boom_and_bust Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) Hi, My oh my! There is alot of bravado in the air this evening. A couple of weeks ago you seemed like you were going to top yourself with the news about SIPPS and the new landlord business requirements phasing in. Good to see you back and fighting again! Boomer Edited December 13, 2005 by boom_and_bust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 So the whole world of banking and investment is limited to deposit accounts and highly leveraged property? I didn't know property was the only asset class, but I won't burst your bubble, the NIKKEI 225 has returned over 23% in the last three months alone, these are actual returns in a liquid market. If you want us to praise your paltry 7.6% annual return then fine, but others here will pity you for chasing after an underperforming asset class for purely dogmatic reasons, not least because that 7.6% is unrealised, in fact by the time these figures were published a significant chunk has undoubtedly evaporated, kind of makes a 15 min delayed ticker look swift. You remind me of the people who were buying dead dotcom shares after the crash just before they continued to plummet down to zero. The smart money has already moved into new areas, good luck to you though. So did you have £3million invested in the NIKKEI? Always fun to quote things after the fact, it's a very different matter to be in the market yourself. Try being a landlord with people yelling HPC all over the place. My chips are still on the table. Did you have yours on the table? If not, where's my thanks for the few % you got from me via the bank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BandWagon Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Where you guys have all got it so wrong, along with Roger Bootle & all the other doom-mongers, is that things have changed. The AST and the emergence of BTL lending has adjusted the playing field. Imagine if those houses you pay £500k for drop down to £250k, as they were priced 10 years ago. With low interest rates you could generate far greater levels of income, AND, you wouldn't have the property market being flooded by developers cranking out 2 bed flats because their profit margins are currently so high. High house prices are going to ruin the property market, just like they did in Japan, and other countries where things were allowed to get out of control. You should be wishing for lower prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Herbert Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Where you guys have all got it so wrong, along with Roger Bootle & all the other doom-mongers, is that things have changed. The AST and the emergence of BTL lending has adjusted the playing field. Errrmmm hmm...........We'll just file that latest iluminating comment in your "Things are soooo different this time/If you don't get on the housing ladder now you never ever will get the chance again" file TTRTR's? I just can't get over how much time an enormously successful Swedish property developer and resident/ex UK property tycoon/Dodgy Landord such as yourself spends on HPC each and every day week in week out..... With the obviously unselfish desire to re-educate the whole of the UK FTB public out there into the error of their ways. That is a very charitable thing to do TTRTR, considering I am sure any normal person in your position with such secure wealth and income as yourself, would have an encyclopedia sized list of better things to do with their time than post here everyday..... Unless of course your motives are and have always been to buoy public sentiment in favour of maintaining your fading BTL portfolio and in someway blind them into thinking that the nonsensical prices which have been asked for property up until last year were a non reversible and feature based upon strong economic fundamentals. Allow me to recap on your top tips to FTB'rs 1. This is the best and most affordable time you will ever get since the dawn of time to buy a property. 2. If you don't take my advice you will definately never ever get on the housing ladder again. 3. Buy a property and rent it out as your rental returns will always always grow bigger and bigger and bigger each year such that you can afford to give up work at 22. 4. There is no such thing as a market Bubble in property 5. Prices always go up in property and even if they do fall slightly by 20% they will always double the next years FACT! 6. It makes huge economic sense for the UK to have house prices increase hugely each and every year. 7. Things are sooooo different this time. Did I miss any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Hi, My oh my! There is alot of bravado in the air this evening. A couple of weeks ago you seemed like you were going to top yourself with the news about SIPPS and the new landlord business requirements phasing in. Good to see you back and fighting again! Boomer I'm meeting the council tomorrow for my grant application to pay for the improvements required. That'll be your tax money they're spending BTW. No doubt I'll let you all know how my grant application goes, but I probably won't know until Jan or Feb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyB Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Is that net of mortgage liabilities? so to materialise that 7.6 growth, to sell, based on selling costs currently... what are you gonna be making? enjoy!... ENJOY... Easy come, easy go... watch this site... your obviously very worried, hence you posting on here defending it!... Just enjoy that growth, GROWTH... If I just earnt in excess of 300k... i wouldn't be on the net boasting, id be looking