interestrateripoff Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Gove: Wealthy lawyers should do more free work for the justice system Legal profession needs to "help protect access to justice for all" I wonder how much free work Gove does for the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Wealthy lawyers should have their funding cut by 80%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Wealthy lawyers should have their funding cut by 80%. I think the lawyers Gove is talking about are private, not state employed. They can charge whatever the market rate is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I think the lawyers Gove is talking about are private, not state employed. They can charge whatever the market rate is. So you dont think lawyers rates are being hiked by government subsidies, therefore setting the price pricevate clients are forced to pay....a bit like Housing Benefit for the Lawyers really!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26472809 http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/dec/03/criminal-barristers-action-legal-aid-cuts £2B hand out to lawyers ever year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) Sounds like Gove wants lawyers to work for free so that the government can give that spare money to the bankers as bailouts. At least it's better than everyone else having to subsidise the bailouts. It must be one of the policies that Osborne said would make the UK the richest country in the world in 30 years. Edited June 23, 2015 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Sounds like Gove wants lawyers to work for free so that the government can give that spare money to the bankers as bailouts. At least it's better than everyone else having to subsidise the bailouts. It must be one of the policies that Osborne said would make the UK the richest country in the world in 30 years. The lawyers and bankers go hand in hand. Both parasitic professions we could do without subsidizing. I am taxed to help pay £2B to lawyers.....let them take a pay cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I certainly think legal aid should be abolished and as part as being granted the priviledge of being able to practice law and take advantage of the courts system lawyers should have to legally do a certain percentage of work pro bono or at reduced cost. At least that way it has to be reflected in their fees to paying customers, allowing some semblance of a free market to operate, instead of the mess that is legal aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The lawyers and bankers go hand in hand. Both parasitic professions we could do without subsidizing. I am taxed to help pay £2B to lawyers.....let them take a pay cut. There's 2 solicitors in my family who are renter-savers into their early and mid 30s and they're not on mega money, and no fee income is covered by any legal-aid (as far as I know). If we're handing out pay-cuts, put yourself in line for them too + some care in the community overtime. I've spent £1,500 on a specialist solicitors fees this year and don't feel ripped off. Protects me for trouble down the line. It's when trouble comes and people are annoyed they've landed themselves in it and need solicitors to help them, that they begin blaming solicitors for trouble they've got themselves into by themselves. You may have points, but not for all solicitors. Cut the legal aid, but don't blame solicitors for everything, when there's plenty of clients who would have been right in it, other than for their solicitors pulling them out of trouble / recovering money on bad deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) There's 2 solicitors in my family who are renter-savers into their early and mid 30s and they're not on mega money, and no fee income is covered by any legal-aid (as far as I know). Still, the rates are being underpinned by legal aid. If legal aid paid worse rates would drop regardless, just like rents. My landlord doesn't get housing benefit from me but I;m pretty sure the rent locally is set via HB not earnings. If we're handing out pay-cuts, put yourself in line for them too + some care in the community overtime. Not had a pay rise in a decade, so effectively a 30% pay cut, or probably 50% relative to housing. I already do care in the community, helping the mentally ill, I tell you to clam down frequently. Edited June 23, 2015 by TheCountOfNowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65243 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So you dont think lawyers rates are being hiked by government subsidies, therefore setting the price pricevate clients are forced to pay....a bit like Housing Benefit for the Lawyers really!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26472809 http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/dec/03/criminal-barristers-action-legal-aid-cuts £2B hand out to lawyers ever year. A properly funded legal system is vital if you want to live in a country which respects the rule of law. There is not much point in the law providing protection against bullying by the state and other powerful organisations and individuals if those who might suffer from bullying can't enforce their rights. This is true in all aspects of life. What is alarming is the extent to which attacks by an already over-mighty executive on Human Rights legalisation, judicial review and legal funding is cheered on by people who don't understand what is happening. In the context of housing, those who complain that the the law does not protect tenants are quite simply wrong. There is plenty of protection. But very few tenants are able to enforce it. Paring back funding for the legal profession will not make things any better. I'd be interested to hear in what sense they can be described as parasites! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65243 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Still, the rates are being underpinned by legal aid. If legal aid paid worse rates would drop regardless, just like rents. I suspect you don't know much about this. Legal aid had been slashed. All that's happened is that firms have gone out of business, or dramatically reduced doing the sort of work that attracted legal aid. The fat cat lawyers who are the betes noirs of the Daily Mail are utterly unaffected by this. We are simply heading for a greatly reduced legal profession, which will increasingly only represent those who can afford it. If you think this will help you, you are either rich or ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 .....like lots of things, an industry is build upon people needing/requiring a service, the needy, the desperate and the dependent.......best thing is see you will never require that service, if all else fails, see you have good friends that can help provide that service....an exchange of services.... I think they call it back scratching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I suspect you don't know much about this I suspect I do. