Thanks For The 7.6%

[Time to raise the rents.]

Evenin again.

I've been meaning to say thanks for a while now. But Rightmoves 7.6% for Wandsworth has given me the opportunity.

As I wrote some time ago, you people need people like me. I invest your capital, that which you deposit with the bank. Without you, I wouldn't be able to borrow the money I have borrowed. Without me, you wouldn't have anyone to pay the interest bill.

You see money isn't just parked in the bank, you pay it in, it goes out to work for you. It goes out to work with people like me.

This my friends is why you will never win as a depositor. You think your money is safely tucked in the bank, while in reality it is out doing what you don't want it to do, risking itself on future growth.

So here is my chance to thank you kindly for allowing me the honour of earning the 7.6% HPI this past year. You may leave your thanks here for the 0.1% to 5% returns you got from me after the bank took their cut.

Now while this thread may seem inflamatory, please realise that I am trying to be an educator, so I feel this has a direct bearing on house prices. You see if people like me felt you wanted too high a return for your passive input, we either would raise prices (rents in my case) to compensate for your higher return, or we would choose not to borrow & you would eventually lower your expected return.

[Randall Herbert]

Sounds like the ANGER Phase has well and trully kicked in now?

Whats it feel like to have spent all this time on HPC TTRTR and find out that your thinly disguised perma bull comments have had no effect at all on preventing the CRASH you so feared?

Your Capital gains must have taken a real hit lately, but of course your in it for the long term aren't you?

WAAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!

[Dames]

Evenin again.

I've been meaning to say thanks for a while now. But Rightmoves 7.6% for Wandsworth has given me the opportunity.

As I wrote some time ago, you people need people like me. I invest your capital, that which you deposit with the bank. Without you, I wouldn't be able to borrow the money I have borrowed. Without me, you wouldn't have anyone to pay the interest bill.

You see money isn't just parked in the bank, you pay it in, it goes out to work for you. It goes out to work with people like me.

This my friends is why you will never win as a depositor. You think your money is safely tucked in the bank, while in reality it is out doing what you don't want it to do, risking itself on future growth.

So here is my chance to thank you kindly for allowing me the honour of earning the 7.6% HPI this past year. You may leave your thanks here for the 0.1% to 5% returns you got from me after the bank took their cut.

Now while this thread may seem inflamatory, please realise that I am trying to be an educator, so I feel this has a direct bearing on house prices. You see if people like me felt you wanted too high a return for your passive input, we either would raise prices (rents in my case) to compensate for your higher return, or we would choose not to borrow & you would eventually lower your expected return.

May I just say you bring a smile to my face on the back of a dull day TTRTR.

Do I have to thank you for 40%+ on GWP and 30%+ on OMG as well?

Dames

[music man]

Many people seem to think that a HPC has never hapened and never will.

Well it has, is and will continue to do so. Markets fluctuate as people want more money and invest, even at the top of a crest.

Re: your gains. I was looking to get a house last June when I became financially able, this would have cost me £650 p.mth mortgage +£100 council tax for a not too hot £100K house.

So £13.5K better off with house prices in some eyes dropping 16 months consecutively, lets say £5K over that period.

18 months down the line I have endebted myself £18.5K less and next year this may go to £35 - 40K.

Paid back at £1.80 on the pound = £63 - £72K less debt for this wait and you recommend I do what with my money? If making it work is what you mean then I can think of better deals than the one described here.

I only wish I knew what to do with it but with things as they are I'm O.K. and content.

You know even with those facts I still want to buy at times but cannot bring myself to so financially inept.

[boom_and_bust]

Evenin again.

I've been meaning to say thanks for a while now. But Rightmoves 7.6% for Wandsworth has given me the opportunity.

As I wrote some time ago, you people need people like me. I invest your capital, that which you deposit with the bank. Without you, I wouldn't be able to borrow the money I have borrowed. Without me, you wouldn't have anyone to pay the interest bill.

You see money isn't just parked in the bank, you pay it in, it goes out to work for you. It goes out to work with people like me.

This my friends is why you will never win as a depositor. You think your money is safely tucked in the bank, while in reality it is out doing what you don't want it to do, risking itself on future growth.

So here is my chance to thank you kindly for allowing me the honour of earning the 7.6% HPI this past year. You may leave your thanks here for the 0.1% to 5% returns you got from me after the bank took their cut.

Now while this thread may seem inflamatory, please realise that I am trying to be an educator, so I feel this has a direct bearing on house prices. You see if people like me felt you wanted too high a return for your passive input, we either would raise prices (rents in my case) to compensate for your higher return, or we would choose not to borrow & you would eventually lower your expected return.

