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Eddie_George

£120,000 For One-Bed Knightsbridge Flat With 80 Day Lease

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A deluxe style, desirable postcode and central location - this London flat would appear to be a bargain at £120,000.
The handsome Victorian red-brick building in gorgeous Knightsbridge is just a stone's throw from Harrods and features all mod cons for one-bedroom living.
The price tag would make anyone hunting in London look again, as on the same street, Lennox Gardens, another one-bed flat is being marketed with John D Wood at £1.295 million.
Of course, it's not quite the amazing deal it seems.
Flat for saleReasonable Ask: The price tag would make anyone hunting in London look again, as on the same street, another one-bed flat is being marketed at £1.295 million
The £120,000 is for the rest of the lease, which is only 80 days.
That's the equivalent to £1,500 per night, which is little more than the cost of the luxury Mayfair Suite in the s*****y Claridge's hotel.
The lease runs out on September 19, one of the shortest to come onto the property market in London.
But there's still hope - the estate agent Plaza Estates say the buyer would be able to extend the lease to a more common 99 years, offering them a chance of a bargain.
Flat for saleBed Beautiful: The handsome Victorian red-brick building features all mod cons for one-bedroom living
"“The current owner has served notice to extend the lease, which means that a buyer should be able to get 99 more years for around £1 million," a spokesman told the Evening Standard.
"In our experience £1.12 million for a long lease would be a normal price for this type of property in this superb location.”
Flat for saleTop Decor: The flat's in gorgeous Knightsbridge, just a stone's throw from Harrods
But Matthew Steeples, London property expert, says that the lease length is a detail that can't be overlooked for buyers in the capital: "The length of the lease can be the killer factor in London property prices.
“A nice three-bed, two-bath apartment near Baker Street station is on the market at just under £400,000 because there is only five years left on the lease. On the long lease it would have been five times more."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/its-just-120000-one-bed-knightsbridge-5974126

Edited by Eddie_George

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I still find it staggering that you pay so much for a flat in London - and you don't even own a part share of the ground it sits on. I have known this for years - but I still can't quite get my head around how people accept this as anything other than theft.

I assume the vast majority of the duke of Westminsters fortune is from this route ?

So let's say I manage to buy land in London - builders pay me x for it. They then built flats for y each and sell them to individuals.

I - at the start of this sale - stipulate that whatever is built - I still own the land and whoever uses it -has to pay me rent for this use - even though they own the buildings - for evermore. Is this honestly how it works ?!

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Remember, there are legal ways to force the extention of the lease although the "marriage fees" with such a short lease are going to be huge.

£120,000 + marriage fee should be ~ OMV of this flat.

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Remember, there are legal ways to force the extention of the lease although the "marriage fees" with such a short lease are going to be huge.

£120,000 + marriage fee should be ~ OMV of this flat.

I've been seeing quite a few similar adverts on rightmove where the purchase price is quite low compared to market, but the detail says something like 'FOR RETIREES ONLY" and the house you 'buy' goes back to the owning company when you die. I thought that sort of advertising was illegal? These have been down near brighton. They will have been freehold, but then bought by a builder maybe?

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Remember, there are legal ways to force the extention of the lease although the "marriage fees" with such a short lease are going to be huge.

£120,000 + marriage fee should be ~ OMV of this flat.

Could you do that with a mortgage? My first thought was previous owners made an oops and let the lease years drop too low. Eg. Anyway else in UK this might be a pain to buy as could npt get mortgage finance. Edited by Ash4781

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I still find it staggering that you pay so much for a flat in London - and you don't even own a part share of the ground it sits on. I have known this for years - but I still can't quite get my head around how people accept this as anything other than theft.

I assume the vast majority of the duke of Westminsters fortune is from this route ?

So let's say I manage to buy land in London - builders pay me x for it. They then built flats for y each and sell them to individuals.

I - at the start of this sale - stipulate that whatever is built - I still own the land and whoever uses it -has to pay me rent for this use - even though they own the buildings - for evermore. Is this honestly how it works ?!

Yes.

I don't fully understand what you're struggling to grasp.

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People are generally OK with the idea that someone is getting paid a ton of money for the square root of F-all. I think we grasp that this is unacceptable that we go out and toil away, sweating blood at the grindstone, and generally sucking up to the boss/customer to earn that money and pass it on to the landowner. I think CCC, and many others on this forum despises that idea!