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11149868/Britain-has-largest-legal-aid-budget-in-Europe-says-report.html " Official study shows British legal aid spending is £2 billion, compared with France’s £290 million, Germany’s £272 million and a European average of just £97 million" Edited June 23, 2015 by TheCountOfNowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 A properly funded legal system is vital if you want to live in a country which respects the rule of law. Did you type that with a straight face ? Rates should be set by what people can/want to afford, not by forcefully taking peoples money off them and subsidizing a given industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Did you type that with a straight face ? Rates should be set by what people can/want to afford, not by forcefully taking peoples money off them and subsidizing a given industry. Exactly.....like vets and dentists......no insurance no way can pay......thousands more could and would pay if it was within their ability to pay, when it is not they go without or find innovative alternatives..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Still, the rates are being underpinned by legal aid. If legal aid paid worse rates would drop regardless, just like rents. My landlord doesn't get housing benefit from me but I;m pretty sure the rent locally is set via HB not earnings. Not had a pay rise in a decade, so effectively a 30% pay cut, or probably 50% relative to housing. I already do care in the community, helping the mentally ill, I tell you to clam down frequently. Not for the solicitors I know - they don't do any legal aid work (maybe some commercial CFAs are partly covered, I don't know for sure, but they don't do many.. most seem to be insurance backed from what I've picked up). They're as priced out as anyone, in this market, and probably work harder than most too (10-12 hour days, sometimes going into office at weekends.. no overtime or extra fees charged - they get a salary, no bonuses eitehr - to stay on top of their files). Maybe take it up with equity-partners at the top earning lot more. Cut legal aid. Doesnt matter to solicitors I know. They're renter-savers. They'll happily accept less pay if it means house prices are much cheaper, with less velocity of money in the market. Top-earning barristers and solicitors could even be asked to make financial contributions, Ministry of Justice sources indicated. That I can agree with. LOL - my sanity is just within acceptable deviations, for now, vs this market. (Wow - what a ringing endorsement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Exactly.....like vets and dentists......no insurance no way can pay......thousands more could and would pay if it was within their ability to pay, when it is not they go without or find innovative alternatives..... That's the fella. Some people on here clamoring for fairer house prices but the don't mind being forced to pay MASSIVE solicitor fees for other people. We still don't have street lights on at night. F*** THAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 That's the fella. Some people on here clamoring for fairer house prices but the don't mind being forced to pay MASSIVE solicitor fees for other people. We still don't have street lights on at night. F*** THAT. Look after your teeth - find good NHS dentist. Don't take on animals as pets you can't afford to look after. We had a dog and found a vet who didn't rip us off. Don't get yourself into legal trouble. Perhaps take legal advice at the beginning to protect your position, rather than seek legal advice when you've landed yourself in trouble. A man is flying in a hot air balloon when he realises he is lost. He reduces his altitude and spots a man in a field below. He lowers the balloon toward the man and shouts to him, “Excuse me, can you help me? I am late to meet a friend, but I don’t know where I am.”The man below says, “I’m happy to help. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees N. latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees W. longitude.” After a brief pause, the balloonist declares: “You must be a solicitor.” “I am” replies the man. “How did you know?” “Well,” says the balloonist, “everything you have told me I am sure is technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is I am still lost.” The man below responds, “Indeed. And you … You must be a client.” “Why, yes, I am,” replies the balloonist, “how in the world did you know?” “Well,” says the man, “you don’t know where you are, or where you are going. You have made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met, but now it is somehow my fault.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65243 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I suspect I do. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11149868/Britain-has-largest-legal-aid-budget-in-Europe-says-report.html " Official study shows British legal aid spending is £2 billion, compared with Frances £290 million, Germanys £272 million and a European average of just £97 million" Hi CoN, I suspect you don't. Google the difference between adversarial and inquisitorial legal systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65243 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Did you type that with a straight face ? Rates should be set by what people can/want to afford, not by forcefully taking peoples money off them and subsidizing a given industry. If agree with you for some industries. But there are a few for which this doesn't make sense. They are vital for a properly functioning civilised society. I'd include medicine, public transport and law amongst them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hi CoN, I suspect you don't. Google the difference between adversarial and inquisitorial legal systems. I'm all for changing from an adversarial system to an inquisitorial one. Cheaper and faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinAndPlatonic Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Any sort of democracy, favours those that have the most money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 If agree with you for some industries other than mine . Age old problem that one. really, TAXATION is THE problem in this country. We are being taxed 50-70% of our income in direct and indirect taxes with most of it going to the public sector and the governments preferred industries. The people in charge of the money pot really dont want to admit they've gone too far and need to stop handing out other peoples money to their "friends" Enough is enough. Cut all the subsidies. Cut all the benefits. Give desperate people food and shelter and healthcare. Let everyone else pay their own way. You and yours are NOT my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 That's the fella. Some people on here clamoring for fairer house prices but the don't mind being forced to pay MASSIVE solicitor fees for other people. We still don't have street lights on at night. F*** THAT. ....there is competition in conveyancing.....their fees are not particularly high, seeing they do basic mundane work, only tying ends together and communication between buyer and seller agents, not an onerous job, fairly straight forward and not of high cost, much of it can be done yourself such as searches...... stamp duty, surveyors, estate agents and removals can come more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) estate agents and removals can come more expensive. See, that's what happens when we are all forced to subsidies a parasitic industry ( via FLS/HTB/HTB2/Low Interst rates ). Edited June 23, 2015 by TheCountOfNowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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