Hi,

You need real business to pay rents. That is why Britain up until the last year or so,has provided a framework for business to operate - with a high currency value to attract international workers, particularly from Euro land and with the added bonus of opt-outs from Euro labour laws - and so support property services. Land is land. Is the land around SW11 and SW18 any different really than a patch of land in Normandy or Andalucia or a city like Geneva or Brussels or Munich? No. Without business, services and industry, no one can support much of a property market. That is why you can go to the middle of Bulgaria and buy a farmhouse for a month's salary. I would like to balance your statement a little.

Boomer

Edited December 13, 2005 by boom_and_bust

[music man]

Many people seem to think that a HPC has never hapened and never will.

Well it has, is and will continue to do so. Markets fluctuate as people want more money and invest, even at the top of a crest.

Re: your gains. I was looking to get a house last June when I became financially able, this would have cost me £650 p.mth mortgage +£100 council tax for a not too hot £100K house.

So not paying this for 18 months I am £13.5K not out of pocket with house prices in some eyes dropping 16 months consecutively, lets say £5K over that period.

18 months down the line I have endebted myself £18.5K less and next year this may go to £35 - 40K, with further price reductions.

Paid back at £1.80 on the pound = £63 - £72K less debt for this wait and you recommend I do what with my money? If making it work is what you mean then I can think of better deals than the one described here.

I only wish I knew what to do with it but with things as they are I'm O.K. and content.

You know even with those facts I still want to buy at times but cannot bring myself to so financially inept. But it is that drive that counts, it's in many ways psychologocial. Houses are worth what people think they're worth.

I like many appear to have to wait and once again with this countries financial instability may benefit quite some from it.

But I think you'll be O.K., or at least I hope so. It's amazing how perspectives can be so at odds yet right for different people.

All I can say is that the motivators for keeping prices high have been dropped, i.e. sipps and tax breaks for lower value housing now to be pooled and taxed at that total value. With this big positive for the market prices were still dropping.

This I believe was slowing the slump in prices as manufacturing, high street, and national financial issues are strong.

Also houses are ridiculously overpriced, what happened to 3.5 x average wage, last media report was at 8.

Whatever it is it's too steep.

So when people can afford housing I guess they will, I certainly will.

And instead of a £100K mortgage 18 months ago I am hoping for a £50 one next year.

[BoredTrainBuilder]

Sounds like the ANGER Phase has well and trully kicked in now?

I realise that the HPC cliche is itself becoming a cliche, but no matter, this is a pearler: 'the anger phase is kicking in'.

[Time to raise the rents.]

What are you lot angry with the returns you got?

4% - inflation - tax is at least keeping your head above water.

I'm thanking you for the 7.6% growth you were willing to give up to get that return.

[Guest Time 2 raise Interest Rates]

You see money isn't just parked in the bank, you pay it in, it goes out to work for you. It goes out to work with people like me.

Haven't you gone to Sweden yet? If it goes out to work for people

like you, no wonder everyone's converting their cash into gold.

Rents, didn't you know buy-to-lets so 2002.

[Time to raise the rents.]

Gold is so speculative. It has no real value. You can't eat it, it doesn't keep you warm, it requires storage at your cost, it can be stolen without trace. All you can do with it is trade it for other goods or cash.

Property. Mmmmm, you can live in it, if not, you can rent it out. It pays you in it's implied return to you, or rental return. You can also trade it for goods or cash. But why would you when inflation guarantees that building a replacement house will cost more in the future & therefore the value of your property will rise as long as inflation exists?

[BandWagon]

Quite frankly TTRTR I agree with your method of predicting future price rises.

If houses have risen by 7% a year for the last 25 years, then if you predict a 7% rise next year on average you're going to be right.

Unlike the likes of Nationwide and Halifax, who's only ability with regard to the prediction of future house price movements is to get them completely and utterly wrong.

However, with your due regard for history held so high for us all to see, you must be well aware that house prices are now at ludicrous levels against similar historical averages (I refer to prices to earnings and prices to rents), from which they have historically fallen severely back into line.

Something we can all look forward to, landlords included.

Edited December 13, 2005 by BandWagon

[boom_and_bust]

What are you lot angry with the returns you got?

4% - inflation - tax is at least keeping your head above water.

I'm thanking you for the 7.6% growth you were willing to give up to get that return.

