HPI in 2006 given the SIPPs busting (lower demand) and HIPs about to come in (higher supply).

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I was thinking about this yesterday because a part of my job is producing a part of this pack ie: SAP rating for dwellings, I am not sure what to charge for this calculation but it is reasonably involved:-

I rather doubt anyone is going to pay for two different people to come out and look at their home. If you want to get any work, you'd better get yourself qualified as a home inspector too so that you can do the HCR and the energy efficiency report in a single visit.

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I rather doubt anyone is going to pay for two different people to come out and look at their home. If you want to get any work, you'd better get yourself qualified as a home inspector too so that you can do the HCR and the energy efficiency report in a single visit.

Absolutely, the home condition report can be prepared by approved home condition inspectors - not just RICS members. A cartel bites the dust.

On Rightmove's web site it says they are spending £16 million creating a HIPs provision service - so all the agents that use Rightmove will stick their property on Rightmove - press the button to order a seller's pack and, as soon as the seller's pack is available - the property will go live on the site. I think that's the basic idea.

Edited by Marina

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I fully expect estate agents to use the impending arrival of HIPs as a tactic to gain extra instructions next year. This will inevitably result in a continuing oversupply of property for sale.

I wonder if they will really be so stupid as to have leaders in their horrid little property rags saying 'Quick, get your house on the market now before you have to have a HIP.'

Imagine if they do ... you might get 3 months worth of property coming on the market in a month ... nice over-supply situation then!

I wonder what happens to houses that go on the market a day before HIPs become mandatory. Do they have to get one the next day? If not, everyone in the country might as well put their house 'on the market' the day before and just leave it there until they actually want to sell it.

Perhaps I should start a new web site - advertise your house for sale now - and leave it on sale forever, or until the day you actually want to sell - at which point reduce the price from £10million to what it is actually worth.

'Where's the HIP?'

'This house doesn't need a HIP, its been on the market for 5 years - since before the HIPs legislation'

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I wonder if they will really be so stupid as to have leaders in their horrid little property rags saying 'Quick, get your house on the market now before you have to have a HIP.'

Imagine if they do ... you might get 3 months worth of property coming on the market in a month ... nice over-supply situation then!

I wonder what happens to houses that go on the market a day before HIPs become mandatory. Do they have to get one the next day? If not, everyone in the country might as well put their house 'on the market' the day before and just leave it there until they actually want to sell it.

Perhaps I should start a new web site - advertise your house for sale now - and leave it on sale forever, or until the day you actually want to sell - at which point reduce the price from £10million to what it is actually worth.

'Where's the HIP?'

'This house doesn't need a HIP, its been on the market for 5 years - since before the HIPs legislation'

Much legislation contains "loopholes". Have you really discovered one in this?

If so, perhaps you do have a business idea.

However, if you did this successfully, I can imagine retrospective leglislation being introduced to counter it.

Something along the lines of all property having to have the pack by a certain date, even if some property was up for sale before the relevant date.

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I wonder if they will really be so stupid as to have leaders in their horrid little property rags saying 'Quick, get your house on the market now before you have to have a HIP.'

Imagine if they do ... you might get 3 months worth of property coming on the market in a month ... nice over-supply situation then!

I wonder what happens to houses that go on the market a day before HIPs become mandatory. Do they have to get one the next day? If not, everyone in the country might as well put their house 'on the market' the day before and just leave it there until they actually want to sell it.

Perhaps I should start a new web site - advertise your house for sale now - and leave it on sale forever, or until the day you actually want to sell - at which point reduce the price from £10million to what it is actually worth.

'Where's the HIP?'

'This house doesn't need a HIP, its been on the market for 5 years - since before the HIPs legislation'

Why wouldn't people just put their houses on the market now at a ridiculously high asking price....? When they really want to sell they can reduce it down to a sensible level.

That'll be business as usual then....!

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I've just ordered 20 million For Sale boards from China - 18 pence each. I'll be selling them on my new web site 'bolleauxtoHIPs.co.uk' in the New Year.

To prove your house really is for sale, you can go on the site, input a bit of bull about your house and print off some decent looking details. These will go in a weather-proof plastic wallet at the bottom of the sign (patent applied for 10 minutes ago).

Just thought I'd update you as I haven't posted for over a minute now ... just taken an offer of £4m for bolleaux.co.uk

Not bad for 5 minutes work.

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Are the costs of this HIP an upfront cost or is it a cost knocked off the house sale by the solicitor.

The reason I ask is that some people may find it hard to pay this upfront but would do it with ease after the sale.

Might make a difference in deciding to sell or not.

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Guest consa

Also I read somewhere that the HCR would only be valid for 3 months, then you would need a fresh one, a nice little expense every 3 months to add to the misery of holding out for a stupid price.

I rather doubt anyone is going to pay for two different people to come out and look at their home. If you want to get any work, you'd better get yourself qualified as a home inspector too so that you can do the HCR and the energy efficiency report in a single visit.

My part of this process will be purely performing the SAP rating for dwellings, this will be for Surveyors EA's and whoever is compiling these reports - so I won't be directly dealing with sellers in that respect. I don't think there will be many people doing the calculation for SAP and generally I think these reports will involve two or more visits unless the first inspector can provide all the necessary info to other parties as necessary.

Also to add to this the fee will adjust depending on the size and nature of the building and I would assume there will be a m2 charge implemented.

Will HIPs also apply with private sales?