Win-win for the land owner though, little maintenance/insurance to pay, you get a regular monthly income, AND Capital gains! Where do I sign up!?

Edited by 200p

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Remember, there are legal ways to force the extention of the lease although the "marriage fees" with such a short lease are going to be huge.

£120,000 + marriage fee should be ~ OMV of this flat.

You can also buy the freehold, and the freeholder cannot refuse to sell. Obviously it would be a bit steep in this case. ;-)

I know a couple who bought the freehold of a pair of Edwardian maisonettes in SW London - they had bought one of them with a lease of 90 odd years. IIRC the cost was about £11k - worked out from a formula - plus legal fees, but it was a bit of a tortuous process since the freeholder was apparently absent - had not collected ground rent or made contact for several years.

However it turned out that he was living under another name just a few miles away and at first did not respond to any approaches. But once he realised there might be money in it, up he popped. He probably ended up with sod all though, since there were considerable debts attached to the FH, which was why he was hiding away under another name.

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Yes.

I don't fully understand what you're struggling to grasp.

As 200p says - it just seems a fundamentaly ******ed up system (to paraphrase !!)

We all know we live in a country that has done ******ed up 'rules' - but this one takes the piss.

You buy something of someone for a small fortune - and essentially - they still own it. That's ******ed up beyond belief.

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You don't? It's called a moral compass.

I also don't quite get why the buyers accept these deals ? Or were they all done so many centuries ago there wasn't much of a choice ?

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You don't? It's called a moral compass.

Clearly I lack all conscience, but you'll have to spell it out to me like I'm an idiot. Where's the theft? Where's the immorality? All parties get what they pay for.

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I also don't quite get why the buyers accept these deals ? Or were they all done so many centuries ago there wasn't much of a choice ?

Look at many deals being done now in cities round the world with 999 year leases. They think it's so far away it doesn't matter - but it will one day.

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Look at many deals being done now in cities round the world with 999 year leases. They think it's so far away it doesn't matter - but it will one day.

I see - that probably explains it. Then the 'rights' get handed down from generation to generation and hey presto - people in the future making money from nothing.

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Clearly I lack all conscience, but you'll have to spell it out to me like I'm an idiot. Where's the theft? Where's the immorality? All parties get what they pay for.

It's like getting PCH on a car - whilst also having to pay the full price of it at the same time.

Nobody would do that - it would be nuts. You do one - or the other - or a combination of both (PCP).

'Property' has some sort of special place where people seem happy to get ******ed up the **** by people more or less stealing from them just because 'that's how its always been'.

The sheeple need to wake up and get angry. (And yes sheeple is exactly the correct phrase to use here)

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I see - that probably explains it. Then the 'rights' get handed down from generation to generation and hey presto - people in the future making money from nothing.

I what strange world (or possibly alternate universe) does waiting 999 years to make some money on a flat qualify as hey presto.

I think waiting 10 plus years for HPC is startng to get to some people on here.

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Clearly I lack all conscience, but you'll have to spell it out to me like I'm an idiot. Where's the theft? Where's the immorality? All parties get what they pay for.

With all respect your first reply to ccc was trying to do the same to him. Not nice is it?

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I what strange world (or possibly alternate universe) does waiting 999 years to make some money on a flat qualify as hey presto.

I think waiting 10 plus years for HPC is startng to get to some people on here.

Er arent the leases costs included in the original purchase price ....

And I am talking about London here. I am pretty certain the small number of people (families) who are coining it in from the leases didn't wait 999 years for the pleasure !!!

The entire thing is a scam. You rent something - or you buy something. It's as simple as that. Anything else is a scam.

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For those not au fait with leasehold MSE has a good page:

Freeholders sit around praying you let your lease drop to 80 years or less, as then they rake in the cash. This is because after that you will pay 50% of the flat's 'marriage value' on top of the the usual lease extension price. Marriage value is the amount of extra value a lease extension would add to your property.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/mortgages/extend-your-lease

Edited by Eddie_George

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Look at many deals being done now in cities round the world with 999 year leases. They think it's so far away it doesn't matter - but it will one day.

Are there many deals made before the Norman invasion still in place?

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