Hi TTRTR,

Come on now, you're just embarassing yourself now. Let it go! BTL was THE investment 7-10 years ago. Now? It's small fry. You're begining to look like a Mr creme-brulee from Royston-Vasey, all dolled up in your flared pants, satin-ruffled shirt, paltform soles, kipper tie and medallion, reliving former glories while everyone else has moved on. BTL was the lazy man's game until Gordon decision to kick it into touch. I'm sure Richard Branson doesn't sit in the boardroom saying "I know, stuff all that Virgin stuff, let's get into BTL bedsits and 2-bedder "exec" apparts in Canary Warf". That's where THE action is. No, of course he doesn't! So, here's hoping this faded, washed up thread drifts to the bottom of the stack.....

Boomer

Edited December 13, 2005 by boom_and_bust

[Time to raise the rents.]

However, with your due regard for history held so high for us all to see, you must be well aware that house prices are now at ludicrous levels against similar historical averages (I refer to prices to earnings and prices to rents), from which they have historically fallen severely back into line.

Knowing how high housing inflation has been over recent years, we can look forward to a very nice correction to bring things back into line.

I'm just amazed that you still can't see it coming.

Where you guys have all got it so wrong, along with Roger Bootle & all the other doom-mongers, is that things have changed. The AST and the emergence of BTL lending has adjusted the playing field.

I don't deny bubbles can exist even though things have changed, especially on local levels when people assume that properties in all parts should rise at the same level & rush off to buy in some obscure location.

When you lot acknowledge that THA 1988 and 1996 changed the playing field, you'll be on your way to understanding that the HPC isn't due yet.

Hi TTRTR,

Come on now, you're just embarassing yourself now. Let it go! BTL was THE investment 7-10 years ago. Now? It's small fry. You're begining to look like a Mr creme-brulee from Royston-Vasey, all dolled up in your flared pants, satin-ruffled shirt, paltform soles, kipper tie and medallion, reliving former glories while everyone else has moved on. BTL was the lazy man's game until Gordon decision to kick it into touch. I'm sure Richard Branson doesn't sit in the boardroom saying "I know, stuff all that Virgin stuff, let's get into BTL bedsits and 2-bedder "exec" apparts in Canary Warf". That's where THE action is. No, of course he doesn't! So, here's hoping this faded, washed up thread drifts to the bottom of the stack.....

Boomer

Small fry!!!!

That 7.6% seems like small fry to you, but calculate in on a £3million pound+ portfolio.

Did you earn that this year?

[MarkyB]

What are you lot angry with the returns you got?

4% - inflation - tax is at least keeping your head above water.

I'm thanking you for the 7.6% growth you were willing to give up to get that return.

hang on... 93.4% of asking price... is that your 7.6% growth...

Tell ya what, come to birmingham tonight... ill show you my growth if you show me yours...

PMSL...

[London Landlady]

Where you guys have all got it so wrong, along with Roger Bootle & all the other doom-mongers, is that things have changed. The AST and the emergence of BTL lending has adjusted the playing field.

I don't deny bubbles can exist even though things have changed, especially on local levels when people assume that properties in all parts should rise at the same level & rush off to buy in some obscure location.

When you lot acknowledge that THA 1988 and 1996 changed the playing field, you'll be on your way to understanding that the HPC isn't due yet.

Small fry!!!!

That 7.6% seems like small fry to you, but calculate in on a £3million pound+ portfolio.

Did you earn that this year?

Do you include your own home in the portfolio or is it excluding the one you live in?

[Guest Time 2 raise Interest Rates]

But why would you when inflation guarantees that building a replacement house will cost more in the future & therefore the value of your property will rise as long as inflation exists?

Bit of a grey area this one. My best pal, is a site agent, has worked

for all the major building companies and I'm also connected to the

building trade. The thing is, I know for sure, you can build a 4 bed

detached in the current climate for around £125,000, granted this

doesn't include the land which obviously is a large percentage of the

total price, but as this varies greatly on location let's say average

land price is £150,000 that makes a £275,000 total. Builders are

currently selling 2 bed flats in some locations for this amount which

is a total rip off and a 4 bed detached house, again it depends on

the area, but lets say £450,000. This is dragging on a bit, the

point I'm trying to make is I'm pretty sure you could build a 4 bed

detached house in 10-15 years time for £450,000 and still make

a profit if inflation stays below 2% as the BoE plan.

[boom_and_bust]

Small fry!!!!

That 7.6% seems like small fry to you, but calculate in on a £3million pound+ portfolio.

Did you earn that this year?

Easily. And I have a bigger willy than you. At this moment I am waving my hand around with my thumb on my nose singing ner-ner-ner-ner-ner!

Boomer

Edited December 13, 2005 by boom_and_bust

[Rapid Descent]

Funny how you crow about this on this particular month - the rightmove index is very noisy at the London borough level, and Dec 04 happened to be a low month.