for the next investment, afterall, theres 3% to be had next year... what a bargain! go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charlie The Tramp Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 That's HPI CTT, so a measurement of my houses escaping their mortgages. If I were to include mortgage liabilities, I would also have to include rental incomes & therefore have to add more to the 7.6%. Are your BTL mortgages IO or Repayment I'm meeting the council tomorrow for my grant application to pay for the improvements required. That'll be your tax money they're spending BTW. I would imagine LAs will be cutting back on their financing next year to keep CT rises as low as possible to keep the customers happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Errrmmm hmm...........We'll just file that latest iluminating comment in your "Things are soooo different this time/If you don't get on the housing ladder now you never ever will get the chance again" file TTRTR's? I just can't get over how much time an enormously successful Swedish property developer and resident/ex UK property tycoon/Dodgy Landord such as yourself spends on HPC each and every day week in week out..... With the obviously unselfish desire to re-educate the whole of the UK FTB public out there into the error of their ways. That is a very charitable thing to do TTRTR, considering I am sure any normal person in your position with such secure wealth and income as yourself, would have an encyclopedia sized list of better things to do with their time than post here everyday..... Unless of course your motives are and have always been to buoy public sentiment in favour of maintaining your fading BTL portfolio and in someway blind them into thinking that the nonsensical prices which have been asked for property up until last year were a non reversible and feature based upon strong economic fundamentals. Allow me to recap on your top tips to FTB'rs 1. This is the best and most affordable time you will ever get since the dawn of time to buy a property. 2. If you don't take my advice you will definately never ever get on the housing ladder again. 3. Buy a property and rent it out as your rental returns will always always grow bigger and bigger and bigger each year such that you can afford to give up work at 22. 4. There is no such thing as a market Bubble in property 5. Prices always go up in property and even if they do fall slightly by 20% they will always double the next years FACT! 6. It makes huge economic sense for the UK to have house prices increase hugely each and every year. 7. Things are sooooo different this time. Did I miss any? Not picking just the bits that suit you again RH? When you lot acknowledge that THA 1988 and 1996 changed the playing field, you'll be on your way to understanding that the HPC isn't due yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapid Descent Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) You are welcome to post your source, a link to it that is. Source is rightmove, same as yours. Just picked different months for comparison. Like I said, rightmove is noisy, wait for the right month to pop up and you can get a big YoY increase almost anywhere. The page with links to all months is here Dec 2005 is on pg 8 of this pdf, Wandsworth £339,039 Dec 2004 is on pg 12 of this pdf, Wandsworth £315,096 July 2004 is on pg 11 of this pdf, Wandsworth is £333,221 Ave increase Dec 04 to Dec 05, 339039/315096 = 7.6% Ave increase Jul 04 to Dec 05, 339039/333221 = 1.7% Just don't look at Feb 05, will you Seriously, a better way to estimate is to plot a series of these data and do a linear regression (straight line fit in Excel or similar), the underlying figures are too noisy to give a meaningful answer. EDITED TO ADD: of course, I meant Mar 05, not Feb 05! D'oh... Edited December 13, 2005 by Rapid Descent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Are your BTL mortgages IO or Repayment You should know the answer to that. Anyone who has a repayment BTL mortgage isn't making their money work as hard as it can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyB Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 You should know the answer to that. Anyone who has a repayment BTL mortgage isn't making their money work as hard as it can. does any of the rents actually cover the interest payments? Service charges? void periods... everyone is entitled to their opinion, that why I love the net, but the housing market is so hard, its not liquid at all... I just hope you haven't got any flats in your portfolio, as they are just not where its at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) Source is rightmove, same as yours. Just picked different months for comparison. Like I said, rightmove is noisy, wait for the right month to pop up and you can get a big YoY increase almost anywhere. The page with links to all months is here Dec 2005 is on pg 8 of this pdf, Wandsworth £339,039 Dec 2004 is on pg 12 of this pdf, Wandsworth £315,096 July 2004 is on pg 11 of this pdf, Wandsworth is £333,221 Ave increase Dec 04 to Dec 05, 339039/315096 = 7.6% Ave increase Jul 04 to Dec 05, 339039/333221 = 1.7% Just don't look at Feb 05, will you Seriously, a better way to estimate is to plot a series of these data and do a linear regression (straight line fit in Excel or similar), the underlying figures are too noisy to give a meaningful answer. I have 3 things to say to you: 1/ Thanks for the links 2/ Thanks for showing London Loser that so far, I was right that Dec 04 was his best chance to get a bargain. 