Venger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 2009/10. tons of btl repos, lots of threads at the time. Next recession will be the next opportunity but likely only a mild one. Zero chance of nominals falling below 2009. That's a different topic entirely. You see more long-wave HPI with no serious setbacks to these prices, I expect massive HPC bonfire-of-the-boomers (equity wealth) followed by volume lending. After all I am on HPC, so am entitled to stick to my HPC view. Maybe this baby boomer will have to sell her house to downsize, at a lower price... given she no longer has near £50K in savings..'poof' gone to scammers instead of a BTL loss bucket in the North. Followed by other boomer BTLers who've been mistaken to risks in BTL/rents/voids/falling values. The simplest way to find out what they think is to look at the nominal price level. In terms of long run nominal wages and nominal house prices that tells you all you need to know. Will real wages and real house prices oscillate around that? Of course. But if you have nominal debt (mortgage), even during the 1 in 100 years depression we've had nominal price level has risen above central bank target rate. It ought not come as a surprise then that nominal house prices have also risen (and imo over the long run will continue to do so). We know this isn't 1980. We're not coming off high inflation rates, and we know demographics aren't the same as they were post war, so another real terms bubble seems unlikely. Moreover in real terms houses, especially in London/SE are moderately overvalued still. They're clearly not 'cheap'. Against that, this government has done nothing to resolve the supply problem, in fact they've made it worse and wasted 5 years to boot. If a 1 in 100 year collapse in the banking system, and the longest depression in history isn't sufficient to prevent above target nominal price rises then I'd venture that nothing short of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalpyse is likely to do it. Even then, I'd still bet on a Carney put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Wow, just wiring £50k like that without checking with her own solicitor. However people can easily be led on by a good confidence trick and this was certainly that. A very costly lesson to learn, however considering it was all electronic money how hard can it be to track down? Although I do feel sorry for her, its a terrible mistake to have made and she'll never recovery from it. Could have been paid into another account they opened in someone else's name (with obtained details) then wired on abroad. I've heard of very few fraudsters in this type of scam being caught. Good. Here's an idea... make sure you know who you are paying / correct details / sending smaller sum first and confirming. Rather than expect banks/society to reimburse you when money has left scammers account / been withdrawn in cash / transferred onto Nigeria / offshore - because you fell for a scammer's email. Instead of your £120 bucket shop conveyancing deal where you either get scammed sending the money, or conveyancer sends it on to a scammer... don't expect those who paid £400-£500 to conveyancer who take extra precautions/treble-checks to have sympathy for your mistakes. Or similarly with other transactions. Maybe she can claim on her Human Rights, as that thread of yesterday of people who need to have massive compensation for big stress/shock after being made redundant. Edited June 24, 2015 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Bless. It will have been her deposit then.. mortgage on top. BTL magic, and the excuse-givers. Can't see DM mentioning it as a BTL purchase unlike the BBC piece. A single mother has lost her life savings to an elaborate email scam, and it seems none of the financial institutions involved can help her recover the funds.Vivian Gabb, 58, a tennis coach and Pilates teacher from London, was due to exchange on a house in Colchester, Essex, earlier this month when she was targeted.She received an email from what she believed to be her solicitor, providing the firm's bank details and requesting the prearranged deposit of £50,000 - which she paid.Mrs Gabb was purchasing the property in Colchester as an investment, since she is self-employed and has no pension. Her 22-year-old daughter Elisha is still financially reliant on her.Mrs Gabb was able to complete on her property purchase with the help of family and friends, who lent her the £50,000. She is now faced with repaying her debts. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3128084/Single-mother-faces-financial-ruin-losing-life-savings-50-000-internet-scammers-pretending-solicitor.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bland Unsight Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 2009/10. tons of btl repos, lots of threads at the time. Next recession will be the next opportunity but likely only a mild one. Zero chance of nominals falling below 2009. Good to have somebody around with certain knowledge of the future. It really takes the edge of any anxiety on that front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Good to have somebody around with certain knowledge of the future. It really takes the edge of any anxiety on that front. Maybe he's gotten his hands on one of Si1's time machines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Lol Bland Unsight - yeah. Have you seen the scammers email in that DM article? Woo. Rush to pay from that email, some near £50K. Get that BTL. Begin a Crowdfunding campaign to compensate her for her loss. Seems to me even wealthy people claim they have no money when it comes to paying/loss/trying to reclaim. Gift of the Gabb, to try and get sympathy compensation. A search (premium.. last of my credit) only comes back with one address result under a search of her name and London as the location... sold in 2013, but indications the same name lived there from at least 2007. However I doubt it's a match. The RM archived pics for that address don't particularly seem to match her circumstances / unless her daughter has a kid. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html/svr/3115?prop=30796910&sale=49876469&country=england Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Lol Bland Unsight - yeah. Have you seen the scammers email in that DM article? Woo. Rush to pay from that email, some near £50K. Get that BTL. Begin a Crowdfunding campaign to compensate her for her loss. Seems to me even wealthy people claim they have no money when it comes to paying/loss/trying to reclaim. Gift of the Gabb, to try and get sympathy compensation. A search (premium.. last of my credit) only comes back with one address result under a search of her name and London as the location... sold in 2013, but indications the same name lived there from at least 2007. However I doubt it's a match. The RM archived pics for that address don't particularly seem to match her circumstances / unless her daughter has a kid. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html/svr/3115?prop=30796910&sale=49876469&country=england Good detective work Venger. I know people who live in Ridge Road N8 so I'll ask She is also here http://www.coolhurst.co.uk/tennis/tennis-coaching/ Edited June 24, 2015 by RentierParadisio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 As others have said - with the email and account/sort code - it will be very easy for the bank to verify that it's fraud. Also potentially go to the end accounts bank and attempt to chase at that side. Unlikely it will still be sitting there of course. The banks are generally pretty good with these things. I expect she will get it back - perhaps minus 'costs' from her own bank. I got £2k back from my bank when I was ripped off in a dippers in hamburg. I was honest and told them I had intended to pay for one 'dance' and various drinks for the burd (they kept on putting my card through ) and not the 13 or so that were taken. I also told them it was me who input my pin number into the machine each of those times. I got it all back - including the £200 or so I actually meant to pay on the night. If this burd doesn't raise a fraud claim with her bank for the full amount - she doesn't deserve any back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Good detective work Venger. I know people who live in Ridge Road N8 so I'll ask Great. The archived listing pics RM has though.. they just don't seem to correspond with her/22 yo daughter, why I think it's not that likely. You never know though.. could have been her, selling in 2013. Although sometimes RM pin wrong pics to addresses in archive, but Zoopla doesn't have any archive for that address at all. Regardless, we know for a fact she was/has bought into BTL for pension/investment. ccc.. it might not be so simple for nearly £50K, despite your past successes. Mrs Gabb states: 'Halifax has categorically told me they do not consider themselves to be in any way responsible and TSB will not talk to me due to data protection issues.'My solicitors at Barnes & Partners seem only concerned to keep reiterating that their computer security is fine and that they are not responsible. 'The police have absolutely no interest in financial recovery, only catching the criminal.' A spokesman for Halifax explained that this sort of scam is known as 'social engineering'; a non-technical method of intrusion hackers use that relies heavily on human interaction and often involves tricking people into breaking normal security procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Good detective work Venger. I know people who live in Ridge Road N8 so I'll ask She is also here http://www.coolhurst.co.uk/tennis/tennis-coaching/ £33 per hour. Just checked with a pal via phone, and top coach at his Northern good area club charges £27 ph for single coaching. Just another link to confirm my initial findings.. but may be another VG (?) http://www.locategb.com/voters_address2.php?q=13068033 Also thought occurred to me.. maybe it was one of her other BTLs, sold in 2013, but totally letting my imagination get away with me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Surprised by that ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I know people who live in Ridge Road N8 so I'll ask She is also here http://www.coolhurst.co.uk/tennis/tennis-coaching/ Not that it proves/confirms anything, but that tennis club is very close to Ridge Road. ccc, we'll see if one of the banks crumbles to media pressure and compensates her for her own action, or even the solicitor.. or even a mystery HPC benefactor.. but I know my position. Goes to show, you have to be careful / personal responsibility with money/investments, at every stage - rather than some over-confidence banks will return your money paid to a scammer who you pay near £50K from sort-code and account number sent to your email address.. without confirming/telephoning payee to check everything, or other measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddlehead Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Reminds me of Dilbert: The Takeover Newsreader: "Stock are way up again today as every idiot with a phone dumps his lunch money into the market!" Dogbert: "That's ridiculous! Idiots shouldn't have money." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmt Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 The claim is that the money lost was "life savings" and that there is no pension. Seems a bit strange that. Could this have been money released under the new pension rules and is that fact is not being mentioned because in fact many more people will be vulnerable to fraud under the new rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/11715616/Our-300000-house-buying-money-was-stolen.html Kate Blakeley and her partner Marco Faes, both 40, lost £299,000 to fraudsters when buying their first house togetherSolicitors are continuing to expose home buyers and sellers to the risk of a growing form of fraud, email hacking. The proceeds of property transactions are at risk, in many cases running to hundreds of thousands of pounds. Telegraph Money first revealed the alarming phenomenon in May when we reported the case of Paul and Ann Lupton, who had £330,000 stolen when criminals intercepted emails to and from their solicitor. We have since heard from five other victims caught out by similar scams when buying or selling a property with other solicitors. Their total losses exceed £1.2m. • Email hacking: another home-seller robbed of £270,000 • Get a weekly round-up of the best of personal finance Kate Blakeley and her partner Marco Faes, both 40, lost £299,000 to fraudsters when buying their first house together last July. The couple had engaged the Beaconsfield branch of regional law firm Hine Solicitors to assist with the purchase. The firm supplied the couple with an initial information pack that contained its Lloyds bank account details, which it later confirmed in an email. Throughout the purchasing process the firm communicated with the couple primarily via email. Ms Blakeley and Mr Faes, who both work in communications, exchanged on their £965,000 home in Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire, and were due to complete on Monday, July 21. Shortly before then they received an email from Hine saying that its Lloyds bank account was being audited, so the couple needed to transfer their funds to the firm’s NatWest account. Wanting to make sure the request was genuine, Mr Faes replied asking for confirmation of their unique client ID number. He received a reply with the correct details and so, on the Thursday before completion, the couple went to their local Barclays bank and transferred £299,000 to the NatWest account. But alarm bells rang the next day when they received a call from Hine saying the money had not arrived. The couple rang Barclays, which said that the transfer had gone through. It was only when Mr Faes spoke to Hine again that it became clear that the NatWest bank account was in fact fraudulent. Mr Faes said that a staff member at Hine initially admitted to him that the firm’s email system had been hacked, but the company later denied this. By this time it was late on Friday afternoon and Hine advised the couple to notify the police of the fraud. Ms Blakeley said the firm then closed for the weekend and did not provide any out-of-hours contact details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Ms Blakeley and Mr Faes, who both work in communications, exchanged on their £965,000 home in Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire, and were due to complete on Monday, July 21. Their real losses are still to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blod Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 If their sale collapses they might thank their lucky stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I've heard of this a few times. Always solicitors. Sell Solicitor indemnity providers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Strange how you hear stories of people who receive unexpected "windfalls" because of banking errors, they are told that under no circumstances can they consider the money theirs. Yet when the shoe is on the other foot, apparently nothing can be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Apple Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Strange how you hear stories of people who receive unexpected "windfalls" because of banking errors, they are told that under no circumstances can they consider the money theirs. Yet when the shoe is on the other foot, apparently nothing can be done? I don't see any banking error here, the money was transferred exactly as requested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frederico Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I thought the whole idea of electronic transactions was that you could trace where the money goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 "NatWest offered to reimburse the couple for the outstanding £25,000. So while they were able to recover the full £299,000, they are £24,000 out of pocket thanks to additional costs including legal fees." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debtlessmanc Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 (edited) The article goes on to say the police recovered the money from an account in west yorkshire, any arrests made? did the solicitors know anyone in the west yorkshire area? perhaps the same kind of people who repeatedly make fraudulent claims for whiplash injuries in the same area in collusion with damage claims solicitors. just wondering.. Edited July 11, 2015 by debtlessmanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 The article goes on to say the police recovered the money from an account in west yorkshire, any arrests made? did the solicitors know anyone in the west yorkshire area? perhaps the same kind of people who repeatedly make fraudulent claims for whiplash injuries in the same area in collusion with damage claims solicitors. just wondering.. Was the solicitor's miprui? Were the people who received the money mipuri? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Don't give out your email address, so the solicitor has to mail you the old fashioned way. I certainly never communicated by email. Pick up the phone, or speak in person at office, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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