Of course an equally valid comparison is to look at the market "peak" - July 04 in London - since then you've made a stonking 2%. Don't spend it all at once, now, will you.

2% - 18mths of inflation - 18 mths of tax = ???

(PS. There is an even worse month for comparison than July 04, so I let you off lightly )

Edited December 13, 2005 by Rapid Descent

[Badlad1967]

Easily. And I have a bigger willy than you.

Boomer

Bigger than Mr "Hung Like A Herring"??

I should bloody well hope so!

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

That 7.6% seems like small fry to you, but calculate in on a £3million pound+ portfolio.

Did you earn that this year?

Is that net of mortgage liabilities?

[boom_and_bust]

Is that net of mortgage liabilities?

Hi,

Yes, this is a good point. BTL is a very risky investment at this time with many lenders withdrawing from loaning into the sector and an oversupply of BTL providers, many likely to wish to offload over the coming year due to their miscalculation in trying to second Guess the chancellor before any decisions had been reached or laws passed. Classic speculator frenzied behaviour in a bubble market.

For greater levels of risk a higher return is required. So, for example, if you were earning that kind of return on blue chip equities or bonds, maybe it could be ok (if a little low). If however one is investing in post-sipps BTL or non-listed shares or companies envloved with deep-sea speclative oil-field surveying, mining on the moon, etc.,one would require a far higher return for the greater level of risk.

Boomer

Edited December 13, 2005 by boom_and_bust

[Time to raise the rents.]

Do you include your own home in the portfolio or is it excluding the one you live in?

That's excluding my two places. 1 is a flat in SW11, the other a house in Sweden.

Bit of a grey area this one. My best pal, is a site agent, has worked

for all the major building companies and I'm also connected to the

building trade. The thing is, I know for sure, you can build a 4 bed

detached in the current climate for around £125,000, granted this

doesn't include the land which obviously is a large percentage of the

total price, but as this varies greatly on location let's say average

land price is £150,000 that makes a £275,000 total. Builders are

currently selling 2 bed flats in some locations for this amount which

is a total rip off and a 4 bed detached house, again it depends on

the area, but lets say £450,000. This is dragging on a bit, the

point I'm trying to make is I'm pretty sure you could build a 4 bed

detached house in 10-15 years time for £450,000 and still make

a profit if inflation stays below 2% as the BoE plan.

Not sure what your point is. Did you factor in wage inflation and planning difficulties as well? Building is very labour intensive & planning is a problem for some areas.

Is that net of mortgage liabilities?

That's HPI CTT, so a measurement of my houses escaping their mortgages. If I were to include mortgage liabilities, I would also have to include rental incomes & therefore have to add more to the 7.6%.

[Bubble Pricker]

What are you lot angry with the returns you got?

4% - inflation - tax is at least keeping your head above water.

I'm thanking you for the 7.6% growth you were willing to give up to get that return.

Why don't you go and sell one of your properties for 7.6% more than it was valued for last year. And report back to us when you have actually completed the sale. Perhaps then we will believe RM's fantasy figures.

[BuyingBear]

Evenin again.

I've been meaning to say thanks for a while now. But Rightmoves 7.6% for Wandsworth has given me the opportunity.

As I wrote some time ago, you people need people like me. I invest your capital, that which you deposit with the bank. Without you, I wouldn't be able to borrow the money I have borrowed. Without me, you wouldn't have anyone to pay the interest bill.

You see money isn't just parked in the bank, you pay it in, it goes out to work for you.

So the whole world of banking and investment is limited to deposit accounts and highly leveraged property? I didn't know property was the only asset class, but I won't burst your bubble, the NIKKEI 225 has returned over 23% in the last three months alone, these are actual returns in a liquid market.

If you want us to praise your paltry 7.6% annual return then fine, but others here will pity you for chasing after an underperforming asset class for purely dogmatic reasons, not least because that 7.6% is unrealised, in fact by the time these figures were published a significant chunk has undoubtedly evaporated, kind of makes a 15 min delayed ticker look swift.

You remind me of the people who were buying dead dotcom shares after the crash just before they continued to plummet down to zero. The smart money has already moved into new areas, good luck to you though.

Edited December 13, 2005 by BuyingBear

[Time to raise the rents.]

Funny how you crow about this on this particular month - the rightmove index is very noisy at the London borough level, and Dec 04 happened to be a low month.

Of course an equally valid comparison is to look at the market "peak" - July 04 in London - since then you've made a stonking 2%. Don't spend it all at once, now, will you.

2% - 18mths of inflation - 18 mths of tax = ???

(PS. There is an even worse month for comparison than July 04, so I let you off lightly )

You are welcome to post your source, a link to it that is.