3/ Thanks for showing us that despite the ups & downs, property always does well. does any of the rents actually cover the interest payments? Service charges? void periods... everyone is entitled to their opinion, that why I love the net, but the housing market is so hard, its not liquid at all... I just hope you haven't got any flats in your portfolio, as they are just not where its at! Please, not another Newbie with these silly questions...... ......no offence mate, but I've had them so many times. 1/ Yes 2/ Yes and a better return on my equity than the bank is offering 3/ What voids? 4/ All houses except where I'm sitting in right now, but I own the whole house that the flat is in. Edited December 13, 2005 by Time to raise the rents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) So did you have £3million invested in the NIKKEI? I have options and spreads that mean I have leverage without having to carry the high level of risk with borrowed money, if an option goes sour then I only need worry about the premium and I can realise my gains within a minute by selling the option, which is rather more appealing than tying up a ton of borrowed money solely invested in an illiquid asset class, something that has such an indeterminate and subjective valuation. You can settle trades quicker than beating rent money out of a proverbial tenant. Always fun to quote things after the fact, it's a very different matter to be in the market yourself. Try being a landlord with people yelling HPC all over the place. If you want to spend your life dealing with whining tenants and worrying about a HPC then fine, some people would rather have an easier and more fruitful life trading in the debt derivatives resulting from your not inconsiderable mortgage debts. Edited December 13, 2005 by BuyingBear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) I have options and spreads that mean I have leverage without having to carry the high level of risk with borrowed money, if an option goes sour then I only need worry about the premium and I can realise my gains within a minute by selling the option, which is rather more appealing that tying up a ton of borrowed money soley invested in an illiquid asset class, something that has such an indeterminate and subjective valuation. If that's true then you must understand you need to dig yourself out of an instant loss with any option & as your time value erodes, the chance of success diminishes. Good luck, but I left options alone a long time ago. I would rather ride the good ship HPI than a Ferrari liable to come off the track anytime soon. Edited December 13, 2005 by Time to raise the rents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyB Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) 1/ Yes 2/ Yes and a better return on my equity than the bank is offering 3/ What voids? 4/ All houses except where I'm sitting in right now, but I own the whole house that the flat is in. 1 ) OK, at what level of interest rates 2 ) What return is that, I didn't think you got a return on NO MONEY 3 ) Voids you will have when the market crash's and your Tenants are buying house's 4 ) you own 4 million worth of property, and you live in a flat!... Must be good being such a high flyer! one thing the missus told me, NEVER BRING YA WORK HOME WITH YA... ever thought about being a caretaker!... PMSL... Good luck rasing ya rents! Edited December 13, 2005 by MarkyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 (edited) I can't believe none of you have thanked me for risking your money to get you your bank return. Edited December 13, 2005 by Time to raise the rents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 You should know the answer to that. Anyone who has a repayment BTL mortgage isn't making their money work as hard as it can. Quality.. I don't belive people should not be able to make money.. so congratulations.. Quite why you feel you should rub it in our faces... I don't know. I don't have much money.. and infact I have spent only £3500 on vehicles. but that is two motorbikes and a car.. I live near dartmoor.. and the SV or the Triumph are more fun then I can believe on those roads.. I know a lot of bikers.. and I have had it confirmed that my ride to work are among the best roads anyone can think of. My car is an old alfa.. nice twin cam 2 litre.. not going to set the world on fire.. but great fun.. My telly is a 20inch thing that cost a tonne from argos.. and my suround sound system is superb for £70... I have the best surfing beaches available near me. I have great friends.. and until she sees sense a beautiful girlfriend... I am fabulously happy TTRTR.. I am here because I am fascinated by the economy and I do need to buy a house.. TTRTR.. You have a great deal of money.. but what do you do for fun? for the only wealth any of us have is the smile on our faces.. I am not trying to say that you are unhappy.. a rigsby character.. but I am fascinated to see what you do for fun.. Fast cars...? (I would have one.. can't afford one.. and a bike is cheaper.. and either of mine would suck the doors of any porche.. ) holidays? hobbies? fun... thats whats important.