Yes, I believe so - as far as I am aware it will become part of the legal process and will include LR Search etc etc so it will be necessary

Are the costs of this HIP an upfront cost or is it a cost knocked off the house sale by the solicitor.

The reason I ask is that some people may find it hard to pay this upfront but would do it with ease after the sale.

Might make a difference in deciding to sell or not.

It will be a cost from the instruction to sell whether you sell or not, who do you think will stomp up this £1000 until the house is sold? I doubt the agents will be too keen :lol:

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Also I read somewhere that the HCR would only be valid for 3 months, then you would need a fresh one, a nice little expense every 3 months to add to the misery of holding out for a stupid price.

I could be wrong but i think a local authority search is part of the pack as well and these become out of date more or less immediately although for legal purposes they have a life of 3 months.

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Also I read somewhere that the HCR would only be valid for 3 months, then you would need a fresh one, a nice little expense every 3 months to add to the misery of holding out for a stupid price.

My part of this process will be purely performing the SAP rating for dwellings, this will be for Surveyors EA's and whoever is compiling these reports - so I won't be directly dealing with sellers in that respect. I don't think there will be many people doing the calculation for SAP and generally I think these reports will involve two or more visits unless the first inspector can provide all the necessary info to other parties as necessary.

Also to add to this the fee will adjust depending on the size and nature of the building and I would assume there will be a m2 charge implemented.

Yes, I believe so - as far as I am aware it will become part of the legal process and will include LR Search etc etc so it will be necessary

It will be a cost from the instruction to sell whether you sell or not, who do you think will stomp up this £1000 until the house is sold? I doubt the agents will be too keen :lol:

Just for info., ALL home inspectors will have to, as part of their qualification and report, include a SAP report as a matter of course in the home condition report. It will not be done separately, unless required by the seller. Most of us do these anyway when required at the moment.

With regard to Marina's comment about the RICS losing its monopoly, the RICS, against the wishes of its members who hate HIPS, has been at the forefront working with the government pushing the idea. We monthly receive email news from the RICS about how to qualify, what a great idea it is etc. Unfortunately, most surveyors are not taking part. In a conference of 300 surveyors last week, only about 60 raised their hands confirming that they were going to qualify. The RICS is worried that the majority of home inspectors will not come from the profession and there may well be a lack of inspectors when the time comes. So I wouldn't be surprised to see the start date put back. The whole process is causing many surveyors to bring forward their retirement.

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RICS, against the wishes of its members who hate HIPS

Out of curiosity, can I ask why so many surveyors are so against HIPs? Surely it means more work and thus income for surveyors who qualify?

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Guest consa

Thanks for the info surveyor, would the surveyor not sub the SAP part out to a third party to make his job easier? I suspect quite a few would but as you say others will do it themselves.

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Thanks for the info surveyor, would the surveyor not sub the SAP part out to a third party to make his job easier? I suspect quite a few would but as you say others will do it themselves.

The inspector can't qualify unless he can do SAPS. Obviously it's cost effective to take the notes and measurements onsite on one visit.

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Will HIPs also apply with private sales?

My understanding is that you can't market a property without a HIP. So you can sell it to a friend or relative, or someone who comes knocking on your door to ask if you'd consider selling it, but you can't put up a board or advertise it in a newspaper or on the Internet unless you have a HIP.

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Out of curiosity, can I ask why so many surveyors are so against HIPs? Surely it means more work and thus income for surveyors who qualify?

This was discussed some time ago, but happy to reply. Surveyors hate HIPS because:

1)Conflict of interest. Who's paying your fee? The vendor. Who's property are you criticising? And who's not going to be a happy bunny when you provide and impartial critical report? Who's going to be less happy when it comes to paying your fee?

2) Double liability exposure. You now have a duty of care to 2 parties instead of one. Possibly more. Double the risk of litigation which will reflect in professional indemnity insurance, already sky high.

3) Pressure from selling agent and vendor to alter report. This has happened to us in a dry run about three years ago.

4) Cr@p fees. The ODPM will ensure that this unpopular measure will succeed and will therefore take steps, somehow, to limit fees. All estimates thus far are below what we would expect to get now. No one likes a pay cut!

5) Jo Public will resent it, and by extension, your very presence in his castle (which by the way is by far the best in the road and the only one with a cocktail bar).

6) The work required is seen by all surveyors as dumbing down. I've been doing this job too long, but like all the surveyors I meet, do not wish to do a lesser job for a lesser fee with all the attendant hassle. Who needs it?

7) It's the brainchild of the ODPM (salutes as typing!).

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6) The work required is seen by all surveyors as dumbing down. I've been doing this job too long, but like all the surveyors I meet, do not wish to do a lesser job for a lesser fee with all the attendant hassle. Who needs it?

Does that imply that any buyer will still need a proper survey then?

Peter.

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Guest Charlie The Tramp

Jo Public will resent it, and by extension, your very presence in his castle (which by the way is by far the best in the road and the only one with a cocktail bar).

Well Jo won`t be a happy bunny if after paying you the fee, he is told the house is c**p. :D

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Does that imply that any buyer will still need a proper survey then?

Peter.

No, very few buyers have a survey now. Most will be content to rely on the home condition report (as most now rely on a 20 minute mortgage valuation inspection). But then it's only the biggest purchase of your life, so what the hell....

Gotta go, another repo to do.

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      • down 5% +
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