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Quality.. I don't belive people should not be able to make money.. so congratulations.. Quite why you feel you should rub it in our faces... I don't know. I don't have much money.. and infact I have spent only £3500 on vehicles. but that is two motorbikes and a car.. I live near dartmoor.. and the SV or the Triumph are more fun then I can believe on those roads.. I know a lot of bikers.. and I have had it confirmed that my ride to work are among the best roads anyone can think of. My car is an old alfa.. nice twin cam 2 litre.. not going to set the world on fire.. but great fun.. My telly is a 20inch thing that cost a tonne from argos.. and my suround sound system is superb for £70... I have the best surfing beaches available near me. I have great friends.. and until she sees sense a beautiful girlfriend... I am fabulously happy TTRTR.. I am here because I am fascinated by the economy and I do need to buy a house.. TTRTR.. You have a great deal of money.. but what do you do for fun? for the only wealth any of us have is the smile on our faces.. I am not trying to say that you are unhappy.. a rigsby character.. but I am fascinated to see what you do for fun.. Fast cars...? (I would have one.. can't afford one.. and a bike is cheaper.. and either of mine would suck the doors of any porche.. ) holidays? hobbies? fun... thats whats important.. Sad the assumptions people make. I get great enjoyment from raising my three girls who think a free Dad (one not always at work) is completely normal. Whilst their friends Dad's leave early & arrive late. One day you'll learn that EVERYTHING material that you own & use for yourself is a liability to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I would rather ride the good ship HPI than a Ferrari liable to come off the track anytime soon. You have bet everything on the borrowed cargo of one lagging ship, rather than tens of dozens of Ferraris with a limited number hitting the tyres. I don't believe that slowly drilling holes in the bottom of a Ferrari quite has the same affect as it does with your 'good ship'. I just hope you carry a good number of life boats with you, ones' that don't take 6 weeks to deploy, if the whole lot hasn't beached by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to raise the rents. Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 You have bet everything on the borrowed cargo of one lagging ship, rather than tens of dozens of Ferraris with a limited number hitting the tyres. I don't believe that slowly drilling holes in the bottom of a Ferrari quite has the same affect as it does with your 'good ship'. I just hope you carry a good number of life boats with you, ones' that don't take 6 weeks to deploy, if the whole lot hasn't beached by then. Actually I'm riding 8 slow ships & those Ferraris constantly need new engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I can't believe none of you have thanked me for risking your money to get you your bank return. I will! Well done with your rather ephemeral 7.6% APR doggy bone, you are the best investor in the world, the whole world is impressed... is that enough self-reinforcement? I presume that's the only reason you hang around here. With such unrealised capital and lingering debts you should now be able to afford your own broadband instead of stealing it off your tenants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapid Descent Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I get great enjoyment from raising my three girls who think a free Dad (one not always at work) is completely normal. Whilst their friends Dad's leave early & arrive late. ...and I'll never have to explain* to my daughter why the nasty men from the courthouse have had to come around and take all of their toys away. * note: this is primarily because I don't have a daughter Re: the links, any time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Herbert Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 2/ Thanks for showing London Loser that so far, I was right that Dec 04 was his best chance to get a bargain. 3/ Thanks for showing us that despite the ups & downs, property always does well. Best chance to get a bargain? So he will never ever get on the ladder again sort of thing? Property ALWAYS does well........... didn't do to well after '89 did it TTRTR????? Of course things are different now......how silly of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyingBear Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Actually I'm riding 8 slow ships & those Ferraris constantly need new engines. "Slow" is the operative word, you can hardly see them moving. The U-boats are circling the MBS market, your borrowed money getting more expensive as the banks will ask you to work a little harder for being such a good little custodian, simaltaneously the HPI forward momentum at a standstill. Lets hope your paddle boats don't sink too much below the waterline. Aye Aye Captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apom Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Sad the assumptions people make. I get great enjoyment from raising my three girls who think a free Dad (one not always at work) is completely normal. Whilst their friends Dad's leave early & arrive late. One day you'll learn that EVERYTHING material that you own & use for yourself is a liability to you. Point made.. bikes are material.. but I can buy a wreck and fix it.. I enjoy the hardwork.. so the cost is immaterial.. I was trying to indicate that money is not important.. well thats rubbish.. but it is not vital. The beaches.. they are not.. material the friends are not.. and the girlfriend.. beauty is more then skin deep.. but she is also beautiful on the outside.. there I am a lucky man.. and given the choice I would take her over any home... However that would have to be an odd choice to come up.. I would like a family.. and I will have one. providing my mobile phone has not sterilised me. congratulations on your family though... I became an uncle recently.. and they are a joy.. I wish your family all the best in health and happiness... Its only your property portfolio I wish to destruct (joke) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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